Anna Karenina

PrairieGhost

Has anyone seen Anna Karenina? Just saw it at the cinema and loved it... wonderful line near the end:

'You do what's right'

'How do you know what's right?'

'You just know'

'But I believe in reason'

'Reason (said in derisive tone). Is reason why you love her?'

Or words to that effect. Anyway, it's a wonderful film with an amazing cast, and a clever way of using a theatre setting as a distancing technique, so we don't get swept away in empathy with the performances. I have been nibbling at the margins of Tolstoy's Three Brothers for months, and this film has convinced me to make more of an effort with it.

RebeccaS

Gah no. They cast Kiera Knightley which leads me to believe they never actually bothered to read the book at all

PrairieGhost

Why is she wrong for the part? I do have a soft spot for her, partly because she looks a bit like an ex-girlfriend of mine, but I also think this was the best performance I've ever seen from her.

RebeccaS

Because Anna Karenina was this voluptuous beauty, an old school beauty, a Russian beauty.

Not that Keira Knightley isn't beautiful, she's just the wrong kind of beautiful for this particular part.

Anna Karenina is the epitome of femininity and seduction in a classic sense. I really can't see Knightley pulling that off with her wiry frame and unique features. She just doesn't fit the bill.

PrairieGhost

Ah... the way it's filmed is much more like he seduces her.

RebeccaS

Maybe I'm just against a British cast for a Russian film and the idea that "period piece" now means Kiera Knightley and Matthew Macfadyen. It's become kind of like... A literary brat pack

PrairieGhost

This is true. But to be fair her non-period roles have been dire. And this is artful, it's not heritage cinema.

RebeccaS

Her period roles haven't really been much either though. She was so wooden in pride and prejudice I thought it was disastrous, which was a shame because the supporting cast were excellent, even Macfadyen. She's not really a great actress now that I think about it... I feel like I put up with her simply because she's so often forced upon us

But it's worse when the make the movie out of the book because any slight deviation from how the reader perceived the character can ruin the experience.

Knightely in Pride and Prejudice for example, I don't think she captured the Bennett spirit at all, and while it was an OK movie, that fact that she wasn't even representative of the original character (to me) took a lot away from it.

PrairieGhost

She's a lot stronger in this, and it's very much an ensemble piece. Give it a rental anyway?

RebeccaS

Yeah why not

andyrobyn

I am more with RebeccaS on this one - I like film and what it can portray. For me, it has one limitation - when it comes to cinemaphotography of great literary works, the actors have little hope of carrying off a worthy portrayal of the characters as they are developed in the written works ( as I said, in my opinion ).

Dakini

RebeccaS said:

Because Anna Karenina was this voluptuous beauty, an old school beauty, a Russian beauty.

Not that Keira Knightley isn't beautiful, she's just the wrong kind of beautiful for this particular part.

Anna Karenina is the epitome of femininity and seduction in a classic sense. I really can't see Knightley pulling that off with her wiry frame and unique features. She just doesn't fit the bill.

Well, you know, Julia Roberts was all wrong for the role of Erin Brockovich, but she's the big-name box-office draw, so she's the one who got cast. Unfortunately, casting these days tends to be a lot more about money than it used to, and less about art.

RebeccaS

Dakini said:

RebeccaS said:

Because Anna Karenina was this voluptuous beauty, an old school beauty, a Russian beauty.

Not that Keira Knightley isn't beautiful, she's just the wrong kind of beautiful for this particular part.

Anna Karenina is the epitome of femininity and seduction in a classic sense. I really can't see Knightley pulling that off with her wiry frame and unique features. She just doesn't fit the bill.

Well, you know, Julia Roberts was all wrong for the role of Erin Brockovich, but she's the big-name box-office draw, so she's the one who got cast. Unfortunately, casting these days tends to be a lot more about money than it used to, and less about art.

Sad but true

zombiegirl

I'm still bothered by Emma Watson playing Hermione Granger. Hermione was supposed to be buck toothed and frizzy haired... but she was adorable with crimped hair. Then she grew up to be hot. Oh well...

But back OT, I haven't seen the movie and oddly enough, never read the book either. I actually didn't know they had made a new movie version. I will probably check it out though because I've always been curious and... *cough* ...I like Kiera Knightly.

PrairieGhost

Hi andyrobyn:

I am more with RebeccaS on this one - I like film and what it can portray. For me, it has one limitation - when it comes to cinemaphotography of great literary works, the actors have little hope of carrying off a worthy portrayal of the characters as they are developed in the written works ( as I said, in my opinion ).

A film can't show the same things, it can't show inner monologues and it can't consider a wealth of detail. But it can show us things that a book can't, nuances of physical expression and atmospheres, subtle timbres of voice, mannerisms etc etc

Where adaptations fail is where they try to do the same job as the book, to cram everything in and add nothing.

andyrobyn

Yeah, I agree PrairieGhost. Horses for courses I say .... great literary works can still make wonderful cinema for the reasons you highlight. I have my own visuals from reading the prose and the film does not impact on that.

sova

Man, I thought we were gonna discuss the book by the title of this thread, I was so excited.

federica

Well it wouldn't be off-topic, strictly speaking......

PrairieGhost

What are the main themes of the book?

sova

I am not sure, I have only read a few pages, but the style is very beautiful and... thank you for reminding me to go borrow a copy from the library

It's a large book, but I was really happy with the flow of [the first chapter] in the Richard Pevear / Larissa Volokhonsky (now Larissa Pevear ) version. Translations are a delicate art.

http://www.amazon.com/Anna-Karenina-Leo-Tolstoy/dp/0143035002

OneLifeForm

zombiegirl said:

I'm still bothered by Emma Watson playing Hermione Granger. Hermione was supposed to be buck toothed and frizzy haired... but she was adorable with crimped hair. Then she grew up to be hot. Oh well...

But back OT, I haven't seen the movie and oddly enough, never read the book either. I actually didn't know they had made a new movie version. I will probably check it out though because I've always been curious and... *cough* ...I like Kiera Knightly.

Emma Watson and Kiera Knightly are both hot! hehehe :buck:

RebeccaS

PrairieGhost said:

What are the main themes of the book?

What do you mean, themes?

@Sova, yeah, translation is so important! I'm currently reading two different translations of The Brothers Karamazov (Dostoevsky) and they almost tell two different stories OK, I'm exaggerating, but the tone of the book is definitely altered.

sova

@RebeccaS

in a linguistics class we talked about two different 'schools' one might say, about translation -- "word for word" or "sense for sense" -- word for word is pretty much the most absurd idea in translating something ... basically grab a dictionary and just plug and chug... But sense-for-sense is really what most (if not all of it) boils down to! Even things like scriptures and whatnot can make no sense if translated "literally," even with the best dictionary in the world.

It's cool that you mention that the tone is notably different -- I started reading Anna Karenina and the style is .. way sweet. Have you tried reading The Brothers Karamazov in the original Russian?

RebeccaS

My Russian isn't good enough yet I'm currently working my way through a bilingual copy of Crime and Punishment but I have a lot of work to do on my Russian before I'll be able to read an original language work (the reason I actually chose to learn Russian lol). The first book I'm going to read is The Idiot by Dostoevsky (one of my favorite books) and then Anna Karenina, another favorite

Yeah, I've never heard it described as sense for sense, but I totally agree. I feel that's where the spirit of the work lies.