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A Koan...

Some teachers will tell you to meditate on "who am i?"
I've heard a different technique. ...try "what is this? "

Meditate well.

Comments

  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    Why?
  • Why ask why
  • Ill answer anyway....the more we hear the word "I" the more we attachment we have to it. So to tell a person to ask themselves who am I they are going to focus even more on "i".
    If you change the word from "who" to "what" "i" to "this" the person will be less likely to come up with an answer to self. Open the door that leads to non self.

    Or.. ..another koan could be "who am I not"
    rivercane
  • NevermindNevermind Bitter & Hateful Veteran
    For added value try putting an s before well, that'd be swell.
    kashi
  • FlorianFlorian Veteran
    edited May 2013
    Is this a koan? It seems like just a question.
  • A very well known koan is "does a dog have buddha nature? "
    So @Florian doesn't that also sound like just a question?
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    I have always preferred "What is this" over "What am I". "What am I" always seemed too self centered. "I" refers to just me, but "this" refers to everything in the entire universe. It's much more expansive IMO. :)
    Florian said:

    Is this a koan? It seems like just a question.

    Technically it's called a "Hua Tou" and is used in Hua Tou practice, which is very similar to koan practice. :)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hua_Tou

    kashiInvincible_summer
  • I often ask myself, "What is really going on?". As in, what is the true underlying reality behind all this illusion.
  • When was I born?
    riverflowInvincible_summer
  • BeejBeej Human Being Veteran
    edited May 2013
    i occasionally ask, "what is this?". the answer proves ellusive. this feels like i am teaching myself something..... though its not always evident what it is. impermanence, i suppose. or i cant quite answer the question without lots of otherly referencing which takes apart the whole exercise and brings me back to the original question. And in this way, i feel humbled. I guess theres a whole lotta "not self" to be found in that question: "What is this?" :)
    kashi
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    the more we hear the word "I" the more we attachment we have to it.
    @kashi -- Uhhhhh ... sez who?

    The way I see it, you can be as attached as you like (knock yourself out!) or you can run away as fast as you can (find a nifty spiritual framework in which to couch it) ... either way, you're screwed.
    Invincible_summer
  • It is true. Even if for a split mili second, the thought of self aries when we hear "self" "I" "me" etc.
    Even just reading the newspaper, you have dislikes, or likes, or some view of self attached to those likes or dislikes. Why? because we still think there is an "I" who is reading the newspaper . An "I" who is laughing at the comic section. "I" who is cutting out coupons.
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    Why? because we still think there is an "I"...
    @Kashi -- No offense, but I would be more convinced by the observation if it omitted the use of the word "we." I don't know about you, but I have a hard enough time speaking for myself without pretending to know what is true for others.
    lobster
  • @genkaku
    This is not some random shit im making up. The Buddha taught that there is this problem. Its universal. The Buddha said this about every single unenlightend person.
    I speak for myself as well.
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    edited May 2013
    The Buddha taught that there is this problem.
    @kashi -- And which Buddha is that? Is it the one that kashi believes in or is it kashi unadorned?

    Since, if the problem as you say, is "universal," then the Buddha would have the same problem. Did/does the Buddha you refer to have this problem or not? If yes, then is/was s/he the Buddha? And if not, on what basis do you say so?

    If belief is to be the yardstick, did the Buddha you credit believe? Sounds iffy to me, but I've always been a skeptical Sally.
  • edited May 2013
    What Buddhism do you follow? seriously...are these questions a joke or are you using some kind of strange "zen" that ive never heard of? Not trying to be an ass here, but really...buddhism teaches we have a delusional idea of "self"..and that causes suffering. It pasted all over the four noble truths
  • And YES Buddha HAD the same problem UNTIL he became enlightened
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    I was given this as a meditation one time. The next breath I would say to myself "that too is not me". But yeah this isn't esoteric method.
    kashi
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    It's the nature of mind to think just like it's the nature of the sky to have clouds.
    ~Pema Chodron



    ^^^Pema Chodron on shenpa
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    ^^^ wrong thread :o
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    The 4 NT and 8 fold were given in the first sermon of the Buddha in deer park to his old friends (or associates). He probably wouldn't give that if his friends weren't seasoned awareness practitioners. My teacher says it is not the four truths. It is the four noble truths and the noble view isn't there right away. She says that the eightfold path doesn't start until a worldshaking glimpse of something, not sure what, occurs to the practioner. She still teaches elements that feed the eightfold or fit with it. For example keeping your word to yourself and others helps right effort. But until the noble view it is just effort, not right effort. In the preceding sentence I take that in light of what trungpa said of the meaning of 'right'. He defines it as 'encompassing'.

    I post all this stuff from my sangha's view and I know nobody is on the same page. I guess I just like to talk to the universe and myself.
    riverflowInvincible_summer
  • @genkaku
    However much I agree to the this very insightful metaphor of bikes and practice, the helping hands, however long do help, are part of the process. In the beginning. To some those helping hands are doctrine of Buddhas Dharma.
    Others maybe something else.
    But, it is in my opinion, foolish to let go too soon in this world of barb wire.
    The child too young, needing training wheels, and next the helping hands. Least he falls and smashes his face into the pavement. Later on, he is on his own.
    Can we agree?
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    Can we agree?
    @kashi -- Certainly. Delight and danger are a package deal: There is no such thing as something so good that it cannot be put to bad uses. And vice versa.

    But there is something to be said for remembering Ta Hui's appreciation from an earlier time: "I have always taken a great vow that I would rather suffer the fires of hell for all eternity than to portray Zen as a human emotion." Intellectually and emotionally, this may seem cold and hard. But in reality...?
  • Not at all. That actually is crystal clear and its the very first time I have seen that quote
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited May 2013
    I would think though, @genkaku, that we will always have to have emotions thus we cannot avoid them altogether. They have something to tell us quite often. My teacher teaches that everything is bodhicitta as subject to distortions of view and reactions (emotions) from such distortions. But I do take Ta Hui's remarks to heart and it is important to give a correct, so called pure, teaching.
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    @Jeffrey -- I don't think Ta Hui was saying anyone would/could/or should be emotionless. That would be stupid. Anyone who has been around the Buddhist block has probably run into people who tried to act the part ... very serene and all that. But there are also those who try to cram Buddhism into a yum-yum format, being so 'compassionate' that it makes you want to run for a bottle of Tums.

    I dunno ... it just strikes me as something to keep an eye on.
    lobster
  • BeejBeej Human Being Veteran
    Zen is as haunting as it is liberating. It does feel like an endless task, because it is. And sometimes the rocks that it overturns and peers beneath dont fit very nicely into whatever we may have been expecting... this is where the work comes in. In a bubble, Zen is very good. In Philadelphia, at rush hour, with me on an actual bike, Zen is hard work. I will take whatever help I can get, at that point, be it spinach or a sidewalk. 84,000? Sure, fine. But all YOU need is 1.

    Disclaimer: This was a jazz riff in the key of "huh?" :)
    kashilobster
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