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Well Chagdud Tulku Rinpoche was most definitely a great being! I read his Autobiography and it's very nice. He has passed on though, so I don't know, I think it's his Western wife who runs the show now? I don't know anybody who practices under that lineage directly, but I know it's good Nyingmapa, at least Chagdud Tulku Rinpoche taught very good Nyingmapa and was a definitely master of the path.
Well Chagdud Tulku Rinpoche was most definitely a great being! I read his Autobiography and it's very nice. He has passed on though, so I don't know, I think it's his Western wife who runs the show now? I don't know anybody who practices under that lineage directly, but I know it's good Nyingmapa, at least Chagdud Tulku Rinpoche taught very good Nyingmapa and was a definitely master of the path.
Vaj, do you practice Tibetan Buddhism? I mainly follow the Zen path but coming from a Roman Catholic upbringing, i'm a sucker for a god ritual or two. The reason I stayed away from Tibetan was that I didnt want to get hung up on the bells and whistles, but after reading HHDL 'the universe in a single atom' I am gobsmacked by the man's genius.
Vaj, do you practice Tibetan Buddhism? I mainly follow the Zen path but coming from a Roman Catholic upbringing, i'm a sucker for a god ritual or two. The reason I stayed away from Tibetan was that I didnt want to get hung up on the bells and whistles, but after reading HHDL 'the universe in a single atom' I am gobsmacked by the man's genius.
Yes, he is a genuine genius, there is no denying that. I have found that most Tulku Rinpoches are of a higher mental capacity than the rest of us. They master everything from medicine, to different languages, to the complexities of the different lineages within the Vajrayana, they memorize vast amounts of texts, they can cook, make art... etc. etc. I'm completely gobsmacked by the Tibetan Masters... they're for the most part, amazing! Even the ones with some faults like Trungpa Rinpoche was a towering personality filled with vibrant positive energy and creativity.
Anyway... yes, I practice Vajrayana in the Nyingmapa tradition, more specifically Dzogchen. I like the bells and whistles. The bell in fact is a clearing tool to both the mind and environment, it's an old Asian tradition to ring a bell to clear out negative vibrations. The thing about Vajrayana is it's all about enjoying the colors and the wildness of life, but without getting caught up in it. That's what Tantra is about, transforming normal awareness of all the multifariousness of life into liberated perception and celebration. Doing this does include from time to time, very intense retreats into meditation and tantric practice with mantra, mudra and yoga where you do minimalize your physical comfort to a high degree for the sake of refining and disciplining the mind. At least that's what the Masters do. I've done some intense retreats myself, with much benefit.
http://tsegyalgar.org/localcenters/tsegyalgareast/ is over there in Conway, MA. Very nice place that offers places to sleep and you can do retreat practice there. They give plenty of transmissions and they have plenty of group practices, but you have to get transmission first, so you have to call them up. Don't worry, it's mostly all free or very inexpensive. It's a genuine lineage from Tibet. Good stuff!
Vaj, question. I'm still a 'newbuddhist' so forgive my newbieness, but what is the difference between zen and tibetan? is it just the absence, or toning down, of ritual in zen or is it more fundametal?
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
That's like asking what's the difference between a Cedar of Lebanon and a sequoia....:D
Vaj, question. I'm still a 'newbuddhist' so forgive my newbieness, but what is the difference between zen and tibetan? is it just the absence, or toning down, of ritual in zen or is it more fundametal?
I'd like to just clarify that I'm not into calling Tibetan Vajrayana, Tibetan Buddhism. As that makes more solid the Western assumption that this form of Buddhism was created in Tibet. It's a form of North Indian Tantric Buddhism called Vajrayana which was preserved in Tibet and underwent various topical or cosmetic changes, but the deities, the practices, the main scriptures are all from India and are true to their sources. The tulku and terton traditions are the only two new aspects of Vajrayana that took place in Tibet. But, all the teachings of the main lineages are all very true to their Indian sources. Even the Tibetan Book of the Dead is really the Vajrayana Book of the Dead or more precisely the Book of Liberation in Liminality, written by an Indian Vajrayana Master named Padmasambhava, but it was preserved in Tibet through the Tibetan language as well. Also, all the texts that the Tertons reveal were written by Padmasambhava, so they as well are sourced in ancient Indian Vajrayana predating the advent of Vajrayanas introduction to Tibet. Many of the texts the Tertons reveal are written in the Dakini Code Language of ancient Indian lore. I could go on about the different lineages having origins in India, but anyway...
