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For those interested in Dzogchen.

I think reading about Dharma is a mixed blessing at best...it is easy to end up in a confused tangle of other peoples ideas..
However I also know that reading can lead to seeking out living breathing people with beating hearts to learn from.

So in that spirit, and in response to several queries about Dzogchen I would like to recommend
" The Roaring Silence " by Ngakpa Chogyam and Khandro Dechen.
It provides an introduction to some very subtle ideas, that is immediately accessible.
Many of the publications that deal with the subject assume a good deal of prior knowledge and vocabulary...
The Roaring Silence is pragmatic without being condescending.
Silouan

Comments

  • For a startlingly original and accessible take on Dharma I would also recommend
    " Wearing The Body Of Visions " and
    " Journey Into Vastness "
    Both by Ngakpa Chogyam..one of the most intriguing and thought provoking of modern Dharma teachers.
  • Thank you for the recommendation @Citta. I have become very much interested in Dzogchen as of late, and recently purchased three books and currently reading "A Cascading Waterfall of Nectar" written my Thinley Norbu.

    Based upon what I have read so far I'm amazed at how much it speaks to me and reveals the nature of my spiritual experiences with agreeability and comfort. I have been so moved that I'm currently looking for a center in Southern California in the Nyingma tradition in order to receive formal instruction.
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited January 2013
    The Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu is a world wide sangha of Dzogchen practitioners..easily found online.
    Although ChNN is a Nyingma Lineage holder he numbers among his students a number of Christian monks and nuns, and at least one Sufi teacher.
    Although having said that it should be noted that ChNN does not encourage a new age or eclectic approach..all his students are encouraged to live out the exterior discipline of their own tradition..whether Buddhist or Christian or Bon etc..
    He sees Dzogchen as the vehicle that points to the origin of all traditions,


    PS I have just googled and there is a ChNN centre in Berkeley.
    Whether that is South, East, or North California I know not. Posting as I am from drizzly England.


    Silouan
  • @Citta Thanks for the info.

    The Tibetan Gelug Buddhist and Eastern Orthodox Christian traditions I had previously followed brought me to Dzogchen, but I can't see adhering to either as I believe they have fulfilled their purpose for me spiritually.

    It is difficult to explain, but they no longer nurture the view I have been blessed to glimpse and in a way restrict it, but I don't say this in a negative way though. For me it is what it is. I hope this makes sense.

    Any other insights you can provide on the subject is greatly appreciated.

  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited January 2013
    THE specialist forum for Dzogchen is Vajracakra.com..
    It wont be to everyone's taste
  • NevermindNevermind Bitter & Hateful Veteran
    How to pronounce Dzogchen???
  • Zog CHEN with the emphasis on the second syllable.
  • NevermindNevermind Bitter & Hateful Veteran
    Thanks!
  • SpinyNormanSpinyNorman It's still all old bollocks Veteran
    Can anyone say in a nutshell what Dzogchen is?
  • I wont be posting again until April at the earliest but it seems irresponsible having started the thread not to make a reply.
    In short ( though "in a nutshell " is beyond my skills )
    Dzogchen is a direct seeing into our original nature which happens through the intervention of a
    realised teacher. Without such a teacher Dzogchen is impossible.
    Many who receive the necessary transmission are followers of Buddhadharma, but many are not. It is therefore problematic to describe Dzogchen as a Buddhist school..
    By far the best way to find out more is to link up with a local Dzogchen group in person.
    Failing that there are books such as the one I recommend in the OP, and there is a new website
    Vajracakra.com which hosts many western Dzogchen teachers and students including the former "Namdrol " who no longer identifies himself as a Buddhist and is known by his birth name.. Malcolm.
    So goodwill to all and I may be back with the blooming of the Bluebells in the English woodlands..

    Namaste.
    taiyakimisecmisc1
  • Peace, @Citta. Looking forward to your return.... :-)
  • @PedanticPorpoise, I have read Mahamudra (companion to Dzogchen) in a nutshell is:

    Nothing to grasp. Nothing else needed.
  • Citta said:

    Zog CHEN with the emphasis on the second syllable.

    Really? "chen", in Tibetan (meaning "great") usually doesn't carry the emphasis in the word. I've always heard it pronounced: "DZOG-chen".

  • In german chen means little.
  • Can anyone say in a nutshell what Dzogchen is?

    ‎"We should be natural and spontaneous, accepting and learning from everything. This enables us to see the ironic and amusing side of events that usually irritate us. In meditation we can see through the illusion of past, present and future - our experience becomes the continuity of nowness... Simply plunging directly into meditation in the moment now, with our whole being, free from hesitation, boredom or excitement, is - Enlightenment."

    -Dilgo Khentse Rinpoche


    Longer version here:

    http://www.nyingma.com/dzogchen1.htm
    Silemisecmisc1sova
  • Jeffrey said:

    In german chen means little.

    In Tibetan it's related to the mongol word, "khan".

  • BhanteLuckyBhanteLucky Monk since 2014 A Forest Monastery Veteran
    Dakini said:

    Jeffrey said:

    In german chen means little.

    In Tibetan it's related to the mongol word, "khan".

    image
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    To reinforce a point I made earlier in the thread...with the indulgence of the mods I hope.
    Dzogchen is a fairly specialist topic with its own vocab. This does not sit well imo with a generalist ( and extremely useful ) Buddhist forum like New Buddhist.
    So I hope I am not out of line when I suggest that anyone interested in Dzogchen should drop into Vajracakra.com.
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran
    I'm just wondering what you think of what teachers have said (the ones I know) along the lines of, Dzogchen is a higher, advanced teaching that should not be put out there to just anyone. That it requires a solid and trustworthy relationship with a teacher to transmit the information properly. Indeed one of them went so far as to say he was not happy that the teachings were made so widely available as they are (with the hundreds of books available, some of which are far less reliable than others) and that he found it irresponsible for the teachers to do so. Just wondering what anyone thinks of that. All of them were concerned with the nature of so many Westerners to always seek out the most advanced and extreme of things out of ego and not fully understanding what they were taking on, and not having a teacher who is properly trained in Dzogchen transmission.
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited May 2013
    A teacher able to give the " pointing out " is absolutely essential.
    I don't think however that this implies a more advanced teaching...indeed, Dzogchen is simple.
    It does require putting yourself unconditionally into the hands of a teacher.
    It is vitally important therefore to be sure of any given teacher to the furthest degree possible before placing yourself in that situation.
    What then follows is not so much a matter of more or less advanced teachings..its all in the relationship.
    Obviously for Asians as well as westerners it is to a great extent self-selecting.
    I think what worries some teachers is the western tendency to assume that they can do it from books.
    And/or that it is like some other teaching already known to them. Or that it can be casually " tried " alongside a whole market stall of other means.
    Anyone who sees themselves as sturdily independent and wary of what they see as authority figures will run a mile from Dzogchen.
    This is not a matter of higher or lower.
    Except that it starts by putting the forehead to the floor....literally.
    And being faithful to one teacher and one tradition...being spiritually monogamous.
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited May 2013
    Actually those who see that the main attraction of Buddhadharma in its emphasis on independence may well see Dzogchen as inferior...
  • FlorianFlorian Veteran
    Just to be awkward...

    Is not voluntarily trusting completely in a teacher very like being independent? I always feel that this sort of commitment cannot be made genuinely by someone who is not an independent spirit. Only a thought.
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    You might be on to something there....
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