Is it wrong to close your eyes completely?

SillyPutty

For the life of me, I can't seem to get this whole "eyes partially closed" thing down pat while meditating. I feel like my eyes are going cross if I don't shut them. I don't feel in danger of falling asleep when I close my eyes, so is it acceptable form to keep them shut? Or is part of the practice getting over posture and form and the sort? I feel like I'm cheating by not trying to stick with it, but I used to have problems with my eyes in the past and I'm not entirely comfortable doing it. Although, who is comfortable starting out, especially trying to get into full lotus position and the sort, right?

:om:

federica

Forget 'trying' to achieve the lotus position in Meditation.
Stretch, sit and practise the Lotus Position - when you're NOT meditating.
Adopting the Lotus position should feel natural and comfortable.
If you have to make a strenuous effort to sit in it, maintain it and over-ride discomfort and pain - you shouldn't be doing it.

And do whatever you're comfortable doing, with your eyes.
Meditation should be a relaxed extension of your practice - not a physical ordeal that leaves you 'stressing' about what's right or not.

fivebells

It really depends on your objectives. What are you trying to develop in your meditation at this point?

riverflow

Most of the time I keep them half closed. If my eyes are feeling irritated for whatever reason (dust, allergies, too much incense) I'll close them at least for a little while. The main thing for me is with the eyes closed it is easier for me to get drowsy.

SillyPutty

fivebells said:

It really depends on your objectives. What are you trying to develop in your meditation at this point?

Well, I'm just starting out. That is an excellent question, and I don't even know the answer to it to be quite honest.

SillyPutty

riverflow said:

Most of the time I keep them half closed. If my eyes are feeling irritated for whatever reason (dust, allergies, too much incense) I'll close them at least for a little while. The main thing for me is with the eyes closed it is easier for me to get drowsy.

Thanks, @riverflow. I have bad allergies, too. Stopped wearing contacts because I just got so sick of all the allergens getting trapped behind the lenses and inflaming my eyes and giving me dark blue circles beneath them. Incense aggravates the allergies even more so. Can't imagine keeping my eyes partially opened while that's burning-- I'd be crying the entire time.

fivebells

If you're just starting out, it doesn't matter whether your eyes are open or closed. Arrange yourself in whatever way makes it easiest to keep the breath in mind.

SillyPutty

fivebells said:

If you're just starting out, it doesn't matter whether your eyes are open or closed. Arrange yourself in whatever way makes it easiest to keep the breath in mind.

Thanks! I will do that then. I'm just one of those types of people that, if I train the wrong way in the beginning, it's harder to break the habit later on down the road. I taught myself how to play the piano when I was a child, and when people look at my finger positions they laugh at me. Just can't break the habit and go into proper form. I'm worried the same will happen with meditation, but I guess I'm just being too hard on myself since, after all, meditation isn't meant to be a judgmental experience.

Thanks!

riverflow

SillyPutty said:

I taught myself how to play the piano when I was a child, and when people look at my finger positions they laugh at me. Just can't break the habit and go into proper form.

I can relate -- its just like typing class! I was self taught and later when I was in university majoring in music composition, I would send my piano teacher in fits with my awkward fingering!

lobster

Is it wrong to close your eyes completely?

No.

It makes walking meditation hazadorous though.
You should try walking meditation before sitting.
http://buddhist-meditation-techniques.com/meditation/walking-meditation/

Use a timer
https://insighttimer.com/

You are probabably trying to sit for too long. A mantra meditation is a good way to develop focus, calm and effects initially.

kashi

Eyes.. .no eyes...no matter.. ..what about the blind?. ..legs....no legs....no matter...what about amputees? Focus your mind. That is all.

Lazy_eye

I've never heard of it being wrong to meditate with eyes closed. I don't do it that way simply because it makes me more prone to falling asleep!

lobster

initially focus equates to regular practice.
then attentive to a technique
then we can start meditating . . .

whatever is you at ease
is worth sitting for

Jeffrey

If it's your own method you decide. If you are practicing with a teacher try using their method. If the method is a kind of a problem then talk to the teacher about it. But in general a lot of Buddhists do both closed and open. Same thing with the mouth and the mudra of the hands.

lobster

The fool lotus does not work for most people in the West. The Burmese posture is fine with a cushion. If half or full lotus is comfortable - go for it. Most sangha will sit on the floor because that is the eastern tradition. That is why it is done.
Meditation is not an activity. It is the lack of activity. Just chill. Be attentive to the chill.
Sit more but try less.
Doing is the Western way.
Meditation is a bit like taking a dog for a walk without the dog. Or sitting by a river fishing, without a rod. Or waiting for a bus that you have no need to catch.

