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Dependent arising from the Mahayana point of view
Jason
God EmperorArrakis Moderator
in Philosophy
This discussion was created from comments split from: Karma and Rebirth in Theravada Buddhism by Brian Ruhe (Video).
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@vinylyn
Edit: forgot or didn't see this was from the perpective of Theravada... but anyhow here's my analysis from the Mahayana perspective. I suspect it can be found, this reasoning, also in the Theravada, but I don't know why I think that, just a hunch.
The Buddha didn't die and he was never born. At least that is the conclusion of mahayana Buddhism. You can see this in the prajnaparamita sutras such as the heart sutra and especially the diamond sutra. Also you can see it in nagajaruna's madyamaka jobby where there is no time. According to my teacher through rational analsis (also from Nagajaruna) we see that there is no effect lacking a cause and also that... welll I'll let my teacher explain cause and effect and existence non-existence.
From the e-mail question and answers published by Buddhism Connect a free e-mailing.
BC92 - The twelve links of dependent origination
Summary: The twelve links of dependent origination, also known as the twelve nidanas (Sanskrit: pratitya samutpada; Tibetan, ten-drel, chu-nyi) are an important part of the Buddha's teaching. They are the means by which the deluded world of samsara is maintained. Here a student wonders how this fits with the later Madhyamaka teachings on the emptiness of reality, expounded by Nagarjuna.
Student:
I have been looking into the Madhyamaka teachings, and I have been struggling to understand the Buddha Shakyamuni’s teaching on the Twelve Nidanas in this context. Buddha states that there are these twelve stages of causation and Nagarjuna proves cause and effect not to be possible. Could you help me to understand this?
Lama Shenpen:
Actually the Buddha didn’t talk about twelve stages of causation. He talked about 12 conditions each of which when present allowed for the presence of the next. That is not quite the same as saying one thing is the cause of another.
Nagarjuna talked about how the idea of cause implies something has the power in it to produce something else but when you look closely at the things involved they are not of the nature of things that can produce an effect. Since a thing called a cause cannot produce an effect and an effect cannot exist without a cause this shows that things do not arise in dependence on causes, and they do not arise causelessly and so that things do not arise!
Or in other words, whatever it is that we are calling things, their true nature cannot be grasped in terms of causes and effects, existence and not existence, arising and not arising and so on.
Does this help at all?
Your basic two truths conundrum. Why bother.
And don't talk down to people.
I have no way of knowing if you read that text and in any case reading or not reading has nothing to do with being talked down to. If I didn't know if you read Harry Potter and I asked if you had read it that would not be talking down to you.
I think you have a bad outlook on me and I apologize for anywhere I gave you cause to think that way.
Siddhartha is a human but what I am talking about is from another dimension from how you are thinking. I tried but I don't know how to explain it. So thank you for instilling me with the challenge of understanding my intuition better and looking for a way to explain.
(This is a mirror page of http://www.plumvillage.org/DharmaDoors/Sutras/chantingbook/Diamond_Sutra.htm)
The Vajracchedika Prajnaparamita Sutra
1
This is what I heard one time when the Buddha was staying in the monastery in Anathapindika's park in the Jeta Grove near Sravasti with a community of 1,250 bhiksus, fully ordained monks.
That day, when it was time to make the round for alms, the Buddha put on his sanghati robe and, holding his bowl, went into the city of Sravasti to seek alms food, going from house to house. When the alms round was completed, he returned to the monastery to eat the midday meal. Then he put away his sanghati robe and his bowl, washed his feet, arranged his cushion, and sat down.
2
At that time, the Venerable Subhuti stood up, bared his right shoulder, put his knee on the ground, and, folding his palms respectfully, said to the Buddha, "World-Honored One, it is rare to find someone like you. You always support and show special confidence in the bodhisattvas.
"World-Honored One, if sons and daughters of good families want to give rise to the highest, most fulfilled, awakened mind, what should they rely on and what should they do to master their thinking?"
The Buddha replied, "Well said, Subhuti! What you have said is absolutely correct. The Tathagata always supports and shows special confidence in the bodhisattvas. Please listen
with all of your attention and the Tathagata will respond to your question. If daughters and sons of good families want to give rise to the highest, most fulfilled, awakened mind, they should rely on the following way."
The Venerable Subhuti said, "Lord, we are so happy to hear your teachings."
3
The Buddha said to Subhuti, "This is how the bodhisattva mahasattvas rnaster their thinking. 'However many species of living beings there are--whether born from eggs, from the womb, from moisture, or spontaneously; whether they have form or do not have form; whether they have perceptions or do not have perceptions; or whether it cannot be said of them that they have perceptions or that they do not have perceptions, we must lead all these beings to the ultimate nirvana so that they can be liberated. And when this innumerable, immeasurable, infinite number of beings has become liberated, we do not, in truth, think that a single being has been liberated,'
"Why is this so? If, Subhuti, a bodhisattva holds on to the idea that a self, a person, a living being, or a life span exists, that person is not an authentic bodhisattva."
Aren't all Arhats and Bohisattvas last birth supposed to be in the Human realm, last exam, so to speak!
//edit: Crap it''s contagiou's