A few years back I got invited to a wedding in California. A very good friend of mine was marrying his love—who just so happened to be a pastor at a Christian Church.
I went to their wedding, which was small, touching, and beautiful. While I was there I met some of their friends and I learned a lot about their church—the First Christian Church of Orange.
One thing that struck me immediately was that Olivia, the bride, went out of her way to make sure that she respected and understood my Buddhist beliefs, and wanted to make sure that I was comfortable at her Christian wedding—something no Christian in my experience had ever done for me. I was quick to ensure my friend and his bride-to-be that there wouldn’t be any issues. I was totally awestruck at the fact that they even considered my feelings in the matter. It was very humbling and a striking turn of tables, as generally Buddhists in America have to make sure to explain or apologize to their Christian friends and ensure their comfort in awkward situations like weddings and funerals.
I tell you that anecdote to set the stage for the kind of church that Olivia presides over. Over the time I spent in Orange with the newlyweds, I came to have a great deal of respect for their church. They were openly tolerant of everyone, regardless of race, background, and (most strikingly) sexual orientation. They had many openly gay congregants.
The church doesn’t just pay lip service to being “open”, either. In getting to know my friend’s new wife, she used her convictions and biblical knowledge to explain exactly why her church believes that Jesus Christ was, above all else, a tolerant and loving man. Their mission was only to share Christ’s love of everyone.
One of the friends I met while in Orange was Michelle. She is also a member of the church. She writes a blog about being a single Christian mom and today’s post, on Valentine’s Day, really struck me as capturing the spirit of the church.
The post is called “Be Loud in Love“. Reading it brought me back to my trip to Orange and was a refreshing reminder, in a world that is filled with news of hatred, violence, and intolerance, there are indeed loving and kind Christians out there. This particular passage struck me:
There are some Christians who “love the sinner, hate the sin.” This seems to me like a backhanded insult, that the Christian does not love the whole person, but instead they love who they, the Christian, want the ”sinner” to be. You can’t only love someone’s potential, you have to love their reality, too. That’s like saying “I love the thin person inside of you.” This idea is not love, it is simply tolerance.
I know a lot of Buddhists have, if not outright hostility, a general distaste for Christianity—in a pushy Christian society like America, it’s not hard to see why. Just try to remember our own philosophy of loving kindness and let’s try to practice a little tolerance of our own.
I know some wonderful open hearted and open minded Christians. ,,, and also a couple who maybe aren't, but who genuinely love my poor lost soul just the same.
This is in California.
A good quote from a blog I follow:
A: No no-this looks better!
B: No no-this is better!
C: No no! Can't you see it? This has to be the better looking one! ...
Who is the best judge? Who has the "right" taste? Is there a "proper" preference? A thousand sentient beings (beings with feelings) have a thousand different standards because they have a thousand different sets of karma and inclinations. The wise argue not over the unimportant and frivolous because they know there will be no fruitful conclusion. The wisest judge is probably one who does not judge, especially for trivial matters.
You just have to know where to look.
Thanks for sharing!
There is a highly vocal but tiny minority who want all this to stop though. They see the CofE shrinking at an alarming rate while the media hypes up the increase in radical Islam and think that is the way to go. Unfortunately it is easy to get backing for their stance from some of the more intolerant churches around the world as they tend to see tolerance as tantamount to paganism. I suppose the message is - if you have a laid-back church in your area make them feel appreciated.
I think you could argue that the C of E has a duty to be inclusive because they are effectively the official state religion in the UK.
Spiny
I hurt a lot of people's feelings and I regret that. . . But I grew and I reaize that the more you learn and attain knowledge, tempered with open compassion, the more you grow.
But there are open. Christian, Jews and Muslims who want to understand rather than be understood
well done for practising Right Speech.
i sincerely hope that by staying with us, and joining as a member, you will come to understand that while your experience is of instructive value to you - it is not everybody's experience.
and while we all accept that certain factions of certain religions, are, to put it mildly, questionable, there is much to be said for permitting your mind to stay open - as was the point of this thread - and examining the experiences, anecdotes and stories others have to tell.
People are people wherever you go.
And it would appear that some people, are more human than others.
:)
I have Christian friends, who know I'm Buddhist.
I'm sure many other members here, share that state.... and honestly - ?
They're absolutely super......
Really.
Are they?
a friend is a person who can see right through you - yet still enjoy the show.
anyone who might hold you in judgement against your self, is perhaps looking through a distorted perspective.....
