samana sanctuaries

kaci

here is a difficulty i have noticed in the modern world - there is little infrastructure or cultural context for samanas or upasaka. these are traditionally renunciates that enter homelessness and adhere to sila except for those precepts that apply specifically to monastic context. it is a continuation of the samana tradition in which gotama strove for and achieved awakening and is actually supported in buddhadhamma. i believe that this is a valuable tradition and an important mediating position between monastic and lay societies (eg. most kids are more likely to talk to someone in jeans sincerely than a robe and shaved head these days ..).

with that in mind, do people here know of sanctuaries or places where living under a tree and begging for breakfast is ok? (please - i realize that there are homeless people all over, i am thinking of places where it is not either illegal, very dangerous or very much against cultural mores/opinion)

or, is anyone interested in sponsoring (eg. providing land) or starting something like this?

thanks all!

person

or, is anyone interested in sponsoring (eg. providing land) or starting something like this?

I'd like put my name on the waiting list. I've imagined sponsering something like this if I won the lottery, unfortunately I'm just a low income scrub though.

kaci

@person

same here - however, there are other ways to make this kind of thing happen; i am thinking about them more recently. it easily qualifies as a non-profit effort and there are people that would be happy for an opportunity to support such a thing i think (good dana!) but the question is getting it going. i was already involved in something similar in portugal .. would still probably be there except that the owner sold the land so i have experience with this kind of thing but i am (alas) only one little person and don't imagine doing it all meself.

do you have any specifics in mind? for instance, the thai forest tradition is an influence in my own thinking. very, very basic, no frills: eg. no electricity (including batteries ..), plumbing, fancy houses ... rough shelters only if needed, minimal fire heat only if needed, no drugs or alcohol, etc. and a central area for gathering, possibly a simple permanent shelter there. each location would probably also need someone(s) that were committed to staying there and both keeping an eye on things and preferably providing guidance and/or instruction.

thoughts?

kaci

btw - when i mentioned homeless people i was not saying they should be excluded; to the contrary, i believe that anyone should be welcomed as long as they are willing to respect a few simple principles and understand what the focus/purpose of the area is.

person

There is someplace out in the western US somewhere thats on a large piece of land that has some rustic cabins and a caretaker that supports longterm lay meditators, can't remember the name though, and the waiting list and requirements are long.

Jeffrey

Theres a community called weed by mount shasta in northern california that my aunt was a part of. Not sure what kind of culture you are interested. My aunt was a hindu, a buddhist, a native american wise woman, a crystal healer, and a graphics artist. I don't know if it has any more time to meditate I imagine it has either some rent or else a work requirement. She also used to live on an actual commune and worked in the community.

person

Mostly it would be nice to have some support for those people who have a genuine interest in full time practice.

kaci

yes - simply building awareness would really help.

Jeffery, thanks for the suggestion - actually i have been through weed before, its a regular town but with many interesting people. as for culture .. one of the four winds ..
actually i started this thread for people in general - me? i can do this anywhere but i have years of practice; others might benefit from a little less, erm, risky approach than my own. sure, it would be nice for me to know as well but i am more thinking about introducing the idea and making it possible for people that (unlike me) are not quite ready to eat out of and/or sleep in a dumpster. sometimes better to ease into these things..

Jeffrey

what do you mean by four winds? you would have to be tough to survive like that with the dumpsters. i would be confused what to do. do the homeless people teach eachother?

kaci

btw, for a similar approach check out the zen peacemaker order and the "street retreats" .

kaci

what do you mean by four winds?

sorry, eight:
"Monks, these eight worldly conditions spin after the world, and the world spins after these eight worldly conditions. Which eight? Gain, loss, status, disgrace, censure, praise, pleasure, & pain. These are the eight worldly conditions that spin after the world, and the world spins after these eight worldly conditions."

from the Lokavipatti Sutta

you would have to be tough to survive like that with the dumpsters.

frankly, not as tough as hanging around with tigers in the jungle ..:eek:
really its just a matter of learning what is really necessary and what is a preference (ie. luxury) - this is the very core of non-attachment, no kidding.

i would be confused what to do.

mmm, yes - confusion ... bereft of the usual things on which we typically depend, yep. but, with time that passes and with skillful attitude it passes more easily.

do the homeless people teach eachother?

sure - all people teach each other, the question is really "do they teach truly useful and beneficial things?". with most homeless people i know its a mix, could use improvement.

SherabDorje

what do you mean by four winds? you would have to be tough to survive like that with the dumpsters. i would be confused what to do. do the homeless people teach eachother?

I was homeless for two years. My cutoff temperature for not sleeping in my truck was 20 degrees Fahrenheit. Then I almost always stayed in shelters, and ate at community meals, which were good for at least one good meal a day.

Most homeless people not only teach each other, they watch out for each other and offer whatever comforts they can.

Jack Kerouac wrote a novel called The Dharma Bums. It's a pretty good description.

(However, it's not a great book and I can't necessarily recommend it. I have since developed a distaste for Kerouac. But homelessness and "wandering" is a very reality-orienting experience. One gets to meet people as they really really are. I'm still trying to integrate the meaning of the experience in my life and how it relates to how I approach Dharma. All I can say is there's plenty of dukha out there to go around.)