Do you intend to die?

lobster

As far as I know, all of us are going to die. Our hope, our stories, the fantasies of good people telling tales of heaven or future reassembling of consciousness is not likely. Do we cling to it?

For me this acceptance of death makes samsara and enlightenment a priority. It makes practice a priority. If you have a better plan or know of one, what is it?

Kundo

lobster said:

As far as I know, all of us are going to die. Our hope, our stories, the fantasies of good people telling tales of heaven or future reassembling of consciousness is not likely. Do we cling to it?

For me this acceptance of death makes samsara and enlightenment a priority. It makes practice a priority. If you have a better plan or know of one, what is it?

Namaste,

I have no plans except to make the most of the time I have, teach my daughter well and try to leave the world a better place than when I came into it.

In metta,
Raven

Davetheseeker

I don't plan on it, but know it will happen.
All I know is what little I've learned, and that's to do my best to not harm and only help.
It's much easier said than done at times. But this life is a challenge at times, and to see if we can "stand up" to the challenge and learn from it to help others through similar situations is the only thing I "plan" on doing.

David

I won't die because as soon as there is death, I will be gone.

I am ready for death but I plan to live.

DairyLama

lobster said:

For me this acceptance of death makes samsara and enlightenment a priority. It makes practice a priority. If you have a better plan or know of one, what is it?

My first teacher used to say: "If you don't believe in rebirth, that's fine, but you'd better get serious about your practice - there isn't much time left!"

genkaku

Using death as an overt or covert inspiration/threat strikes me as a poor man's spiritual path... asserting with vigor what it claims to want to transcend.

Just practice and let death take care of itself.

I_AM_THAT

Time, is one of if not the biggest delusion that man has. See the impermanence in all things and live each moment fully.

Citta

Time might be an illusion. But death still happens and the knowledge of that can concentrate the mind like little else if properly internalised.

Gui

The only knowledge I have of death is that my body will cease to function as my body. Anything else is pure conjecture on my part and will lead to suffering.

seeker242

"If you are afraid of death, of nothingness, of non-being, you have wrong perceptions. The French scientist Lavoisier observed reality around him and come to the conclusion “Rien ne se cree, rien ne se perd,” (there is no birth, there is no death).

When you look at a cloud, you are sure the cloud exists because you can see it. Later on when the cloud becomes the rain, you do not see the cloud anymore, and you say the cloud is not there. You would describe the cloud as non-being. But if you look deeply enough, you can see the cloud exists in the rain. It is impossible for a cloud to die. A cloud can become rain, snow or ice, but a cloud cannot become nothing.

For everything, there is a transformation, there is a continuation. This is as true for human bodies as it is for clouds. You cannot suddenly change from “someone” to “no one.”

The notion of death cannot apply to reality whether to a cloud or a human being.

The Buddha did not die, the Buddha continued through his Sangha and through his Dharma . That is why ideas like being born, dying, coming and going, being and non-being can be removed by the practice of looking deeply. When you remove these notions you are free and unafraid." ~Thich Nhat Hann

Do I intend to die? I don't know!

Gui

Life And Death

Life, death, - death, life; the words have led for ages
Our thought and consciousness and firmly seemed
Two opposites; but now long-hidden pages
Are opened, liberating truths undreamed.
Life only is, or death is life disguised, -
Life a short death until by Life we are surprised.
-Sri Aurobindo

Vastmind

I intend to practice until I die.

Citta

' I am not afraid of dying. I just don't want to be there when it happens '

Woody Allen.

Jeffrey

Why is heaven not likely? Are you scientific materialist?

Nevermind

Jeffrey said:

Why is heaven not likely? Are you scientific materialist?

Maybe he or she is a Buddhist.

Jeffrey

I'm sure a Buddhist. I just don't understand how someone would not be agnostic about heaven. It's unknowable. There isn't evidence for or against.

Dandelion

A really great 'documentary' about how to live forever hehe!


Joking aside, I think about death far too much. A little less death, and a little more living in the here and now is what I need to focus on.

