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What do 'buddhists' think of the YIN YANG defining Duality!!?!

The yin and yang defines duality...

Buddhism teaches we need to step 'beyond' duality... (For everything is one)

I see truth in yin and yang duality, but also see truth that we need to step beyond duality...

Am i missing 'something' somewhere?

Comments

  • FlorianFlorian Veteran
    I don't think you're missing anything. Yin and Yang are often likened to the two faces of a mountain, one in sunlight and one in shadow. And as well as these, or instead of these, there is the mountain.

    I'll go check the Theravada doctrine about this, not being well up on the differences between the schools, since I would be very shocked if it turned out to be dualism as suggested.
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    Florian said:

    I don't think you're missing anything. Yin and Yang are often likened to the two faces of a mountain, one in sunlight and one in shadow. And as well as these, or instead of these, there is the mountain.

    I'll go check the Theravada doctrine about this, not being well up on the differences between the schools, since I would be very shocked if it turned out to be dualism as suggested.

    I do know that when the topic of Non-Duality has been aired on Dhamma Wheel the inquirer has often been vigorously ....answered. ;)
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited June 2013
    In Tibetan lore, if I recall, yang is black and represents the male supportive quality. Yin is female and represents the awakened mind that cuts through. A sword the handle and back of blade is yang and the sharp edge is yin. It's like meditation and insight.

    Someone posted a link where yin was the resting phase and yang the active. Kind of opposite of Tibetan lore (iirc).
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    zenmyste said:


    Am i missing 'something' somewhere?

    Look at the symbol some more. The seed of each is in the other. More importantly if spinning, at the point of maximum Yang (the head of the 'tadpole') it turns to Yin which starts to grow and then . . .
    This is why becoming an extreme, is bringing us closer to its opposite . . .
    Did anyone mention the a middle way lately?
    :clap:
    rivercaneFosdick
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    I think the great Tao is considered beyond yin and yang?
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    The great Tao is the interplay of yin and yang.

    Nothing in the world is softer and more supple than water, Yet when attacking the hard and the strong, nothing can surpass it. The supple overcomes the hard. The soft overcomes the strong. —Lao Tzu

    http://www.chuckrowtaichi.com/AboutYinYang.html
    Fosdick
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    lobster said:

    The great Tao is the interplay of yin and yang.

    Nothing in the world is softer and more supple than water, Yet when attacking the hard and the strong, nothing can surpass it. The supple overcomes the hard. The soft overcomes the strong. —Lao Tzu

    http://www.chuckrowtaichi.com/AboutYinYang.html

    Even better. Buddhism's emptiness is in forms and not beyond them too.
    lobster
  • FlorianFlorian Veteran
    edited June 2013
    person said:

    I think the great Tao is considered beyond yin and yang?

    It is by me, for what that's worth. Same as Nibbana in the Abhidharma. For me true mysticism would always be the attempt to transcend dualism. But I'm aware that not everyone would agree.

    I'm not sure it would be correct to state the the great Tao is the interplay of Yin and Yang since Lao Tsu does not say this. He says that it cannot be spoken except inadequately and by reference to the coincidence of opposites. Hence 'true words seem paradoxical'. This suggests the lack of inherent existence of Yin and Yang. But we'll all have our interpretations.
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    I'm not sure it would be correct to state the the great Tao is the interplay of Yin and Yang
    It is not correct. However when I am silent no one listens . . . ;)
    CinorjerFosdick
  • FlorianFlorian Veteran
    Aha. I tend to just wade in like a fool. I suspect silence would often be a better idea.

  • footiamfootiam Veteran
    zenmyste said:

    The yin and yang defines duality...

    Buddhism teaches we need to step 'beyond' duality... (For everything is one)

    I see truth in yin and yang duality, but also see truth that we need to step beyond duality...

    Am i missing 'something' somewhere?

    I don't think you are missing anything. Buddhism may say this and that. In the end, you have to do the interpretation yourself and also the decision. You are after all the one who walk the path and of course, something could be very right in one situation and very wrong in another.
    zenmyste
  • Just abit confused here, you say
    ourself said:

    The yin yang shows how we can step beyond duality as well as there are no true opposites.

    But then you say;
    ourself said:

    Yin flows into yang and vice versa

    So if there was no duality then how can Yin flow 'into' Yang??

    There would be nothing to flow 'into' !

    And then you say;
    ourself said:

    The yin yang is one, not two..

    But again, if there isnt two then how can one go into the 'other'
    'Other' indicates that there is infact Two
    and TWO = duality

    Then you say;
    ourself said:

    Yin may be the opposite of yang but there is no opposite of yin yang except no yin yang.

