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If there is no "self," then what determines a persons actions?
BoatS
Explorer
It is taught in Buddhism that there is no "self," but it is rather an idea and perception that you have created throughout your life. But say that a person is speaking to another person and is mindful of their actions and words. What determines these "mindful" words and actions if it is not previous experiences? How does one mindfully choose the what to say/do when their are limitless options? I feel completely lost. For example:
When I am mindful of my actions and words in day-to-day conversation and interaction, I find that sometimes I do not know what to say because I see limitless options ranging from - witty, compassionate, caring, neutral, etc. I freeze up, and cannot decide how I want to precede. I used to just react and respond how I saw fit, but now I witness what I was going to say and perceive the impact of those words/actions. It almost feels as if I am not be genuine to my true desire/self, because a lot of times I'm altering what I would normally say. It also feels a bit manipulative since I intentionally choose my actions.
Your thoughts,
BoatS
When I am mindful of my actions and words in day-to-day conversation and interaction, I find that sometimes I do not know what to say because I see limitless options ranging from - witty, compassionate, caring, neutral, etc. I freeze up, and cannot decide how I want to precede. I used to just react and respond how I saw fit, but now I witness what I was going to say and perceive the impact of those words/actions. It almost feels as if I am not be genuine to my true desire/self, because a lot of times I'm altering what I would normally say. It also feels a bit manipulative since I intentionally choose my actions.
Your thoughts,
BoatS
0
Comments
Loving-kindness is easier to practice than insight for most people, so you might want to start there. If there are situations which typically trigger a sense of manipulation, try to go into them with a sense of warmth, generosity, appreciation and love for the objects of manipulation.
It is by the self that one avoids evil, it is by the self that one is purified,
Purity and impurity depend on the very self (paccattam), no one could purify another" (Dhammapada 165).
So if you see a fruit you've previously eaten and didn't like, you'll recognize the fruit and the fact that you don't like it and a feeling of displeasure will arise. Then depending on you, you'll take some action... wrinkle your face up, avert your eyes, pick it up and throw it. It's all in-the-moment, but your past experiences do have value.
Bringing your consciousness to the present, being "mindful", doesn't mean analyzing what you're doing. That's called "checking" in our school. Mindfulness is being aware of what you're doing, that's all. You're checking all possible actions and trying to choose the best one. That leaves your mind tied into knots.
BoatS
The way to approach this mindfully without getting tied up in knots is just to watch the conditioning which drives the choice. Ideally, you also watch the conditioning which leads you to identify with the process of choosing, but that is insight practice, and should probably come later.
I suggest that you are holding on too tightly, and getting wrapped up in the technical side of things. This is not a hard thing to do considering the abundance of such material available on the forum.
The notion of “No Self” simply means that we do not have an intrinsic independent existence apart from others.
Relax and return to simplicity and spontaneity instead of complication and calculation. Awareness doesn’t mean analysis or having judging or discriminating thoughts. A car passes by you, and you are aware that it is a car passing by without having to label it a car, or then even to start critiquing the car’s color, style, and then thinking I hate or like the car.
There goes Mary Jane. She passed me by. Instead of there goes Mary Jane she’s a terrible person and so on.
I noticed a piece of gum in the urinal today, but with a discursive mind I thought about how inconsiderate this person must have been for the one that cleans the urinal. Personal example.
then the words don't really do it justice
If you're interested in freewill, Sam Harris (a neuroscientist) has some interesting stuff to say about it, or rather the lack of it:
It may help the OP understand too.
This is also very good with regards our concept of self (often posted on this site too):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GFIyhseYTWg
Try to take note of how you feel when you are asked a question, before mind has had a chance to work it over. As @Silouan suggested, be simple and open. The answer, if you have one, will come to you.
You don't have to be perfect though. You don't have to say perfect words, act perfectly. As long as the intention is good, it's basically fine. Just determine, am I acting skillfully or am I not? And take the general skillful direction from there, don't become too robotic.
Don't worry, this will get much more easy over time and you'll feel more free and open then before. Your negative habit energies will get less and less and your responses and actions will naturally become more Buddha-like. It's a bit like trying to walk, in the beginning you fall and it's hard, but in the end it is second nature.
As to what creates those actions, it's the new habit tendencies you create. People also call this karma.
I hope this helps.
With kindness,
Sabre
Thank you again for the deep insight. You put your ideas in a very applicable and straight-forward manner. Also, I very much enjoyed your write up on the origin of thoughts.
@driedleaf What do you mean by finding who we are? Like morals and values?
@Sabre
It is reassuring to know that these are common problems, sometimes I feel somewhat crazy with my ideas/mind. I'm glad that this is something that improves over time. I am fairly new (~4 years of practice, on and off) and I always seem to encounter new issues as I progress. I suppose that is part of learning.
Well, the path is going against the mind's tendencies. That's why the Buddha called it going against the stream. So it's not always easy. There will be hard times ahead. But it's beautiful and worth it, the easy times will dominate more and more.
There being no self doesn't mean that there is nothing, only that there is no ego, no "you" - you being the eo that you identify with until enlightenment, and that disappears when you reach it.
The Self is the same as everyone else's Self, and there is no difference. The only differences are in the self.
You know like how if you watch the wheels on the highway spin and sometimes they look like they start spinning backwards? And we see a "something spinning the other direction" that isn't really there, but is actually an "illusion" or a patchwork of moments?
Nonetheless, mindfulness lets the proper action happen, because deep down in our deepest instincts we know taking-and-giving so well that it's Natural. I don't mean to sound like I know something, because I am pretty new to all this as well, but I think a lot of it is practicing to trust mindfulness, to trust the "instinct"
Like when a friend of mine told me that there is no soul in Buddhism I sorta freaked out. Oh shnikes! I just lost a soul! AAAAH! But I'm really glad he told me the way he did, because we have a lot of assumptions about what reality is, but we hardly ever sit down to actually investigate it without all our preconceptions. There is still progress, still the art of getting-better-at-it, the art of tranquility, but none of these things require an "actor" .. letting go of the grasping to I/me/mine doesn't mean we vanish, it's just pulling out the thorn.
But I think that in specifically trying to let go of "self" one is still driving a wedge of separation, and really we are not separate from the universe. Just because we are like fish that hardly notice the water around them doesn't mean that we can exist separately from the water.
In every moment there is a whole new reality, brand new sensory inputs, brand new state of being, completely new! Let go of the old and simply be receptive, over and over again.
I really enjoy these words by Atisha
spinning wheels and heartfelt good wishes
You are most welcome. I'm glad it might be useful.
If I might add. You know when you greet someone and just smile? That I think is simplicity and spontaneity at its very essence. :-)
Is this a Buddhist teaching?
I am guessing its experiencing it, AKA practice.
But this isn't about that, I mean whenever we use language we're in the realms of concepts, but it's about the use of unintelligible terminology with someone who is new to Buddhism. Otherwise we might as well type in Japanese. Wakarimasu ka?
I was referring more to this:
It is not that there is self
It is not that there is no self
It is not that there is neither self nor no self
It is not that there is both self and no self
It is
Either way, the buddha said that we are not to concern ourselves with self or no-self, just that this "I" is not-self.