Pain and detachment

betaboy

I currently have multiple ulcers in my mouth - thanks to an extraction gone wrong - and I am wondering whether there is any technique to detach oneself from the body (so as to minimize the pain).

Philosphy goes out the window when there is actual physical pain - practicality matters, and in this respect I don't think Buddhism or any religion has given an adequate answer. Sad but true. It is all about achieving this or that after death, but no practical advice on how to deal with things while still alive and breathing.

federica

Use a hot-salt mouthwash and don't be afraid to take painkillers.

Pain may occur, but suffering is optional.
Nobody says anywhere you have to endure pain.

Detachment is simple.
be aware that this shall pass.
The body's mechanisms for healing a mouth are extraordinary.
Wounds and afflictions of the mouth heal quite quickly.
It's a survival thing.
We need to consume nourishment in order to survive, so the mouth heals more quickly than other areas, in order to be able to process nourishment.
but keep it clean, and help the process.

It WILL pass.

Jeffrey

I find, in pain, chanting helps. Sorry it is hurting. Maybe say 'there is pain' rather than 'I can't stand it'... or say 'I hate this pain'

lobster

O w w w w w . . . [ used as a screaming mantra ]

cats use it like this
me ow www
me ow www
me ow www

me ow www
me ow www
me ow www

me ow www
me ow www
me ow www

Were you distracted? There is your clue.

Citta

betaboy said:

I currently have multiple ulcers in my mouth - thanks to an extraction gone wrong - and I am wondering whether there is any technique to detach oneself from the body (so as to minimize the pain).

Philosphy goes out the window when there is actual physical pain - practicality matters, and in this respect I don't think Buddhism or any religion has given an adequate answer. Sad but true. It is all about achieving this or that after death, but no practical advice on how to deal with things while still alive and breathing.

Buddhism is not there to cure your physical pain. Buddhism is there to cure the idea of YOU.
In the meantime your local pharmacy will have lots of remedies for mouth ulcers.
While you are at the pharmacy buy some soluble vitamin C and take one every day.

lobster

You can use self hypnosis for pain relief but not whilst in agony . . .

hypnotist : You are feeling relaxed . . . etc
betaboy : [strangling cat] me ow w w w w!

betaboy

I am already taking painkillers, even saw the dentist again. But the pain is pretty bad, he says it will last 4 more days before it heals. But anyway, isn't it a cop out to say Buddhism is not there to cure physical pain? We are physical beings, even our emotional and mental states are reduced to the physical organism - so ignoring that is like ignoring 90% of what it means to be human.

Citta

No its not a cop-out to say that Buddhism is not there to cure physical pain. Because it isn't.
What it can do is modify our reaction to any form of suffering. But there is no quick fix.
Pain is a good teacher of patience. You have a great opportunity to learn its lessons.

wrathfuldeity

Psychology...not Buddhism or philosophy:

pain is merely a sensation....you choose to interpert the sensation as suffering. When a person first gets hurt, e.g. cuts a finger...its merely a sensation...its not till later that one experiences the sensation as pain. In extreme pain/trauma often a person dissociates or enters a fugue state.

what ever the sensation...pain, pleasure...whatever it is, the is body expereincing it, and you as the witness/consciousness can be detached and merely observing or you can be sucked in and focusing on experiencing the pain. The counter is to draw the attentional focus on something else and become absorbed, i.e., hypnosis

when you have pain...focus on your breath...become absorbed in your breathing...nice and stable...in and out...where does the pain go? (self or auto-hypnosis)

And for folks who have little or no hypnotic susceptibility .....use pain relievers.

Victorious

Of course there is a remedy. But it will not work all in a hurry and it is not a "total cure". Do cultivation with the body as the object and then the elements as the object. Have you done that? Do you know how? It will help you distance yourself from the pain even if you feel it. But it takes some cultivating to get there.

Buddhist cultivation will help you loose your attachment to the pain. Not remove it. At least that is my experience.


