How would a Buddhist respond to a killer/abuser? What if it involved your family/pet/loved one?

lotusbuds

I was on facebook yesterday and I am signed up with a variety of different animal rescue groups. I frequently get posts on horror stories of how animals were abused. How they were beaten to death, how pit bulls were forced to fight to the death, electrocuted, how cats were skinned alive, how elephants were beaten in the circus, etc.

Quite depressing really. I got to thinking, how would a Buddhist respond? Of course, the first thing that comes to mind is, trying to rehabilitate the person, trying to help understand why they did what they did, not enforcing punishment.

It sounds wonderful in a book...but what if this happened to you? What if your beloved pet was killed by someone who had no regrets and would do it again in a heartbeat? What if your husband or wife were tortured and then murdered? Can we forgive these people? Can we really show them love and compassion? Would it make sense to rehabilitate them and let them go out into the public again? How fair would it be to put other lives at risk again?

Just wanted to know your thoughts on this and any Buddhist insight.

Jeffrey

Too many scenarios to think of an answer that fit all. In general I think you should act within the boundaries of the law. If someone killed your dog they are vulnerable to animal cruelty laws and also destruction of property (I guess). If my mother was tortured and murdered I believe that person is dangerous and it shouldn't happen again. Throw the book at them. But it would be nice if jail were not such a horrid environment. I believe people can repent, but I would be hesitant to trust someone who had tortured a person. You can forgive them, but I wouldn't trust them.

Invincible_summer

I think sometimes when we Buddhists think of "forgiveness" and "metta" and "compassion," we think it has to be an automatic response.

Maybe that's a flaw in our thinking.

It's clear to people who are not just newcomers to Buddhism that the tradition is not about being some emotionless automaton - we are to cultivate the ability to see emotions for what they are and not get hung up on them. So having emotions of anger, sadness, etc are okay.

It's what we do after we realize we're experiencing these emotions that counts.


So I think it's very possible to be able to forgive, to love, and to extend compassion to those who have wronged us grievously. Maybe not in a week, or even a year. But once we are able to see clearly through the emotions that come with such a sudden, horrendous event, I think it's possible.

karasti

Someone who could do something as horrible as some of those animal abuses (though some of them that are posted on FB are not real, that is helpful to remember. Not that abuse doesn't happen, but not everything on FB is worthy of an emotional response because it's not even true) Anyhow, people who are capable of such acts are people who are suffering greatly, in ways we cannot even fathom because we cannot imagine being pushed to such lengths. But it is true. People who do that are acting out their deep-seeded feelings and problems on someone else. They deserve compassion for that reason. That does not mean society should be subject to their abuses over and over again. The laws of society still stand. But part of the problem with those laws is it does not address the root cause of these actions. It looks as them as "you misbehaved and we're going to take away your rights as a result" except the same person that goes into prison is the same one that comes out, most of the time. Sometimes they do rehab themselves. But often they experience further abuse and suffering and come out more confused and more angry than they were when they went in. I don't have an answer about what to do about that, just saying that is often what happens.

People who understand the root of their nature, which is the same for *every single one of us* do not do these things, because we have that understanding. But other people are so far removed from it that they don't even know it is there. Helping them to find it may help them. Continually putting them in prison with no response to their suffering will not help them. Or society in the long run.

seeker242

"Monks, even if bandits were to carve you up savagely, limb by limb, with a two-handled saw, he among you who let his heart get angered even at that would not be doing my bidding. Even then you should train yourselves: 'Our minds will be unaffected and we will say no evil words. We will remain sympathetic, with a mind of good will, and with no inner hate. We will keep pervading these people with an awareness imbued with good will and, beginning with them, we will keep pervading the all-encompassing world with an awareness imbued with good will — abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will.' That's how you should train yourselves.

However, that does not mean that you don't send them to jail. Sending them to jail would be the compassionate thing to do, for them and everyone else. Stopping them from harming others and not having "inner hate" are the most important things imo. Forgiving them doesn't mean letting them out of jail.

karasti

“When another person makes you suffer, it is because he suffers deeply within himself, and his suffering is spilling over. He does not need punishment; he needs help. That's the message he is sending.” TNH

That doesn't mean they shouldn't be removed so that they cannot hurt others in the time they are getting help. But we do almost nothing at all to help anyone in our prison system. It's such a vast problem, it would require a complete overhaul, obviously it's not something that a person can just decide to fix on their own.

I did find the Dhamma Brothers documentary to be really interesting, and a good place to start. I hope it continues to spread. Teaching people how to recognize their nature is good for all of us.

lobster

how would a Buddhist respond?