I say this, because Zens' source scriptures are Indian as well and both traditions of Zen and Vajrayana have many of the very same source scriptures as both are Mahayana traditions, so both declare Nagarjuna, Asanga and Vasubhandu as great Indian Buddhas who are the forefathers of very important Mahayana traditions that are core to the teachings of both Vajrayana and Zen Buddhism. Also, Vajrayana is not the only form of Buddhist Tantra, as China as well has Buddhist Tantra with many of the same source scriptures as Vajrayana that deal with transformation methods, with the same deities as well. The main difference between Zen which is not a transformational methodology and Vajrayana are the methods. Vajrayana is a vehicle for transformation, so there are different view points illumined through the teachings about how to transform desire into wisdom, rather than repress it, one liberates it through these various methods. Zen is more about cutting away, which plenty of that is done in Vajrayana as well depending on the individual. But, Zen is more a path without as many methods as it's source is from Chan, which is the Chinese translation of the Sanskrit Dhyan, and this means meditation. So, Zen is mainly a meditative tradition of inverting awareness, or making the awareness subtle through calm abiding and contemplations around this main method. We do that as well in Vajrayana, but there are more methods introduced to the individual in order to facilitate a faster path to Buddhahood. There are also specific contemplations that are not going to be found in Zen scriptures. Of course, the tradition of Koans (which I love by the way) are a Zen invention and you won't find much of that in Vajrayana, but all the roots of both the teachings can be traced back to India.
After all that, I would simply say that Vajrayana has more texts and methods available for the sake of Buddhahood, while Zen is more about basic meditation and contemplation for the sake of insight. Of course there are lineage Masters in Zen with very powerful abilities to transmit wisdom experiences and bliss experiences just like in Vajrayana, but the way these experiences are integrated into the daily life of the individual will have different methods for doing so. Vajrayana is a yogic path, utilizing everything, with yogic postures, yogic breathing techniques, yantras, which are powerful geometric images that convey a contemplative meaning for the sake of changing the way the mind interprets reality. I could go on and on. But, there is a good book which is quite objective and scholarly as Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche is very open about how connected all the different types of Buddhism are.
Both books will show how many similarities there are between Zen and Dzogchen perspectives, even though many methods are different.
You should know that the Dzogchen perspective is not exactly the same as the Vajrayana perspective of all the Vajrayana lineages, but it is the pinnacle teaching in the Nyingmapa tradition of Vajrayana which is the oldest lineage of Vajrayana. Mahamudra which is the pinnacle teaching of the Karma Kagyu one of the branches of the Kagyu lineage has the same perspective with a different set of methods as well.
Anyway, another main difference would be that so far, only Mahamudra and Dzogchen lineages within Buddhism lead to the Rainbow Body
Thanks for the dissertation! I just thought I'd mention that Vietnamese Buddhism also included Vajrayana, and Japan used to have Vajrayana (which came from China), I'm not sure if that tradition's still alive in Japan.
Right, they call it something else in their own language, but the source scriptures are the same Sanskrit Tantric Sutras from India, just translated into the specific language of the region it went to, so many hundreds of years ago.
Basically my point is that Vajrayana is not only practiced in Tibet, it can also be found in Nepal, and plenty of other regions in the planet, but yes, Tibet has the largest source of Vajrayana on the planet, by a massive amount.
V-heart, I'm glad someone posted the history and provenance of Vajrayana. I think this is important to acknowledge. On a concurrent thread, someone's posted that TB (according to a statement I found by HHDL) is based on the Nalanda tradition. But this is a separate influence from Vajrayana, no? Then there's the influence of Indigenous shamanic and animistic beliefs. The roots of TB are complex.
From what I understand, the Tibetan Buddhism tradition is an eclectic mix of many traditions coming together, added with the cultural influence of Tibet. Most certainly the scholarship aspect is influenced by Nalanda and other Buddhist universities India once laid claim to.