Then there are a couple of mind tricks that sometimes helps (me).

1. Use the same method of "returning to focus" that you use in samatha practise to move the mind focus to another object than the pain and keep it there. I.e. ignore the pain.

2. Focus on the pain and ask yourself who is feeling it? Tell yourself "the pain is one thing" and you are another. In your mind feel the entirety of the body and move the pain outside it. Strange as it sounds this has helped me the most times. But the success in this I feel is connected to how far cultivation using the body as object has come

But let me tell you that only the first practise (cultivation using the body as an object) developed properly will help relieve longlasting pain some.

I have had some practise at pain both longlasting and short, both with success and less success. And the most difficult pain is that which lasts a long time like small dull pains lasting for years compared to sharp pains lasting for less than a week. And pains in my mouth has been the most difficult to master since they are so sharp and feel "so close".


And practically. If you are already using painkillers. Try sesamy seed oil on some cotton. That should relieve the pain and help healing.

Lastly see this as an fantastic opportunity to test how far your cultivation has come. If you can properly seal out/in the pain and continue your normal routine then you now you have come some distance on the path.


Good luck.
Victor

wrathfuldeity

@Victorious what he says...especially point #2

DairyLama

betaboy said:

... isn't it a cop out to say Buddhism is not there to cure physical pain?

In a way, yes.

Florian

The practice of detachment helps us deal with physical pain. I found this out forty years before discovering Buddhism. During a period of intense pain I found that there is a place one can go which is apart from the pain, where one can stand and look back at it and simply observe, without having to own it. It's still there, but it belongs to someone else. In hindsight I see this was a significant discovery, and I do not regret the pain for teaching me this.

Victorious

Florian said:

The practice of detachment helps us deal with physical pain. I found this out forty years before discovering Buddhism. During a period of intense pain I found that there is a place one can go which is apart from the pain, where one can stand and look back at it and simply observe, without having to own it. It's still there, but it belongs to someone else. In hindsight I see this was a significant discovery, and I do not regret the pain for teaching me this.

My uncle thaught me that. Awsome that you found it by yourself. But as you say I do not think it is particularly buddhist...?

DairyLama

Florian said:

During a period of intense pain I found that there is a place one can go which is apart from the pain, where one can stand and look back at it and simply observe, without having to own it.

I've had this experience short-term, but it hasn't helped with chronic pain.

betaboy

Florian said:

The practice of detachment helps us deal with physical pain. I found this out forty years before discovering Buddhism. During a period of intense pain I found that there is a place one can go which is apart from the pain, where one can stand and look back at it and simply observe, without having to own it. It's still there, but it belongs to someone else. In hindsight I see this was a significant discovery, and I do not regret the pain for teaching me this.

How exactly does one do this?

wrathfuldeity

How exactly does one do this?

Perhaps focus you attention on your happy place and once there, then merely observe the sensation as a white puffy cloud

taiyaki

One thing that helps is how you relate to the pain.

Bring in kindness and equanimity. Just observe it with a very loving and kind attention.

Focus around it and examine the areas other than the pain. Is there tension, give loving kindness.

Then examine the pain. Is this something I control? No.

Is this mine? Is this me?

No just pain sensation.

Not my business, relax, let go, be kind.

This can build like a momentum and the pain can vanish, but it takes practice and sincerity.

Good luck.

taiyaki

In many ways we all want results in meditation but we go about the wrong way or rather unskillful way. This isn't to say the typical way doesn't work, it just isn't efficient.

One thing we should consider is when there is pain obviously we should see a doctor but if we see that it has a specific cause and meditation can be of benefit then we should consider responding it from an indirect way rather than a direct way.

Examine the causes and conditions at play, rather than focusing completely on the pain itself. Examine how the attention molds the experience, how expectation molds the experience, how we are bringing baggage onto the physical sensations.

Do I want to get rid of the pain and is this aversion cultivating the pain to be more and more solid. And yet we get more mad, more pissed that this is happening.