“Sentient beings, self and others, enemies and dear ones—all are made by thoughts. It is like seeing a rope and mistaking it for a snake. When we think that the rope is a snake, we are scared, but once we see that we are looking at a rope, our fear dissipates. We have been deluded by our thoughts. Likewise, mentally fabricating self and others, we generate attachment and aversion.” ~Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche

. . . thinking too much about bad situations, or running towards good experiences often substitutes for dealing effectively with a situation as it arises. For example I rescued a 'spider' from a kitchen sink, only to find it was a rice grain being moved by water . . .

Imagining ropes or spiders one has not even encountered is fabrication, what do you think we should do? My inclination is to do nothing. :wave:

jll

dont underestimate a person's ability to
forgive.
in south africa, when apartheid ended,
a truth n reconciliation commission was conducted.
the atrocities performed during apartheid was forgiven.

closer to home , this woman was severely disabled
by her killer, but forgave him.
too bad, she is not buddhist.

http://www.oprah.com/showinfo/Why-I-Forgave-the-Man-Who-Shot-Me

lotusbuds said:

I was on facebook yesterday and I am signed up with a variety of different animal rescue groups. I frequently get posts on horror stories of how animals were abused. How they were beaten to death, how pit bulls were forced to fight to the death, electrocuted, how cats were skinned alive, how elephants were beaten in the circus, etc.

Quite depressing really. I got to thinking, how would a Buddhist respond? Of course, the first thing that comes to mind is, trying to rehabilitate the person, trying to help understand why they did what they did, not enforcing punishment.

It sounds wonderful in a book...but what if this happened to you? What if your beloved pet was killed by someone who had no regrets and would do it again in a heartbeat? What if your husband or wife were tortured and then murdered? Can we forgive these people? Can we really show them love and compassion? Would it make sense to rehabilitate them and let them go out into the public again? How fair would it be to put other lives at risk again?

Just wanted to know your thoughts on this and any Buddhist insight.

vinlyn

jll said:

dont underestimate a person's ability to
forgive.
in south africa, when apartheid ended,
a truth n reconciliation commission was conducted.
the atrocities performed during apartheid was forgiven.

...

I'm not sure the South Africa situation is as "cured" as you may think. Within the past week there was a long article somewhere on the net that speculated what would happen when Nelson Mandella died, and one prediction was that there would be a fresh outbreak of atrocities when he was no longer there to set the example.

maarten

Another thing to consider is that we are all in this boat together. Together we create society, and all our actions make contributions to this society. Our past lives have shaped society as it is today. I admire people that send out positive warm feelings to their environment, they are constantly "working" to bring awareness and kindness into the world. The more loving our society, the less abuse there will be.

federica

jll said:

....
closer to home , this woman was severely disabled
by her killer, but forgave him.
too bad, she is not buddhist.

http://www.oprah.com/showinfo/Why-I-Forgave-the-Man-Who-Shot-Me

The woman is every bit as Buddhist as any of us are.
it is not what a person is - it is what they do, that defines them.

music

federica said:

jll said:

....
closer to home , this woman was severely disabled
by her killer, but forgave him.
too bad, she is not buddhist.

http://www.oprah.com/showinfo/Why-I-Forgave-the-Man-Who-Shot-Me

The woman is every bit as Buddhist as any of us are.
it is not what a person is - it is what they do, that defines them.

If you do good, that makes you a good person. Nothing more, nothing less. But to be a Buddhist, at least the minimum requirement is to follow the basic ideas of the Buddha. Following universal values (golden rule, compassion, etc.) makes one a good person, no doubt, but let's not conflate that with Buddhism or any other religion.

karasti

A lot of people follow what we consider to be Buddhist principles, but really most religions have the same basic principles. There are a lot of people who are actually good people and are Christian, and if you told them their living a good life meant they were Buddhist they probably wouldn't like it much, lol. Behaving in a Buddhist manner doesn't make one a Buddhist. If that were true, then one could easily say that those of us practicing these principles are also good Christians and I doubt most would agree with that, either.

Jeffrey

I think a Buddhist has confidence that by training their awareness they can have wisdom, compassion, feel better and less afraid, etc..

jll

it is not what you but how you do it.
ie the attitude that really matters.

federica said:

jll said:

....
closer to home , this woman was severely disabled
by her killer, but forgave him.
too bad, she is not buddhist.

http://www.oprah.com/showinfo/Why-I-Forgave-the-Man-Who-Shot-Me

The woman is every bit as Buddhist as any of us are.
it is not what a person is - it is what they do, that defines them.