Nevermind

Jeffrey said:

I just don't understand how someone would not be agnostic about heaven. It's unknowable. There isn't evidence for or against.

Maybe Christians are not agnostic about heaven.

Lee82

I have no fear of death and accept that the how and when are beyond my control. I genuinely would like to live forever and see how the world unfolds but am content to take life day-by-day and make the most of it.

I find myself frustrated at times by other peoples inability to make the most of the here and now. People plan for good things happening in the future, put things off until another day, waiting for 'the right time' to come along but don't live for today. Life is too short. I suppose one must accept that each person is entitled to live their life their own way, whether it be good, bad or indifferent.

genkaku

@Gui wrote

Life And Death

Life, death, - death, life; the words have led for ages
Our thought and consciousness and firmly seemed
Two opposites; but now long-hidden pages
Are opened, liberating truths undreamed.
Life only is, or death is life disguised, -
Life a short death until by Life we are surprised.
-Sri Aurobindo

The Zen Buddhist Christmas Humphreys once wrote, approximately, "Life and death are not opposites. The opposite of death is birth. The opposite of life is form."

karmablues

Excerpts from an article on the nine contemplations on death by Joan Halifax Roshi (she said it is based on the teachings of Atisha, an eleventh-century Tibetan Buddhist scholar)

1. All of Us Will Die Sooner or Later

Even though it may be difficult for you to realize that someday you will die, there is no question that you will be met by death sooner or later. There is no way around it....

Look at your life. What are you doing right now that will help you die? Please consider this, and observe your response to this question. Then remind yourself, “Death is inevitable. I, too, will die.” Repeat this statement to yourself. On the inbreath, “Death is inevitable.” On the outbreath, “I, too, will die.” When the mind wanders away from this contemplation of the inevitability of death, call it back. Do not lose the opportunity to realize that you cannot avoid your death.....

Watch what the mind may do to escape this very simple fact. Death is inevitable. Can you face this truth? Can you feel it in your body, your blood, your bones; can you know it in your breath?....

2. Your Life Span Is Decreasing Continuously

Your life span lessens every moment that you live.... Your movement toward death never stops. Every breath you take in and give out brings you closer to this destination that we call death.... As you consider that your life span and that of all living beings is ever decreasing, notice what comes up in your mind. If the mind attempts to divert you, call yourself back to this truth that your life is limited. Recognize this. See it clearly. Perhaps appreciate what you have now, and that there may be no tomorrow.

In light of your life’s ever decreasing span, what are you doing with this precious life now to live life fully and to support a sane and gentle death? Do you appreciate this life? What are you doing to help others? What will give your life meaning and the lives of others meaning in the light of life’s briefness? Please ask yourself these questions as you remember that your life grows shorter each second.

3. Death Will Come Whether You Are Prepared or Not

Life is short, and most of us will meet our death without having strengthened our awareness of our true nature. How much time do you now spend training, strengthening, and stabilizing your mind? When death comes, do you think that you can negotiate with it for more time?

Someone once said that we have 1,300,000 thoughts every day. How many of these thoughts are you even aware of? How many of these thoughts are about liberation from suffering and death? How often do you remember that, indeed, death will come? How often do you turn your mind toward the commitment to prepare for death? Death is merciless. It has no discrimination. Up until the time it comes, if we are wise, we will be mindful of death.

Please ask yourself: How do you spend your time? What really is important for you to do with this precious human life? We spend so much time eating, drinking, grooming, playing, working, sleeping..... When we are dying, we might wonder, "What have I done with my life?" Most of us are doing so little to prepare ourselves for death. .... In light of the truth of your ever-decreasing life span, how do you want to spend your time, your energy, your resources? Is there a way that you can truly benefit others and yourself? What kind of practice will strengthen your mind? What can you do to wake up in this life?.... You can ready yourself right now. Watch your mind. Does it avoid facing the fact that death will come regardless of whether you are prepared for it? ....