I have friends, a married couple, who attend a church that set up a program to invite representatives of other religions to speak to the congregation about their traditions. One of my friends is Buddhist, the wife is a former pastor of the church. The Buddhist took a great interest in Islam, doing a lot of research because he felt it was important for the public to understand this religion, in light of the politics of the day (*ahem*). From what I understand, this was not a superficial introduction to other traditions, it went in depth, and was very successful.
Tolerance, even goodwill, is out there. Maybe if you open your heart, you can find it. (Or if you move to NY or California, haha.)
(As a mod, i can see your location in your IP number, but I'm not revealing anything to anyone, in public....)
The thing is, practising Buddhism in public, isn't all that difficult - providing you don't refer to it as Buddhism.
The 4 Noble Truths, the 8Fold Path and the 5 Precepts contain nothing, anywhere specifically, which allude to Buddhism.
They're just damn fine ways to live from day to day.....
And if you follow them, and you practice their suggestion, then it seems that you would - and could - fit in anywhere.
I think it's the Christian Right's dominance in Congress at various points in the last couple of decades that has brought extremists out of the woodwork and given them a sense of legitimacy, thus creating the overall impression that the US is a hotbed of fundamentalism. This is not the US I live in, though. There is another US that often doesn't get represented in conversations like this.
edit: Omar: you say "my religious observance is personal". It's nobody's business. That's a nosy, rude question. Or, more lightheartedly and perhaps more effectively, you could respond: "Why? Are you taking a survey?" That should take care of it. ;)
So Buddhists don't pray as such, but they practice certain rituals and recite Mantras as devotional practices designed to deepen their Refuge in the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sangha.
You do that on a sunday morning , and you could reply 'yes' - and not be lying.... :)
I'm going to paraphrase Jesus who was angry at the way the Jews fasted. He told his followers not to be like the hypocrites, who attend temple to be seen, threw ashes on their faces and wailed publicly... instead he (Jesus) wanted them to fast and worship inwardly. To go inside the inner room and shut the door. To pray in secret because God hears in secret.
Many Christians attend church from home by television. There is no difference watching Joe olsteen or another Christian preacher at home or in person, IMO.
If you don't want to lie to your family and friends, don't. I understand that you don't want or feel like you can't come out. I wouldn't if I were you, until you have some definitive answers to your personal spiritual questions. Any questions concerning your belief at this moment can be answered with tact, without hurting anyone, including yourself.
Please tell me you know how to be both vague and tactful. On Sundays you could say to their inquiry "I have to meet a friend who is interested in religion and philosophy, we might go to his place of worship. . "
This is not a lie..your friend is YOU, who is interested in religion and philosophy and anyplace could be a place of worship...PARK, HOUSE, CAR, STARBUCKS.
you see? The only reason I suggest this is because I'm afraid that you might be kicked out of your house or ostracized or possibly forced to return to the "flock" without spending needed time asking yourself and seeking answers to your questions.
With love.
I guess you can do as your family wishes to prevent conflicts, and still practice the dharma at the same time. When you are old enough and able to leave your parents house, then it is all up to you. However, if you continue doing as your family wishes, keeping a smiley face etc, but have anger, hate and guilt inside, this will only cause you a lot of suffering within. The dharma has ways of dealing with that, I wish you good luck :)
I still feel it wasn't an entirely bad decision to close it though.....
No one that begins with "you are going to hell for a,b and c "
We don't know that hell is really a place since no one has been there. They say this in ignorance because if such a real place exists, they would regret saying such things. If that horrible place existed I would not even want hitler, Castro, Nero, fill in the blank...in that place.
Can't learn from the ignorant or spiritual blind.
Ah, oh...any person who is not atleast half as curious as you are about their faith...curious nature and openness is welcomed with equal amounts of respect and kindness.
No person should try to force conversion on another. Each follow their own path. Religion is not obligatory.
Um, I guess these are my big ones. Why do you think I love humanist and agnostic Buddhist a little more than dogmatic monotheists?
Hope I didn't ramble.
Can I just add something too. If God exist and he knows what religious assholes have done to the gay, lesbian, transgender, bisexual, big curious community...he would not be pleased. And these bullies might be surprised who is and who isn't in hell.
As far as I know, you don't pray with your private parts.
I'm sorry...I have to watch my gay friend cry each year during lent. Not fun. Sorry I rambled.
Nicholas Cage summed it up in ghost rider: second chances are important.
read: "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
It used to be that way, not so much now, but there will always be ignorant people in the world. It doesnt matter wether you are of that faith or any other, I still find people like this to be in need of realizing their own ignorance is disgusting.
When I was old enough to drive, I drove to church, picked up a newsletter as "proof" of attendance and spent an hour at the park reading.
