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An ex Buddhist Monk tells me why he QUIT!!
zenmyste
Veteran
I spoke to an ex Monk today (visit to my local centre for a talk)..
He was ordained in the Theravada Tradition is Thailand..
He is no longer a MONK..
When I asked why he disrobed/quit his monk practice. He said;
After studying for many years, I got to a point where I was ''what am i doing here? What good is this for me and for others?
He also said, 'one day whilst studying one of the sutras, I thought 'why the hell is it important what is in a bloody sutra. What does it matters if a text says 'do this or 'do that'
Why the hell do I have to call my fellow Buddhist-monk friend by a different name? Why shouldnt I be allowed to call him PETER.
He told me, Of course he knew all the buddhist answers to these questions, but he was talking about, 'realistically', why change names, why study all the sutras when they are all hear-say and nothing was even written down until 300 Years 'after' Buddha passed away so how do we know what he said or did not say. I bet he said alot more, that never even got written down.
He carried on; ''I still meditate every morning. And shave my head (because of habit) *laughs*
But I do not 'seek' no more. I do not 'strive to become'.. I do not have the need to 'follow' buddha anymore'.
I have decided to follow my own heart. Im happy and feel free. I was starting to feel trapped, in life and practice. Now I can enjoy an ice cream with my god daughter *another laugh*
When another person asked ''What do you think about Enlightenment?
He answered ''Whats Enlightenment?'' *and laughs again*
When someone asked 'what advice would you give someone in life?
He answered ''Life is the best of all teachers. You are the second best. Listen to both, Learn from all, the wise and even the fool..But rely on no one. What ever you are, be the best you''
When asked 'what would you tell someone interested in buddhism'
He said ''Buddhism is a great guide. A great path, a great practice. But there are many practises. We are all on different paths but are all trying to get to the Same Apple Tree. But when one becomes too attached, even with his/her practice, it can cause them to think their cup is full. . . But our cups will never be full.
His last words were ''I want to practice 'Life' for a while. Ive practised Buddhism long enough''
(just thought id share this. Ex monk turned taxi-driver)
:-)
He was ordained in the Theravada Tradition is Thailand..
He is no longer a MONK..
When I asked why he disrobed/quit his monk practice. He said;
After studying for many years, I got to a point where I was ''what am i doing here? What good is this for me and for others?
He also said, 'one day whilst studying one of the sutras, I thought 'why the hell is it important what is in a bloody sutra. What does it matters if a text says 'do this or 'do that'
Why the hell do I have to call my fellow Buddhist-monk friend by a different name? Why shouldnt I be allowed to call him PETER.
He told me, Of course he knew all the buddhist answers to these questions, but he was talking about, 'realistically', why change names, why study all the sutras when they are all hear-say and nothing was even written down until 300 Years 'after' Buddha passed away so how do we know what he said or did not say. I bet he said alot more, that never even got written down.
He carried on; ''I still meditate every morning. And shave my head (because of habit) *laughs*
But I do not 'seek' no more. I do not 'strive to become'.. I do not have the need to 'follow' buddha anymore'.
I have decided to follow my own heart. Im happy and feel free. I was starting to feel trapped, in life and practice. Now I can enjoy an ice cream with my god daughter *another laugh*
When another person asked ''What do you think about Enlightenment?
He answered ''Whats Enlightenment?'' *and laughs again*
When someone asked 'what advice would you give someone in life?
He answered ''Life is the best of all teachers. You are the second best. Listen to both, Learn from all, the wise and even the fool..But rely on no one. What ever you are, be the best you''
When asked 'what would you tell someone interested in buddhism'
He said ''Buddhism is a great guide. A great path, a great practice. But there are many practises. We are all on different paths but are all trying to get to the Same Apple Tree. But when one becomes too attached, even with his/her practice, it can cause them to think their cup is full. . . But our cups will never be full.
His last words were ''I want to practice 'Life' for a while. Ive practised Buddhism long enough''
(just thought id share this. Ex monk turned taxi-driver)
:-)
0
Comments
And I'm pretty sure the Dalai Lama enjoys ice cream from time to time.
zenmyste
Some folks stick with robes to the end but most don't. The ongoing higher ordination numbers compared to the number of active monks bears this up. What was the significance of the ex monks story for you?
.
Although, i did get the 'feeling' that this monk was actually saying he no longer practises ''Buddhism''.. He just wants to enjoy Life as a normal fella without a strict label practice called 'Buddhist'
:-) Its hard to put into words what 'i think' he was trying to get across. I think he was saying he no longer wants to 'label' himself a buddhist. He just wants to be 'ordinary bloke' who wants to see his god daughter grow up, instead of having a strict buddhist life which upon till now hasnt got him very far.. (or maybe it has, thats could be his point, i dunno)
x
Similarly, a line-drawing cartoon I saw this morning showed a couple of Christian monks with quills, writing on paper under the title "Holy Bible." One monk is leaning over to the other and asking, "Hey, wouldn't it be funny if some day people actually BELIEVED this bullshit?"