4. Your Life Span, Like That of All Living Beings, Is Not Fixed

Think of the many beings who died this day. How many of them really thought they were going to die today? There is an essential uncertainty about the time of your death. Do you really think that you know how much time you have left? Please consider this.

Death can come at any moment. You could die this afternoon; you could die tomorrow morning; you could die on your way to work. You could die in your sleep. Most of us try to avoid the sense that death can come at any time, but the timing of death is unknown to all of us.

Can we live each day as if it were our last? Can we listen to one another, relate to one another, as if there is no tomorrow? Are you ready to die? Abide in the cycle of your inbreath and outbreath, remembering that death can come at any moment. You do not know how long this life span will be....

5. Death Has Many Causes

There are so many ways to die. The causes of death are infinite. You can die because of a storm or an accident; you can die of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, old age, and so forth.... Watch what your mind does when you contemplate the truth that death can come through so many doors. Do you try to avoid this thought, or are you able to consider the possibilities?....

6. Your Body Is Fragile and Vulnerable

.... When the wind has gone from your nostrils and the breath no longer enters your body, then your life span has ended, and you will die. Look deeply at the truth of this. Say to yourself, “This life is so fragile and is completely dependent on my breath. Breathing in, my life depends on this inhalation. Breathing out, my life depends on this exhalation.” Can you allow yourself to really know that your life is hanging by a breath? Inhalation, “My life depends on this in-breath.” Exhalation, “My life depends on this out-breath.”

... A heart attack or a stroke can bring you down in an instant. An accident, a moment of violence, a mistake can bring your life to a surprising and rapid end. Consider how vulnerable this body is. What does your mind do when you remember this? Does knowing how vulnerable and fragile you are turn your mind toward living? Does it deepen your experience? The sixth contemplation is a reminder to consider this human body. Your life is literally hanging by a breath.

7. Your Loved Ones Cannot Keep You from Death

It is only natural to turn to friends and family at the time of your dying. However, the people whom you love cannot keep death from you, and these strong attachments may produce sorrow and clinging, which make dying more difficult. Your loved ones are essentially helpless and powerless in the face of your dying. No matter how kind and adept your friends might be, ultimately they cannot prevent your death. There is nothing they can do for you at the moment of your death. Death will simply prevail. Look at this deeply. Since your friends will not be able to stop death from taking you, ask yourself, what really is going to help at the moment of your death? Your loved ones cannot keep you from death. This is the seventh contemplation.

8. At the Moment of Your Death, Your Material Resources Are of No Use to You

Imagine yourself on your deathbed. You are growing weaker and more frail by the moment. You have spent your entire life earning money, accumulating material possessions. You have a beautiful house, a nice car, jewelry, and fine clothes. On the threshold of death, what good are these things to you?

Every single penny, every single item must be left behind. Houses, bank accounts, art objects, fine wines, beautiful clothing, expensive jewelry—all the comforts that you worked so hard for—you have to leave behind.... In some sense they are worse than useless. They are impediments to fully surrendering to death. In order to die in peace, you will have to let go of everything. In considering this, can you see yourself clinging to these things that make up part of your story and identity?

......

Now ask yourself, "What is a sound investment to make in this life?" What will be really important at the moment of my death? Material possessions will not help. On the inbreath consider this. On the outbreath know what it is to release the breath and attachment to all that you possess. This is the eighth contemplation; that your material resources will be of no use to you at the moment of your death.

9. Your Own Body Cannot Help You at the Time of Your Death

You have spent so much time working on your body—feeding it, watering it, exercising it, dressing and undressing it, beautifying it, enjoying and not enjoying it. You may spend
hours just thinking about your body, viewing it in a mirror, evaluating its appearance, trying to make it look younger and more beautiful. Then what happens? It dies on you anyway.

.....

At this moment can you feel your dependence on your body, your attachment to your body? Can you see how holding on to your body at the time of your dying might torment you? Imagine what it might be like just before you die. You realize suddenly that you are losing your money, your friends, your loved ones, your status, your job. And at the moment of your death, in an instant, you will also lose your body. Consider this. Abiding in the inbreath, abiding in the outbreath, remember that even your body cannot help you at the time of death. Can you understand how others may feel who are facing their deaths? Why there is so much fear, so much clinging to life, such anger in anticipation of giving up life? Can you feel compassion for yourself and for others?