Comments
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://www.chagdud.org/&ei=sijgTcbLMMXq0gHM8dDOCg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBwQ7gEwAA&prev=/search?q=Chagdud+Gonpa&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=ivns
Anyway... yes, I practice Vajrayana in the Nyingmapa tradition, more specifically Dzogchen. I like the bells and whistles. The bell in fact is a clearing tool to both the mind and environment, it's an old Asian tradition to ring a bell to clear out negative vibrations. The thing about Vajrayana is it's all about enjoying the colors and the wildness of life, but without getting caught up in it. That's what Tantra is about, transforming normal awareness of all the multifariousness of life into liberated perception and celebration. Doing this does include from time to time, very intense retreats into meditation and tantric practice with mantra, mudra and yoga where you do minimalize your physical comfort to a high degree for the sake of refining and disciplining the mind. At least that's what the Masters do. I've done some intense retreats myself, with much benefit.
Where are you at? I did some practice with Chagdud Gonpa Rigdzin Ling
here in Junction City, CA.
http://blogchagdud.org/rigdzin-ling-events/
I learned under this Lama and recieved Ngondro empowerment from her:
http://blogchagdud.org/about-2/chagdud-gonpa-lamas/lama-choyang/
All the best,
Todd
I say this, because Zens' source scriptures are Indian as well and both traditions of Zen and Vajrayana have many of the very same source scriptures as both are Mahayana traditions, so both declare Nagarjuna, Asanga and Vasubhandu as great Indian Buddhas who are the forefathers of very important Mahayana traditions that are core to the teachings of both Vajrayana and Zen Buddhism. Also, Vajrayana is not the only form of Buddhist Tantra, as China as well has Buddhist Tantra with many of the same source scriptures as Vajrayana that deal with transformation methods, with the same deities as well. The main difference between Zen which is not a transformational methodology and Vajrayana are the methods. Vajrayana is a vehicle for transformation, so there are different view points illumined through the teachings about how to transform desire into wisdom, rather than repress it, one liberates it through these various methods. Zen is more about cutting away, which plenty of that is done in Vajrayana as well depending on the individual. But, Zen is more a path without as many methods as it's source is from Chan, which is the Chinese translation of the Sanskrit Dhyan, and this means meditation. So, Zen is mainly a meditative tradition of inverting awareness, or making the awareness subtle through calm abiding and contemplations around this main method. We do that as well in Vajrayana, but there are more methods introduced to the individual in order to facilitate a faster path to Buddhahood. There are also specific contemplations that are not going to be found in Zen scriptures. Of course, the tradition of Koans (which I love by the way) are a Zen invention and you won't find much of that in Vajrayana, but all the roots of both the teachings can be traced back to India.
After all that, I would simply say that Vajrayana has more texts and methods available for the sake of Buddhahood, while Zen is more about basic meditation and contemplation for the sake of insight. Of course there are lineage Masters in Zen with very powerful abilities to transmit wisdom experiences and bliss experiences just like in Vajrayana, but the way these experiences are integrated into the daily life of the individual will have different methods for doing so. Vajrayana is a yogic path, utilizing everything, with yogic postures, yogic breathing techniques, yantras, which are powerful geometric images that convey a contemplative meaning for the sake of changing the way the mind interprets reality. I could go on and on. But, there is a good book which is quite objective and scholarly as Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche is very open about how connected all the different types of Buddhism are.
http://www.amazon.com/Dzog-Chen-Zen-Namkhai-Norbu/dp/0931892082/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306724692&sr=8-1
But here is a book you can read on it, right now, for free! YAY!
http://davidpaulboaz.org/Stromata/Zen_and_Dzogchen.pdf
Both books will show how many similarities there are between Zen and Dzogchen perspectives, even though many methods are different.
You should know that the Dzogchen perspective is not exactly the same as the Vajrayana perspective of all the Vajrayana lineages, but it is the pinnacle teaching in the Nyingmapa tradition of Vajrayana which is the oldest lineage of Vajrayana. Mahamudra which is the pinnacle teaching of the Karma Kagyu one of the branches of the Kagyu lineage has the same perspective with a different set of methods as well.
Anyway, another main difference would be that so far, only Mahamudra and Dzogchen lineages within Buddhism lead to the Rainbow Body
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_Body
Which for me is saying something quite profound about Dzogchen and Mahamudra!
Sorry, I didn't mean to carry on, but I just couldn't help myself. I hope this stuff helps.
Take care.
Basically my point is that Vajrayana is not only practiced in Tibet, it can also be found in Nepal, and plenty of other regions in the planet, but yes, Tibet has the largest source of Vajrayana on the planet, by a massive amount.