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Tolerant Christians. They do exist.

BrianBrian Detroit, MI Moderator
edited February 2012 in Faith & Religion
«1

Comments

  • All Christians I ever ran into growing up and in college (granted, I didn't know many) were of the type you describe. That's the West Coast for you.
  • Yes. Sure they do. It might depend on where you live. I'm guessing the American Bible belt might have a less tolerant style of Christianity... just going by the Republican primaries.

    I know some wonderful open hearted and open minded Christians. ,,, and also a couple who maybe aren't, but who genuinely love my poor lost soul just the same.
  • A friend of mine is a Buddhist married to a Christian who does pastoral counseling. Her church is involved in a lot of ecumenical projects, gatherings, and conferences. They had a sort of lecture series, where they'd invite clergy from other faiths to provide an introduction to their beliefs and traditions. Islam was a big focus.

    This is in California.
  • Until I find truth and perfection within myself, I "try" not to judge other religions. And then after that I will not need to judge since I will see the perfection in all thing

    A good quote from a blog I follow:


    A: No no-this looks better!
    B: No no-this is better!
    C: No no! Can't you see it? This has to be the better looking one! ...

    Who is the best judge? Who has the "right" taste? Is there a "proper" preference? A thousand sentient beings (beings with feelings) have a thousand different standards because they have a thousand different sets of karma and inclinations. The wise argue not over the unimportant and frivolous because they know there will be no fruitful conclusion. The wisest judge is probably one who does not judge, especially for trivial matters.

  • Like others said, it depends on where you live and the type of people that follow the religion. I consider myself a tolerant Christian. There are tolerant everybody's.

    You just have to know where to look.
  • There can also be another kind of intolerance, an intolerance and denial of genuine difference. Like when Buddhists hold their Buddhist version of Jesus to be better than the Christian one, or when they hold the new-age view that Jesus has the same spiritual root as Buddha, regardless of what Christians believe, because they know better.

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Like others said, it depends on where you live and the type of people that follow the religion. I consider myself a tolerant Christian. There are tolerant everybody's.

    You just have to know where to look.
    I agree, and the tolerant Christians I have known far outnumber the intolerant ones.

  • It only takes a few douchebags to give everyone a bad name.

    Thanks for sharing!
  • ZenBadgerZenBadger Derbyshire, UK Veteran
    This topic has been quite a hot one locally for a while. Traditionally the Church of England has been a broad church, tolerant of a wide spectrum of Christian beliefs and for quite a while it has been fairly tolerant of other faiths and even atheism to the point of priests who use Zen techniques openly in their ministry.

    There is a highly vocal but tiny minority who want all this to stop though. They see the CofE shrinking at an alarming rate while the media hypes up the increase in radical Islam and think that is the way to go. Unfortunately it is easy to get backing for their stance from some of the more intolerant churches around the world as they tend to see tolerance as tantamount to paganism. I suppose the message is - if you have a laid-back church in your area make them feel appreciated.
  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran
    I've found that Christians from the United Church and Anglican Church are generally more liberal and not pushy.
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    We dont really seem to have an Intolerant Christian problem in the UK, Maybe more so in Immigrant communities but not so in general.
  • Of course they do, to think otherwise would be sheer ignorance.
  • Christianity in the modern West is about as benign and tolerant as they come. And I'm speaking as a non-Christian. I'd much prefer a society of modern Christians to just about any other. They might think I'm going to hell and disapprove of my lifestyle, but that's about the extent of their interference into my life.
  • B5CB5C Veteran
    I know some good Christians, but there are many more who are not. I am very afraid of the Evangelical Community who WILL not stop until EVERY human is Christian and their rules will be imposed.
  • Evangelical Christians, like fundies, give Christianity a bad name. It's unfortunate, but that seems to be how it is. Beating people over the head with your holy book is not a good way to share your faith, but not everyone sees that. I have members of my family I barely see/speak to/email because I have grown weary of feeling like I'm not good enough as I am. I've grown weary of normal, social conversation turning into politics AND religion, combined. The hypocrites are just too much. @B5C you are absolutely correct.
  • This topic has been quite a hot one locally for a while. Traditionally the Church of England has been a broad church, tolerant of a wide spectrum of Christian beliefs and for quite a while it has been fairly tolerant of other faiths and even atheism to the point of priests who use Zen techniques openly in their ministry.


    I think you could argue that the C of E has a duty to be inclusive because they are effectively the official state religion in the UK.

    Spiny
  • I will be honest with you guys, but when I was a Catholic and devout..I closed myself off to any religions specially Buddhism...I think it was fear mixed with close hearted, self righteousness.

    I hurt a lot of people's feelings and I regret that. . . But I grew and I reaize that the more you learn and attain knowledge, tempered with open compassion, the more you grow.