What is really important for you in light of this truth that we cannot hold on to this body when we die? What can you do to prepare yourself to face your death and to skillfully help others face theirs? What can you do to prepare? What can you do to strengthen your awareness and your capacity to surrender to death? What can you do to make it more possible to really be present for yourself or another who is facing the loss of everything at the moment of death?....

Vastmind

Reflect on that!
good post @karmablues !

So good....the thread should now be moved to 'Meditation'. haha

karmablues

Thanks, @Vastmind. There is a similar daily contemplation practice for Theravada monks which is condensed into five contemplations rather than nine. I couldn't find a good article explaining that but stumbled on the nine contemplations by Joan Halifax Roshi instead which I think covers all the important points.

I also stumbled on an article by Dr. Alima Sherman, a psychotherapist who works with the terminally ill. She attended an eight day Zen retreat called "Being with the Dying: A Professional Training Program with Roshi Joan Halifax and others" at the Upaya Zen Center and did the nine contemplations exercise and tells how it changed her as follows:

I just returned from an eight day Zen retreat on Death and Dying--a professional training for doctors, nurses, social workers, and spiritual directors. Not being in any of the above professions, I found myself asking the question whether I would fit into the retreat. Since I do not work at a hospice nor in a hospital setting, why, I wondered, was I here? I convinced myself that this question would hopefully get answered during the week ahead.

The morning meditations and dharma talks emphasized letting go of the mind and allowing ourselves to become fully present. In this state, we could bear witness, not attempting to do anything such as give direction or advice, but to sit and observe in an awakened state of receptivity and compassion--a place of not knowing. I thought back on my experience with patients dying of AIDS when I had been fearful and anxious, avoiding them during their final days at home. I felt inadequate, certain that there was something that I was supposed to do or say to someone dying. I had to be the expert.

On the fourth morning, the Roshi took us through a morning practice, referred to as the Nine Contemplations of Atisha--a guided meditation on the nine doorways that teach about the nature of death and dying. Her only instructions were to listen serenely and openly and consider deeply what is said. I sat with my legs folded under me with my hands resting on my knees and my eyes looking downward. To my shock, we were going through the stages of our own dying. I remember her saying, "death is inevitable for all living beings. The time of our death is unknown. Material objects cannot help us. What can we do to prepare? What can we do to strengthen this awareness and our capacity to release? What can we do to make it more possible for us to be really present for another who is facing the loss of everything at the moment of their death?"

All my self doubt, all my training as a clinical psychologist, all my belief of separateness between myself and others suddenly fell away. The meditation broke my heart. It was like dropping a fine crystal on cement--a shattering of conceptual knowing into a thousand broken pieces. A lifetime of defining myself, of closing my heart so tight that it struggled to feel, a routine of comfort and predictability in things....all gone. In its place was a new ache, a new tenderness--an ocean of tears that I had carefully walled off now flooded me. I grieved at last, for the loss of friends and patients to AIDS and cancer, for my father's early death, and for the loss of myself through years of detached clinical interpretations that had robbed my work of compassion.

Later that night, a friend took me out into the night to see the incredible Santa Fe sky, full of stars and a crescent moon. She told me of a saying her Rabbi had told her---"only through a broken heart can there be wholeness." A wholeness of heart, unprotected and loving, finally able to truly bear witness to dying and to life. I knew why I had come; to remember whom I was before I closed my heart. I now held this new tenderness with great reverence, wondering if I would need to start a daily practice to keep my heart open? Of course! Would I need to be open about my experience, feeling exposed as never before...peeling back layers of professional distance and attempting to sit with this discomfort? Of course! Would I stop working with terminal illness and avoid moments where I am not an expert? Hopefully, I would not!