If we can be kind and just observe we can learn a lot from pain. It is in fact the best object of meditation when it comes to investigation because it is obvious. We can investigate the three marks, bringing them to the forefront of our attention and one by one see how the experience of pain is of the three marks.

We can completely defocus from the pain and focus on some other reference point, say like the breath.

A key insight is how we in the present feed into the momentum of the pain and thus recreate it moment by moment.

If that is seen then one can see how if we respond differently or change variables then the pain or effect can change as well.

In many ways it requires a bit of creativity, patience and a willingness to explore.

Pain though obvious, though clear isn't what it seems.

There isn't a quick cure, well medication lol. But the value in Buddhism is the insight gained through investigation. Because if we really understand the nature of suffering then we can truly see a path way out.

Good day.

Victorious

betaboy said:

Florian said:

The practice of detachment helps us deal with physical pain. I found this out forty years before discovering Buddhism. During a period of intense pain I found that there is a place one can go which is apart from the pain, where one can stand and look back at it and simply observe, without having to own it. It's still there, but it belongs to someone else. In hindsight I see this was a significant discovery, and I do not regret the pain for teaching me this.

How exactly does one do this?

I think it is about the same thing I meant as nr 2.

It is about seperating the self from the pain. Refusing to accept the pain as a part of the Me experience. It is easier to try it than to explain how.

I find it extremely interesting that so many here seem to know the technique! I more or less thought I was alone about it.

But I find it difficult to do with pain in the mouth (or head) since that pain is so "close" to the Me experience.

/Victor

Victorious

I think taiyaki:s method above is a very good one to try!

Jeffrey

You could breath in the pain which is similar to tonglen and mindfulness. On the outbreath find the space of your heart or citta to hold the pain. Thich Nhat Hanh teaches to cradle the pain with loving kindness like a mother with a babe.

pegembara

It is all about achieving this or that after death, but no practical advice on how to deal with things while still alive and breathing.

Meditation programs teach how to battle pain
http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/meditation-programs-teach-how-to-battle-pain-with-brain-power-1.1258036

Meditation and pain management
http://www.wildmind.org/applied/pain

Florian

betaboy said:

Florian said:

The practice of detachment helps us deal with physical pain. I found this out forty years before discovering Buddhism. During a period of intense pain I found that there is a place one can go which is apart from the pain, where one can stand and look back at it and simply observe, without having to own it. It's still there, but it belongs to someone else. In hindsight I see this was a significant discovery, and I do not regret the pain for teaching me this.

How exactly does one do this?

It was a long time ago and my memory is dim. I would go about it differently now. But at the time - it was by focusing intently on the pain. Not attempting to avoid it, but looking it square in the face, embracing it if you like. I suspect that aversion is counterproductive. It was pain, but it was not 'my' pain, as if there was someone called 'me' who was feeling it. It was pain. No value judgements involved. Tomorrow it might be pleasure. After all, who decides what feels like pleasure and what feels like pain?

I used to think this related to that phenomenon where you repeat a word continually and eventually the word loses all its meaning. Not so sure now but maybe there is a connection. By focusing intently on the pain in a non-reactive way, and not fighting against it, just noting it, it seems to become more like an object under a microscope than a terrible feeling.

Looking back I see it as an enlightenment experience, a moment when I noticed that things are not quite as they seem. So when I found|Buddhism decades later it immediately made sense of this teenage experience. The pain was enough to make me pass out on more than one occasion, but I look back on it with gratitude now. It's a funny old world.

Mind you, I tried this during a recent operation, which included all sorts of complications, and was a lot less successful. The first time around the pain was recurrent over a couple of years so I had more time to practice.

seeker242

A person in our Sangha told a story about the time when he was robbed at gunpoint and was shot in the chest. Was in the hospital for weeks. He said it was the most intense pain he's ever felt in his whole life. Of course, they had him on painkillers but they still can't take away all the pain or even most of it. The only thing he said that he could do himself, that actually helped, was meditation practices that he did laying there in his hospital bed.