    But there are open. Christian, Jews and Muslims who want to understand rather than be understood
  • I know a black guy.
  • I'm not even going to try.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Good, I think that's a wise choice.
    well done for practising Right Speech.
  • Thanks federica.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    that's ok.
    i sincerely hope that by staying with us, and joining as a member, you will come to understand that while your experience is of instructive value to you - it is not everybody's experience.
    and while we all accept that certain factions of certain religions, are, to put it mildly, questionable, there is much to be said for permitting your mind to stay open - as was the point of this thread - and examining the experiences, anecdotes and stories others have to tell.
    People are people wherever you go.
    And it would appear that some people, are more human than others.

    :)
  • I'll be more open minded from now on.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    I think - if you are sincere, and obviously, we'll give you every support, that being the case - you will gradually find that the experiences you have had are actually, sadly extreme.
    I have Christian friends, who know I'm Buddhist.
    I'm sure many other members here, share that state.... and honestly - ?
    They're absolutely super......
  • I don't have friends who no I am Buddhist. If they found out, they would never think of me as they normally would.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Then they're not friends.
    Really.
    Are they?

    a friend is a person who can see right through you - yet still enjoy the show.
    anyone who might hold you in judgement against your self, is perhaps looking through a distorted perspective.....
  • My family would never except me for who I am too. I don't think they ever will. This why...
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited February 2012
    I don't have friends who no I am Buddhist. If they found out, they would never think of me as they normally would.
    Omar, I'm glad to see you're still around. :) I didn't get a chance to comment on your thread before it was closed. There are a many people here who haven't told their family they're Buddhist. That's sad, but the point is, you don't need to wear your religion on your sleeve or shout it from the rooftops. Quiet practice and study will do just fine. This is how many Christians observe their religion as well.

    I have friends, a married couple, who attend a church that set up a program to invite representatives of other religions to speak to the congregation about their traditions. One of my friends is Buddhist, the wife is a former pastor of the church. The Buddhist took a great interest in Islam, doing a lot of research because he felt it was important for the public to understand this religion, in light of the politics of the day (*ahem*). From what I understand, this was not a superficial introduction to other traditions, it went in depth, and was very successful.

    Tolerance, even goodwill, is out there. Maybe if you open your heart, you can find it. (Or if you move to NY or California, haha.)
  • I'll try to do that. It would be easier if I had friends who shared the same views I have.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited February 2012
    Omar, given that you're from that USA neck of the woods where Christian feelings run high, and intolerance is almost a bye-word, i can see how difficult this must be for you.
    (As a mod, i can see your location in your IP number, but I'm not revealing anything to anyone, in public....)
    The thing is, practising Buddhism in public, isn't all that difficult - providing you don't refer to it as Buddhism.
    The 4 Noble Truths, the 8Fold Path and the 5 Precepts contain nothing, anywhere specifically, which allude to Buddhism.
    They're just damn fine ways to live from day to day.....
    And if you follow them, and you practice their suggestion, then it seems that you would - and could - fit in anywhere.
  • I'm sure I can follow the 4 Noble Truths, 8Fold Path and 5 Precepts with having to say I'm a Buddhist, but what would you do if some asks,"Do you go to church every Sunday." I always say yes ,but I'm lying on purpose because of fear. This where my negative feelings are born.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited February 2012
    I live in a state that's majority Hispanic, which means majority Catholic. You'd never know it, just talking and mingling with people day-to-day. No one discusses religion. You can live happily in any city on the West Coast--I've covered a few in my life--and never hear the subject of religion come up, ever. "Christian feelings run high" in certain parts of the country, and in some rural pockets anywhere. But that description does not cover anywhere that I've lived in the US, nor anywhere I've spent time in in Canada, I might add.

    I think it's the Christian Right's dominance in Congress at various points in the last couple of decades that has brought extremists out of the woodwork and given them a sense of legitimacy, thus creating the overall impression that the US is a hotbed of fundamentalism. This is not the US I live in, though. There is another US that often doesn't get represented in conversations like this.