As a matter of personal peace, I think it is quite important to tread with care in this realm. It is one thing to imagine being an ordinary fellow who understands things or to think things through to the intellectual conclusion that spiritual formats are bullshit. It is quite another to actualize and rest easy in the experience. This is not something anyone can judge adequately in another. Is this person bullshitting or is s/he telling a realized truth? The answer is that there is no way of knowing and even if you could know ... so what? The only answer -- the matter that relates to a personal peace -- is what YOU know, what YOU actualize.
My own feeling is that without the bullshit, we'd all be up shit's creek without a paddle. But that doesn't mean either that bullshit doesn't grow some lovely flowers or that, more important, anyone can avoid going through the bullshit in order to know, as a matter of experienced fact, that it is indeed bullshit... lovely, nourishing bullshit, no matter how much any of us may extol it or whine about practice.
But maybe this shouldn't be confused with leading a monastic life, which I'm sure isn't easy. But we as human beings, so I've read, really like to complicate matters. We think the more complex and difficult something is, the better it is for us. Like to be liberated, we need to suffer.
And if we believe stuff, it comes true.
I think I believe it's complex and liberation is for other people; not me; and that's why I'm not liberated? But not all teachers teach that.
The man never stopped practicing Buddhism; he only stopped being a monk.
I little story I wrote:
There was once a man who lived a long time ago who decided to find the end of the world. He knew that if he walked far enough in one direction he would eventually find it. So, he packed his bag, grabbed his walking stick, picked the direction of the rising sun and started walking.
Many, many years later, weary and with walking stick worn down to a nub, he looked around and recognized his surroundings. His great effort and long journey had taken him right back to where he started! When he told the people who recognized him what he'd discovered at the end of his journey, they were amazed. They never knew that their village was actually the end of the world, but they put up a sign and pilgrims came from all over to marvel at the spot.
As for the man who took the journey, was it a wasted journey to end up where he started? No, because he was a changed man for taking the journey. Other people could point to the dirt under their feet and proclaim it the end of the world, but only he knew what that meant.
This business about needing a learned teacher for guidance was fostered at a time when teachings were not written down and easily shared and so I don't see the point of adhering to one view when they are all here open to critical examination. H.H. The Dalai Lama and Thich Nhat Hanh have differing styles and views but my understanding of the dharma would be different without either one. And that's just the most popular among the living.
Sorry, perhaps that was more of a rant than a proper response.
I'll go fetch me some tea now.
Metta,
Abu
_/\_
I thought his conclusions were appropriate.
He did not seem to be leaving with a bitter taste in his mouth.
For me the life of a monk has no appeal. I applaud this mans courage to take it up and then for knowing when to move on.
I think Cinjorner's story is excellent.
Nothing creates exceptions to simple Buddhist truths like the devotion.
Thanks for sharing.
After studying for many years, I got to a point where I was ''what am i doing here? What good is this for me and for others?
He also said, 'one day whilst studying one of the sutras, I thought 'why the hell is it important what is in a bloody sutra. What does it matters if a text says 'do this or 'do that'
Why the hell do I have to call my fellow Buddhist-monk friend by a different name? Why shouldnt I be allowed to call him PETER.
He told me, Of course he knew all the buddhist answers to these questions, but he was talking about, 'realistically', why change names, why study all the sutras when they are all hear-say and nothing was even written down until 300 Years 'after' Buddha passed away so how do we know what he said or did not say. I bet he said alot more, that never even got written down.
He carried on; ''I still meditate every morning. And shave my head (because of habit) *laughs*
But I do not 'seek' no more. I do not 'strive to become'.. I do not have the need to 'follow' buddha anymore'.
I have decided to follow my own heart. Im happy and feel free. I was starting to feel trapped, in life and practice.
The pressure of practice and the monastery can be very intensive. It might be easier to just retire and derobe, or for lay people, to give up the practice, the desire for full enlightenment and awakening.
These are the words said by someone who feels that release - who is ecstatic and happy to be out.
"What am I doing here? What good is it for me and others" What use are these questionable, outdated conventions. Who knows if the words they say are Buddha's are even accurate. I'm just going to be free and happy, man.
My paraphrasing, but the sentiment is there.
The issue is not monk or non monk, nun or non nun, home leaver, or stay homer.
These are all valid and respected path in the way of the Buddha.
But the sentiments that come above are more the reflection of someone who has not penetrated the truths of the Buddha, and give up in an exasperated and certainly delightful release of the pressure of wanting to know the Buddha path.
The path is not easy, but I also know that for one who has understood the words experientially there is no longer any doubt about whether it was the Buddha's words anymore, there is no claim that one no longer needs to follow the Buddha - for the Buddha's Way is just the reality of the path, and the freedom from the 'trap of life and practice' is not a real trap - the trap was always only in the greed, hatred and delusion ie ignorance of the Dharma.
Therefore, I see his claims as such, but I am happy that people see this as a great inspirational story.
Like the taste of the salt of the ocean, the taste of the freedom of the Dhamma - within robes or within a singlet and T - is always the same. And we are all free to choose the clothes we wish to keep ourselves warm.
Re: your comment about letting go of the raft, that is for the genuinely enlightened, anyone else is just swapping an excuse for an excuse IMO. And in my experience of the Awakened, the raft may be relinquished, but it is always respected and recognised for what it is and was.
Best wishes,
Abu