But generally speaking, the "Buddhist way" to deal with pain is to prepare your mind with meditation practice beforehand. So when you experience the pain, you already have the ability to detach. You have already gained the skill in detaching from feelings and sensations during meditation practice and then you take that skill and apply it to the pain. So you could say that the practical "Buddhist way" is really "preemptive detachment" which results in a mindset that does not resist pain but completely accepts it without aversion.

Although, simple breathing meditation can still help even if you haven't done it before or gained much skill in it. But of course, it won't be as helpful if the skill is gained beforehand.

Good article!

Using Meditation to Deal with Pain, Illness & Death
by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/painhelp.html


One of the more popular Buddhist scriptures about it.

Sallatha Sutta: The Arrow


"Monks, an uninstructed run-of-the-mill person feels feelings of pleasure, feelings of pain, ... A well-instructed disciple of the noble ones also feels feelings of pleasure, feelings of pain, ... So what difference... is there between the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones and the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person?"

The Blessed One said, "When touched with a feeling of pain, the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person sorrows, grieves, & laments, beats his breast, becomes distraught. So he feels two pains, physical & mental. Just as if they were to shoot a man with an arrow and, right afterward, were to shoot him with another one, so that he would feel the pains of two arrows; in the same way, when touched with a feeling of pain, the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person sorrows, grieves, & laments, beats his breast, becomes distraught. So he feels two pains, physical & mental.

"As he is touched by that painful feeling, he is resistant. Any resistance-obsession with regard to that painful feeling obsesses him. Touched by that painful feeling, he delights in sensual pleasure. Why is that? Because the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person does not discern any escape from painful feeling aside from sensual pleasure. As he is delighting in sensual pleasure, any passion-obsession with regard to that feeling of pleasure obsesses him. He does not discern, as it actually is present, the origination, passing away, allure, drawback, or escape from that feeling. As he does not discern the origination, passing away, allure, drawback, or escape from that feeling, then any ignorance-obsession with regard to that feeling of neither-pleasure-nor-pain obsesses him.

"Sensing a feeling of pleasure, he senses it as though joined with it. Sensing a feeling of pain, he senses it as though joined with it. Sensing a feeling of neither-pleasure-nor-pain, he senses it as though joined with it. This is called an uninstructed run-of-the-mill person joined with birth, aging, & death; with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs. He is joined, I tell you, with suffering & stress.

"Now, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones, when touched with a feeling of pain, does not sorrow, grieve, or lament, does not beat his breast or become distraught. So he feels one pain: physical, but not mental. Just as if they were to shoot a man with an arrow and, right afterward, did not shoot him with another one, so that he would feel the pain of only one arrow. In the same way, when touched with a feeling of pain, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones does not sorrow, grieve, or lament, does not beat his breast or become distraught. He feels one pain: physical, but not mental.

"As he is touched by that painful feeling, he is not resistant. No resistance-obsession with regard to that painful feeling obsesses him. Touched by that painful feeling, he does not delight in sensual pleasure. Why is that? Because the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones discerns an escape from painful feeling aside from sensual pleasure. As he is not delighting in sensual pleasure, no passion-obsession with regard to that feeling of pleasure obsesses him. He discerns, as it actually is present, the origination, passing away, allure, drawback, and escape from that feeling. As he discerns the origination, passing away, allure, drawback, and escape from that feeling, no ignorance-obsession with regard to that feeling of neither-pleasure-nor-pain obsesses him.

The "practical" part of Buddhism is to train yourself so that you only experience one arrow strike, and not two arrow strikes before the archer even enters the room. But of course, to cultivate that takes practice.

But to cultivate it while in the midst of pain can still be most helpful. Just a simple breathing meditation can help cultivate it.

Tosh

betaboy said:

How exactly does one do this?