    edit: Omar: you say "my religious observance is personal". It's nobody's business. That's a nosy, rude question. Or, more lightheartedly and perhaps more effectively, you could respond: "Why? Are you taking a survey?" That should take care of it. ;)
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    "Church" isn't a building. 'church' is people. A church without people in it, is just bricks and mortar. It counts on the presence of a congregation to make it a Church....
    So Buddhists don't pray as such, but they practice certain rituals and recite Mantras as devotional practices designed to deepen their Refuge in the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sangha.
    You do that on a sunday morning , and you could reply 'yes' - and not be lying.... :)
  • @federica - you make a good point. I can remember as a moody teen, complaining to my parents: "If God is everywhere, why do we have to go to church?!" haha no dice, as I recall.
  • if a buddhist dwells on terminology of Islam, Christianity, Catholic or for this matter, Buddhist/buddhism or buddha, it's not true democracy in Buddhism. Buddhist is known as buddha student who applying both the Buddha and its teaching (sutra literature) to alchemically performing its innate benevolently blissful peace of all.
  • I'll try to do that. It would be easier if I had friends who shared the same views I have.
    I don't know where you live, but I am surrounded by, am friends with, and work for a number of extremely devout Christians. I'm secular and haven't been to a service in forever. I just don't bring up religion to anybody. No harm. No foul. Nobody ever asks and I certainly don't say much. Most Americans don't ask each other about religion.
  • "Church" isn't a building. 'church' is people. A church without people in it, is just bricks and mortar. It counts on the presence of a congregation to make it a Church....
    So Buddhists don't pray as such, but they practice certain rituals and recite Mantras as devotional practices designed to deepen their Refuge in the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sangha.
    You do that on a sunday morning , and you could reply 'yes' - and not be lying....
    I guess.
  • Live and let live :D

  • I'm going to paraphrase Jesus who was angry at the way the Jews fasted. He told his followers not to be like the hypocrites, who attend temple to be seen, threw ashes on their faces and wailed publicly... instead he (Jesus) wanted them to fast and worship inwardly. To go inside the inner room and shut the door. To pray in secret because God hears in secret.

    Many Christians attend church from home by television. There is no difference watching Joe olsteen or another Christian preacher at home or in person, IMO.

    If you don't want to lie to your family and friends, don't. I understand that you don't want or feel like you can't come out. I wouldn't if I were you, until you have some definitive answers to your personal spiritual questions. Any questions concerning your belief at this moment can be answered with tact, without hurting anyone, including yourself.

    Please tell me you know how to be both vague and tactful. On Sundays you could say to their inquiry "I have to meet a friend who is interested in religion and philosophy, we might go to his place of worship. . "

    This is not a lie..your friend is YOU, who is interested in religion and philosophy and anyplace could be a place of worship...PARK, HOUSE, CAR, STARBUCKS.

    you see? The only reason I suggest this is because I'm afraid that you might be kicked out of your house or ostracized or possibly forced to return to the "flock" without spending needed time asking yourself and seeking answers to your questions.

    With love.
    "Church" isn't a building. 'church' is people. A church without people in it, is just bricks and mortar. It counts on the presence of a congregation to make it a Church....
    So Buddhists don't pray as such, but they practice certain rituals and recite Mantras as devotional practices designed to deepen their Refuge in the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sangha.
    You do that on a sunday morning , and you could reply 'yes' - and not be lying....
    I guess.
  • I tried to rebel against going to church one time and my parents said I need to be Baptised again. I'll just do every thing secretly and quietly by myself, without hating any thing or anyone.
  • That is easier said than done. I am sorry for your situation, I personally believe we should all have the chance to grow up first so we can decide which faith if any to follow when we are mature enough.

    I guess you can do as your family wishes to prevent conflicts, and still practice the dharma at the same time. When you are old enough and able to leave your parents house, then it is all up to you. However, if you continue doing as your family wishes, keeping a smiley face etc, but have anger, hate and guilt inside, this will only cause you a lot of suffering within. The dharma has ways of dealing with that, I wish you good luck :)
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    I tried to rebel against going to church one time and my parents said I need to be Baptised again. I'll just do every thing secretly and quietly by myself, without hating any thing or anyone.
    How old are you, Omar?

  • I told my parents long ago about my disbelief in Christianity. It went well. Then again, she is not extremely serious about her beliefs.
  • When I told my parents long ago that I took ecstasy, acid, weed etc, that went down fairly okay as far as telling your parents you take drugs can go. When I told my mum I followed buddhism her first reaction was, :eek: don't run off and become a monk hahaha. Kind of screwed up if you ask me.
  • Don't forget the Christian Church is and has been a business for a long time. Maybe keeping butts in the seats and cash in the collection plate is the source of all the "our way or the highway" b.s.
  • I'm 15.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    I'm 15.
    I see. Aside from the religion thing, how do you present yourself to your parents?

  • Most Americans don't ask each other about religion.
    Except the ones who call you up disapprovingly when you miss a week, lol. Seriously, I think it took 2-3 years before the church finally gave up trying to drag us back in. The family members, of course, have never given up.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    I'm 15.
    That explains a lot, and i apologise unreservedly for being so harsh towards you in your original thread.
    I still feel it wasn't an entirely bad decision to close it though.....

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    I'm 15.
    That explains a lot, and i apologise unreservedly for being so harsh towards you in your original thread.
    I still feel it wasn't an entirely bad decision to close it though.....

    I think you made the right decision. Regardless of age, your action taught an important lesson that might have been missed with mere words.

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