    But i thought youve just said Yin and Yang are one, not two... Now you say yin 'may' the opposite of yang...?

    When you say;
    ourself said:

    But there is no opposite of yin yang except no yin yang.

    Now your stating the obvious, because of course there is no opposite of Something that is stating 'opposites'

    As you then stated;
    ourself said:

    Just as there is no opposite of apple except no apple

    Its kinda stating the obvious here and i dont understand what you are getting at! Its probably me abit confused but what im thinking is that everybody contradicts themselves, even when they are talking 'truth' i still think 'truth' is sometimes a contradiction!
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    @Florian.
    Well said.
    The Tao that can be spoken (expressed in words)
    Is not the constant (eternal) Tao
    The Name that can be named
    Is not the eternal Name


    There is paradox but no opposition, no contradiction, in speaking of the ineffable. What is the way (Tao)?

    Since awareness has no objective relationship of any kind,
    no specific direction or focus,
    the individual might as well love everyone.

    Since vision and commitment to vision
    have nothing to do with complacency or fear,
    the individual might as well be joyous.

    Since action and goals have nothing to do with success or failure,
    hope and anxiety,
    and it doesn't matter whether they are won or lost ,
    the individual might as well feel content.

    Since everything is an illusion --
    with some more perfect than others --
    with no relationship to good or bad ,
    being or not-being ,
    one might as well
    laugh from beginning to end.


    — Longchenpa, 1308-1363, Tibetan scholar, master of the Nyingma tradition
    Davidperson
  • FlorianFlorian Veteran
    Very nice quote @lobster.

    One ramification of Nagarjuna's proof of the absurdity of all extreme positions is that there could be no true contradictions. Thus Buddhist doctrine and its equivalents is the the only one whose reasonableness or logical soundness can be demonstrated. This makes it invincible in philosophy.
    Davidperson
  • Peace with all of you, I shall comment that it is my take on things that when people speak about the duality of yin-yang, and the non-duality of Buddhism (or the duality that must be trascended) it is different dualities that are been talked about. My apologies if this has been already said, I did read all the wise posts before mine, so I might be adding very little.
    Ying-yang theory was born to explain the natural process of nature, and later on applied to medicine, in particular herb therapy and acupuncture, and consolidated as the foundation for phylosophical view on reality too. However, it was born to explain natural phenomena, and it is a wonderful theory that many more people should know. I know I do at some extent, me being a doc with traditional chinese medicine training (but it is at baking cheese cake that I excell on) :)
    The duality exposed in ying yang theory is that between complementary forces that interact, coexist, and inhabit each other.
    The duality named in Dharma...is another story. As far as I have been kindly taught, this duality is the one that is risen between subject and object, that is, between the object of perception and the mind perceiving it. The difference between them would be then illusory, artificial, and a mistaken view since it makes believe that objects exist by themselves, separated from the mind, with inherent existance. This perceived duality is to be abandoned, so the true existance of phenomena, their lack of inherent existance, can be realized directly. First by the conscious mind, then by the subtle mind, and finally, by the very subtle mind, whose only object of perception would be emptiness, and the subject, the mind, great bliss. The union of both, the lack of a gap between great bliss and emptiness, equals enlightenment, according to my beloved Teachers. (I am still trying to achieve even the first steps of it all).

    Anyway, that is my take on things, and I hope that my words help in anything.

    May you bring inspiration to all sentient beings.
    FlorianpersonJeffrey
  • FlorianFlorian Veteran
    Some great posts here. Maybe relevant is the philosophical truism that in order for things to be different they must be identical at some level, and in order for them to be identical they must be different at some level. This is an idea that is found in all philosophy, east and west, since it is a result of analysis. So Yin and Yang would be identical and different, not just one or the other.
    johnathan
  • @zenmyste said:
    The yin and yang defines duality...

    Buddhism teaches we need to step 'beyond' duality... (For everything is one)

    I see truth in yin and yang duality, but also see truth that we need to step beyond duality...

    Am i missing 'something' somewhere?

    I think it is absolutly a part of the Dharma. It is not a part of Buddhism.

  • @Florian said:
    Aha. I tend to just wade in like a fool. I suspect silence would often be a better idea.

    That would make for a very boring forum, though. A bunch of people posting blank posts?

  • For the OT, I don't think many Buddhists have a problem with the concept of yin and yang but might go on to say it's pointing to the illusion of reality we are fooled by instead of a universal principle.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited October 2016
This discussion has been closed.