I can't do it, but I think it begins with meditation. Meditation at some point becomes uncomfortable physically; maybe our knee starts to ache. I don't meditate through pain, but I won't give up at the first sign of it either.

I try to watch the pain without getting involved with it. Try seeing it's there, but try not to add that overlay of 'why me?' or any other kind of thinking to it. Be accepting of it.

I try similar when I run and I'm tired, uncomfortable and hurting. I try to just watch the negative feelings without getting involved with them. I can't say I'm very good at it and maybe the act of trying to watch the pain is a distraction in itself?

A top ultra marathon runner says that when she's about to start hurting she welcomes the pain. "Hello pain, have you come to visit again? Welcome!". She says the better she gets to know pain, the friendlier she is towards it, the easier it is for her to continue running. She's not a Buddhist I don't think - I can't even remember her name (it's in the Scott Jurek book 'Eat, Sleep, and Run'). But it also sounds like something Thich Naht Hahn would teach.

karmablues

I've posted this article by Bhikkhu Bodhi before on another thread and will do so here again as you may have not seen it and might find it useful.

From "Living with pain, not with suffering" available at:
http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=6,4168,0,0,1,0#.UgsXVKyZn84

Excerpts:

...Since 1976 I have been afflicted with chronic head pain that has grown worse over the decades. This condition has thrown a granite boulder across the tracks of my meditation practice. Pain often wipes a day and night off my calendar, and sometimes more at a stretch. The condition has cost me a total of several years of productive activity. Because intense head pain makes reading difficult, it has at times even threatened my vocation as a scholar and translator of Buddhist texts.

.....

I know firsthand that chronic bodily pain can eat deeply into the entrails of the spirit. It can cast dark shadows over the chambers of the heart and pull one down into moods of dejection and despair. I cannot claim to have triumphed over pain, but in the course of our long relationship, I’ve discovered some guidelines that have helped me to endure the experience.

First of all, it is useful to recognize the distinction between physical pain and the mental reaction to it. Although body and mind are closely intertwined, the mind does not have to share the same fate as the body. When the body feels pain, the mind can stand back from it.

Instead of allowing itself to be dragged down, the mind can simply observe the pain. Indeed, the mind can even turn the pain around and transform it into a means of inner growth.

......

Pain can be regarded as a teacher - a stern one that can also be eloquent. My head pain has often felt like a built-in buddha who constantly reminds me of the first noble truth.

.....

As a follower of the dharma, I place complete trust in the law of karma. Therefore, I accept this painful condition as a present-life reflection of some unwholesome karma I created in the past.... by trusting the law of karma, one can understand that the key to future good health lies in one’s hands. It is a reminder to refrain from harmful deeds motivated by ill-will and to engage in deeds aimed at promoting the welfare and happiness of others.

Chronic pain can be an incentive for developing qualities that give greater depth and strength to one’s character. In this way, it can be seen as a blessing rather than as a burden, though of course we shouldn’t abandon the effort to discover a remedy for it.

My own effort to deal with chronic pain has helped me to develop patience, courage, determination, equanimity, and compassion. At times, when the pain has almost incapacitated me, I’ve been tempted to cast off all responsibilities and just submit passively to this fate.

But I’ve found that when I put aside the worries connected with the pain and simply bear it patiently, it eventually subsides to a more tolerable level. From there I can make more realistic decisions and function effectively.

The experience of chronic pain has enabled me to understand how inseparable pain is from the human condition.

....

Even during the most unremitting pain - when reading, writing, and speaking are difficult - I try not to let it ruffle my spirits and to maintain my vows, especially my vow to follow the monastic path until this life is over.

When pain breaks over my head and down my shoulders, I use contemplation to examine the feelings. This helps me see them as mere impersonal events, as processes that occur at gross and subtle levels through the force of conditions, as sensations with their own distinct tones, textures, and flavours.

The most powerful tool I’ve found for mitigating pain’s impact is a short meditative formula repeated many times in the Buddha’s discourses: “Whatever feelings there may be-past, present, or future- all feeling is not mine, not I, not myself.”