Hope that will open your eyes a little. Blinking is allowed . . .

Invincible_summer

@SillyPutty:

Just a personal anecdote:
When I started meditating, I followed the zazen form - very erect posture, hands in a mudra, eyes half-closed and softly gazing at a point ~3ft ahead on the floor. It was fine for zazen, where the focus of meditation was more along the lines of being aware of the present moment.

However, when I began dipping my toes into the samatha-vipassana pool, I found it very difficult to develop concentration without closing my eyes. If I was to focus on the breath entering my nose, for example, it was much easier for me to have that pointed concentration when my eyes were closed.

When I tried to do zazen with my eyes closed, I found it was quite easy for me to get sleepy, as I am not really focusing on anything in particular. So it seems that certain forms are more conducive to certain meditation styles... at least in my experience.

So, like others have said, it really depends on what your meditation goals are. Since you're new to the practice, I'd say play around with what works best for you, maybe even do some reading on different meditation styles (as well as trying them out) to see what sounds more up your alley.

rivercane

The way it was explained to me was that you should do this only if you feel more comfortable using this method. Just as some people prefer to keep there eyes completely open.

I never do that, but sometimes I will keep my eyes partially open, esp. if I'm in a dark room.

One reason I like to do that is I once read where certain Buddhist statues depict the Buddha with eyes half open to show that he was only minimally concerned with this life, and was mainly focused instead on nirvana/enlightenment, or something to that effect.

I agree, I find it to be a hard technique to master although it seems to come naturally to some.

Sabre

The difference between eyes open and eyes closed is small enough you won't train yourself wrongly. It'll be quite easy to adjust.

Eyes closed tends to be more calming and allow more focus, because there are less distractions. (calm and focus are the same thing basically).
Eyes open is what I do when I tend to fall asleep. (or I just sleep )

karasti

I try to do both, but I have a really hard time with eyes open. It's just too much input for me. One Lama mentioned that a lot of people, when they meditate with their eyes closed, are doing it for protection, so that if you meditate with your eyes closed, be aware of that and try not to fall into that. For Buddhist purposes, it's generally not a goal to use meditation to escape from yourself, but to face yourself, and in his estimation it's much easier for most people to escape rather than face themselves with their eyes closed.

Jeffrey

Meditation is like waiting in the dentists office.

Jeffrey

In some traditions the logic of eyes open is to open to everything. Make that lawnmower part of the meditation in other words. Opening to everything counter-intuitively is good for shamata because there is nothing that throws you off.



^^^ Pema Chodron on working with shenpa

Dakini

SillyPutty said:

For the life of me, I can't seem to get this whole "eyes partially closed" thing down pat while meditating. I feel like my eyes are going cross if I don't shut them. I don't feel in danger of falling asleep when I close my eyes, so is it acceptable form to keep them shut? Or is part of the practice getting over posture and form and the sort? I feel like I'm cheating by not trying to stick with it, but I used to have problems with my eyes in the past and I'm not entirely comfortable doing it. Although, who is comfortable starting out, especially trying to get into full lotus position and the sort, right?

:om:

Who told you you have to keep your eyes partially open? There is no right or wrong. If closing your eyes works for you, go for it. That's often best for beginners, anyway. There are fewer distractions that way.

SillyPutty

Dakini said:

Who told you you have to keep your eyes partially open?

... Google.

Dakini

SillyPutty said:

Dakini said:

Who told you you have to keep your eyes partially open?

... Google.

Well, that's interesting. In the Tibetan tradition, some instruct to keep the eyes partially open, but in Zen, the eyes are closed. In any case, I think it's best for beginners to keep their eyes closed. If keeping them closed helps you further your practice, then by all means, do what works. :thumbsup:

SillyPutty

Dakini said:

SillyPutty said:

Dakini said:

Who told you you have to keep your eyes partially open?

... Google.

Well, that's interesting. In the Tibetan tradition, some instruct to keep the eyes partially open, but in Zen, the eyes are closed. In any case, I think it's best for beginners to keep their eyes closed. If keeping them closed helps you further your practice, then by all means, do what works. :thumbsup:

Wow that's weird because I read the opposite-- that zen teaches partially closed eyes. Actually I thought all traditions taught that. It's good to know that closed eyes are an acceptable option.