But I think you've got a bit of a predicament on your hands; your social circle is pressuring/expecting you to share the same emotion (hatred) as them towards Christianity, but you really don't feel the same way. It's hard to be around friends when they're like that, but in my experience, things eventually mellow out.
Most of the people who have given accounts of religious discrimination on this forum have been American. As modern America as we know it, was founded by the Religious Pilgrim Fathers (i would add there had to be some mothers in there as well....) a theistic religion seems to be the one underpinning religious opinion throughout the country.... and it would appear some parts of the USA are more tolerant and open than others.....
And I'd also like to reiterate that this thread is a breath of fresh air, after some of the strange ones that have sprouted up recently. :)
What I'm trying to say is that you will find tolerant people everywhere, but that does not make their belief tolerant. Chances are they have conveniently forgotten all those verses in their holy text that promote intolerance because they have higher/more-relevant morals than the ones found in a nearly 2000 year old textbook. Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and various other religions DO have a bone to pick with me because they are used to justify hatred, bigotry, and various atrocities inflicted to populations throughout the centuries. It's difficult for me to ascertain whether these people would just admit to being the self-righteous heathens they are or whether they would merely find another platform to protect themselves on. I do recognize some benefits of religion, but the same benefits can be reaped from any community.
One of the reasons I began my own personal spiritual journey was to find a belief system that coincided in harmony with mine. Buddhism is, without a doubt, the closest to being similar to my core values. However, once I realized that I had begun using my values, virtues, and such as the measuring stick, I realized that I already had a belief system. It doesn't have a name or face or followers. It's just me being the best person for society and the individual people I meet.
In essence, I stopped putting myself in a cage. I use my own judgment (however flawed it may be, but what is perfection?) and create my own purpose. I live by the law, and I strive to make all people feel that they belong in society and have equal opportunities within that society.
I believe Buddhism exists because it will help in the near future to unit all faiths.
The end result of the union of all faiths would probably be so generalized that it would be featureless. Since it needs to appease all people in all ways, it would probably not amount to much in terms of substance. At which point we could probably abandon organized religion/faith altogether. But there are good things that organized communities do well like care for the poor and needy, participate in community outreach efforts, raise awareness for societal issues, and others.
People naturally seek those of similar faith/belief. Even if you were to bring all faiths together, the people within this New Religion would seek out those with stronger similarities because that's just what we tend to do. That's why there are cliques in high school, social groups, and even political parties. So you would have ways in dissecting this New Religion that people will find. As humans, we seem to just love to find ways to put things into smaller and smaller subgroups by labeling and such.
Christian churches are very vocal and try to influence public policy on things like:
Gay marriage
Religion in public schools
Ethics classes in schools
Abortion drugs
Scientific advancements. eg: stem cell research
Unfortunately i notice they are less vocal, although they similarly disagree, on things like compassionate treatment of refugees.
Now this i believe is different to universal principles such as love, compassion and respect for life which buddhists tend to live with much less hypocricy.
But on the last paragraph...well, try living in Thailand and see if you still think Buddhists operate based on love, compassion, and respect for life...and be sure to see how the Buddhist-oriented government treats the Muslims in the 3 Muslim provinces in the south of Thailand (for example, when they locked dozens of young Muslim men in tractor trailer trucks in temperatures well over 100...and many died).
whereas in some christian traditions they justify their bigotry through their direct interpretation of their bible and actually believe they are doing gods work
http://redpillpress.com/retail/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=88&zenid=veqnmj3k7qp9a881nultgo7kr3
pretty cool.
What is the aim or purpose if you will of Buddhism?
So it seems, on the surface, that different religions have different aims; therefore the results should be different. But underneath the dogma and different terminology, I suspect there are similarities.
1. Prayer
2. Meditation
3. The practise of compassion for others.
4. An Ethical lifestyle.
Can you describe to me a typical Orthodox Christian practise?
I agree, there are similar truths to be found for sure.
Though the world around us may be collapsing it is our interior disposition that determines whether we experience it as suffering.
Several years ago I had asked my Buddhist priest a question about karma. He was from Japan, and did not speak English very well, but he told me “Maybe change your feelings, Maybe change your karma”
My Orthodox patron saint, St Silouan the Athonite, taught his disciples to “Keep thy mind in hell, and despair not”.
At its most basic the main practices would include the following, and they of course can be elaborated on extensively. A moral and ethical lifestyle is assumed.
1. Watchfulness
2. Prayer
3. Confession
4. Communion
5. Giving
However, what's interesting? If you travel 35 minutes South? You are in a College town and there are 5 different Buddhist Temples.
So it's not just the area of the country you live in, but your direct community too
ancientfaith.com/specials/christ_the_eternal_tao