Benefiting from this technique does not require deep samadhi or a breakthrough to profound insight. Even using this formula during periods of reflective contemplation helps to create a distance between oneself and one’s experience of pain.

Such contemplation deprives the pain of its power to create nodes of personal identification within the mind, and thus builds equanimity and fortitude.

Although the technique takes time and effort, when the three terms of contemplation - “not mine, not I, not myself” - gain momentum, pain loses its sting and cracks opens the door to the end of pain, the door to ultimate freedom.

riverflow

seeker242 said:

But generally speaking, the "Buddhist way" to deal with pain is to prepare your mind with meditation practice beforehand. So when you experience the pain, you already have the ability to detach. You have already gained the skill in detaching from feelings and sensations during meditation practice and then you take that skill and apply it to the pain. So you could say that the practical "Buddhist way" is really "preemptive detachment" which results in a mindset that does not resist pain but completely accepts it without aversion.

[emphasis mine]

I think the key lies in practice long beforehand. Meditation has its place, but not at the last minute. --which doesn't mean meditation may not have its uses in the context of being in a lot of physical pain, but the key lies in practicing long before that pain arises.

Florian

I would agree. It's no use waiting until we're walking onto court at Wimbledon to start practicing our serve.

SnowLioness

Meditate meditate meditate!
For all the reasons given previously, but also because meditation does cause the release of natural endorphins, that help.

footiam

betaboy said:

I currently have multiple ulcers in my mouth - thanks to an extraction gone wrong - and I am wondering whether there is any technique to detach oneself from the body (so as to minimize the pain).

Philosphy goes out the window when there is actual physical pain - practicality matters, and in this respect I don't think Buddhism or any religion has given an adequate answer. Sad but true. It is all about achieving this or that after death, but no practical advice on how to deal with things while still alive and breathing.

This is the time when you need tranquilizers. When it is a physical pain and involves the nervous systems, you'll need to fix the nervous system.

SnowLioness

How are you feeling now, betaboy?

Victorious

Now I am in your shoes(almost). I have had problem with at tooth this entire year off and on and now the pain is getting worse again. I am due to see the dentist tomorrow so hopefully they will do something about it then...

But in the meanwhile I am trying out all remedies mentioned above. lol.

How are you holding out @betaboy?

/Victor

betaboy

@SnowLioness @Victorious

Thanks for asking. I am okay now, in fact far better than I was last week. But the socket still hasn't closed, so it is a bit worrying. I thought this pain could give me some insight into meditation, detachment, etc., but unfortunately it has only made me more disillusioned. :-/

Jeffrey

We are all sometimes wise and sometimes confused. That's why it is samsara. Wishing you well with Metta and well-wishing.

lobster

betaboy said:

but unfortunately it has only made me more disillusioned. :-/

The platitudes did not work? Not surprising.
If only the ability to sit with intense pain is as easy as some of the suggestions . . . personally I would allow the hell realm to feed on the pain . . . at least something is fed . . . but when in the throes of the intensity . . it is yet another platitude . . .

Glad you are getting better. Overcoming suffering/dukkha. Only plan worth following?

Victorious

betaboy said:

@SnowLioness @Victorious

Thanks for asking. I am okay now, in fact far better than I was last week. But the socket still hasn't closed, so it is a bit worrying. I thought this pain could give me some insight into meditation, detachment, etc., but unfortunately it has only made me more disillusioned. :-/

What are you disillusioned about?

What I have realised is this. That which affects you most is maybe not the pain itself but rather the panic/fear caused by the pain.

Intense short pain can be ignored it is worse with lasting pain. The sharper the pain the shorter you can endure it.

Also pain in an area will tense the muscles and excite the nerves in the vicinity so the pain slowly spreads.

The panic/ fear adds to the tension. So if the pain can be ignored and the panic/fear subdued the painfull feeling will reduce.