Jeffrey

It does have a consequence to the mind. The posture does, but I wouldn't emphasize posture since awareness is there regardless.

Invincible_summer

@Dakini - What Zen tradition teaches to close the eyes? I guess it may depend on the teacher, but from my experience and from reading a bunch of stuff, Zen is mainly eyes partially open.

footiam

SillyPutty said:

For the life of me, I can't seem to get this whole "eyes partially closed" thing down pat while meditating. I feel like my eyes are going cross if I don't shut them. I don't feel in danger of falling asleep when I close my eyes, so is it acceptable form to keep them shut? Or is part of the practice getting over posture and form and the sort? I feel like I'm cheating by not trying to stick with it, but I used to have problems with my eyes in the past and I'm not entirely comfortable doing it. Although, who is comfortable starting out, especially trying to get into full lotus position and the sort, right?


:om:

This reminds me of my landlord of eons ago. He could not close his eyes properly because a muscle in his eye is said to be not functioning. I suppose you only have to worry if you can get your whole "eyes partially closed" . But say- what has closing your eyes partially to do with meditation? Trying to peep or something?

Florian

I also cannot sit for long with open eyes. It actually becomes quite painful and quite quickly. I'm told it's more difficult for people who wear glasses. I don't suppose it matters very much, but I'd actually like to keep my eyes partially open if I could.

Chrysalid

Eyes partially closed does feel a bit weird, especially as you can see the horizontal line of the eyelid it can be hard not to spend more time concentrating on that than your breath, or whatever meditation you're doing.
I meditate with my eyes fully open, if I have them closed I get drowsy. Do whatever comes naturally.

Also, don't force yourself into full lotus position, you'll damage your knees. The full lotus position causes the knees to bend in at an unnatural angle, if (like me) you're not sufficiently flexible you'll do yourself an injury. People say it's traditionally the best position for meditation, but then people have traditionally been eating tiger willies for centuries to increase sex drive, tradition doesn't necessarily equate to best practice.

Florian

Good advice. It tooks a year for my knees to recover from a long period of trying to achieve a full lotus position, and one is still a little dodgy. I reckon I gave up just in time.

SillyPutty

Just wanted to pop back in here and clarify my original post-- I don't do full lotus. Now that I've re-read what I wrote, it may have come off that way. Not that it's important whether or not I partake in full louts, but I was just trying to illustrate that I can't even keep my eyes half-opened, let alone do something as intense as a full lotus while meditating. I can't do either. Heck-- keeping my back straight is hard enough right now, let alone worrying about where my legs are. I'm lucky I don't roll off of my zafu.

lamaramadingdong

Ironically, I find that I "see" less with my eyes open during meditation than I do with them closed.

BonsaiDoug

"Remember, nothing in the practice of meditation is ever forced on you. The only compulsion comes from an inner force: your own desire to be free from self-inflicted suffering and stress."
~ Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Dakini

Invincible_summer said:

@Dakini - What Zen tradition teaches to close the eyes? I guess it may depend on the teacher, but from my experience and from reading a bunch of stuff, Zen is mainly eyes partially open.

At the Zen center where I go, people close their eyes. Also, Stephen and Martine Batchelor teach to close the eyes. And I think Jack Kornfield does, too; I'm not sure if he's exclusively Zen or not. But at all the Tibetan centers I've been to, people close their eyes. No one's actually offered instruction at those centers, though. I saw the DL say in a film that the eyes should be partially open.

lobster

I'm lucky I don't roll off of my zafu

Roll on, roll off . . .
. . . wait a minute that is Roshi Miyagi
"Wax on. Wax off."

Bubble Bath Meditation, cucumber slices, solve the eye problem
http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/17765/bubble-bath-meditation

karmablues

SillyPutty said:

Wow that's weird because I read the opposite-- that zen teaches partially closed eyes. Actually I thought all traditions taught that. It's good to know that closed eyes are an acceptable option.

I've always been taught to keep eyes closed in sitting meditation unless you are sleepy then you can keep them open or switch to walking meditation. Reading this thread is the first time I've heard about the option to partially close the eyes.

In the Maha-satipatthana Sutta, the Buddha taught us to maintain mindfulness in all postures (standing, walking, sitting, lying down) as well as during all activities which he specifically includes the act of looking around with the eyes and also that of falling asleep which means we should develop the ability to remain focused and aware when the eyes are open as well as when they are closed.