So what does Buddhism say about suffering? Let look at the DO.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Nidānas

Due to Feeling, in this case dislike/aversion, you fell a Craving to avoid the pain. Since your mind is automatically turned towards it and can not let go of the Clinging to the feeling your self Becomes panic and fear and thus we suffer.

In the same way if traversing the DO backwards. Feeling is due to Contact between the sense medium and the Consciousness.

Now both the Dhamma and our experince tells us that if we avoid this contact between the sense medium and Consciousness. we will not feel the pain. This is what happens when our Consciousness is averted from the pain and laid upon another object. Like when we give an infant in pain sugar. Its Consciousness is then diverted to the sugar and the baby calms down although the reason for the pain still remains.

If you abide in mindfullness during pain you will see that the sensation that we call pain is a very complex flow. It is not only the physical pain but also the selfinduced pain/suffering i.e. panic/fear/selfpity/sorrow etc. that has to be delt with.

As any external stimuli if no Feeling/Value is not attached to it the DO will fall. That is we can stop our attachment to the pain and just let i be. This is what we do when "moving the pain outside of the Me experince" as suggested by many above.

Why? Because we are not so advanced in our practise (i.e Arahants) it is not possible for us to stop the DO entirely. The Me experience is still there since our Ignorance is not eradicated. So the best we can do is disassociate the painfullpart of that Me experience from the rest and imerge ourselves in the part that does not contain the pain.

And I think. This can be done more effectivly the further down the Path you are. But not to perfection until the stream is crossed entirely. The less experience with mindfullness and bhavana on anatta, anicca and dukkha as the object the more difficult it will be to keep the two split streams of the self apart. The more demanding the pain likewise.

Now think about how much real cultivation of the path you have had and place that into the ekvation before you become disillusioned about the suggested practises above.

Kindly
Victor


@lobster. Here is another "platitude" for you. That which one disrespects one will never learn .
:om:

Am I Wrong?

Victor

SnowLioness

Bottom line...Dentists are freakin' SCARY, man!

DairyLama

betaboy said:

...but unfortunately it has only made me more disillusioned. :-/

Disillusioned about what?

Victorious

SnowLioness said:

Bottom line...Dentists are freakin' SCARY, man!

I was just there right now and she said. Take your painkillers and stop whining boy.

EDIT: I forgot the lol. So lol....

/Victor

lobster

Here is another "platitude" for you. That which one disrespects one will never learn.

I think we should respect pain, intense mental or physical pain. It is overwhelming as some are aware. A platitude is often advice that is not applicable. For example those individuals who have practiced extremes of deprivation, meditative absorption and concentration can be very independent of intense physical pain. That is not me at present and I would suggest most here. So 'go into the pain' type advice is sham advice. Go into the medicine cabinet is far more realistic. A bit of pain, applicable, possible, good advice.

If we look at intense psychological and emotive pain, focus on it might be detrimental and not transitional. Other circumstances and qualities may not be in place, for example perseverance.

Great video . . .

Victorious

lobster said:

Great video . . .

I think you are right. Not only about the video... .

I do not know if these have been quoted before in the Thread. But here they are anyway. Just some suttas about handling Pain.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn52/sn52.010.than.html

There are a number of Gilana suttas. It is relevant reading for the interested.

Do you think it could be this simple ( or hard)?
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn46/sn46.014.piya.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn46/sn46.016.piya.html

Jeffrey

I think a good tactic is to remember you are not alone in your pain. There are others. You can gain some punya which is sort of a brownie point or kudos as per awareness practice. Think how you are taking the pain on in your life to let someone else be pain free. Not literal sense, but it is kind of true. If there are all these beings then some must be in pain and some not. The reason is that we have bodies made of organs and blood and a brain and nerves and skin. Somewhere along the line we will all have pain. Also give yourself metta or do tonglen on yourself also could be good. It isn't wrong to distract yourself from the pain. My teacher doesn't advise taking pain as an object of meditation because that just intensifies the suffering. IIRC