I will try to remember and practice the contemplative approach to being with dying: not knowing, simply allowing the truth of each situation to inform me; bearing witness, welcoming everything, and practicing fearless receptivity and compassionate action, bringing the work forward through the practice of mindful presence. On my return to Los Angeles, I signed up to volunteer at a local hospital on the oncology floor to be a companion to patients wanting someone to listen.

The retreat mentioned in this article is Being with the Dying: A Professional Training Program with Roshi Joan Halifax and others-Upaya Zen Center, Santa Fe, New Mexico.

Gui

My take on death is this. We believe that we are inside and everything else is outside. Our bodies are what we have to sense the outside and our minds are what we have to perceive and interpret and find meanings of these sensations. It's like we have all these windows to the outside and they start out as clear windows but as we grow older they get smudged, some become filthy and most of them we paint pretty colors. Whereas realizations and strong practice may clean the windows, death removes the inside entirely. We are then just outside. We are the outside. No big deal really. What we hold onto so dearly as the inside is just looking through windows.

how

DO YOU INTEND TO DIE?
Is meditation not just a preview of death's kiss?.
Does that moment contain something that any other moment doesn't?
When does training for training's sake....become it's own inertia?

lobster

how said:

Is meditation not just a preview of death's kiss?
Does that moment contain something that any other moment doesn't?
When does training for training's sake....become it's own inertia?

The Sufis say 'die before you die'. In that sense, letting go of the arising of separation, if possible is a 'preview'. No self? Dead.
Full of it? Very much alive.
Your second question is right to ask, impossible to answer. What would a corpse say?
One does not have to train a corpse. Is there any movement?

wrathfuldeity

yes...die before you die...then you don't die...you are gratefully deceased

zenff

lobster said:

As far as I know, all of us are going to die. Our hope, our stories, the fantasies of good people telling tales of heaven or future reassembling of consciousness is not likely. Do we cling to it?

For me this acceptance of death makes samsara and enlightenment a priority. It makes practice a priority. If you have a better plan or know of one, what is it?

Death is no mystery; the definition can be found in Wikipedia !

Death is the cessation of all biological functions that sustain a particular living organism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death

When I die – the way I see it – the story of my life is over.
In line with that notion - for me - the goal of practice is to figure out what “enlightened life” is and live it to the best of my ability in this one lifetime.

“Dying now” is transcending the story of my life before it is over. Not identifying with the story. It is the “death” of realizing emptiness, like it says in the Diamond Sutra:

So you should view this fleeting world --
A star at dawn, a bubble in a stream,
A flash of lightening in a summer cloud,
A flickering lamp, a phantom, and a dream.

That’s the Great Death; the one that matters.

Citta

Life post mortem.?..I'm dying to find out.

lobster

Don't hold your breath . . .

Victorious

I do not intend to die no. I was hoping to dissolve my selfillusion this life.

Need to kick out my children first though. They keep getting in the way of cultivation all the time. What are they thinking those small rascals?

/Victor

DairyLama

genkaku said:

The Zen Buddhist Christmas Humphreys once wrote, approximately, ".....The opposite of life is form."

What you think he meant by that? Form in the Buddhist sense of rupa?

Zayl

Well, yes, I do intend to die. I've accepted this a long time ago. I do not fear death (on the other hand, I do fear *how* I will die, that is an important distinction) but truth be told, I am so very curious to know what death is like. When I fade away there will be no fear, just eagerness I guess.

Not that I have a deathwish or anything, don't get the wrong idea. I intend to live all of my natural born days as well as I can. But from my point of view, Death is life's final, yet greatest adventure.

JohnG

In life there is only one sure thing, we must die. So, isn't it better to live life to fulfill our duty to others, then to wait for the last minute and have no time to do so?

DaftChris

Nope! I plan on living forever and ever!

In all seriousness, I think of death as simply a natural part of life. One that we should neither fear nor desire. When it happens, it happens. It is simply us moving from one state of being into another. Yin and Yang.

That being said, do I believe this next state of being is non-existence? How should I know? I'm not dead.

Victorious

Dude you are and this place is what happens after (the previous) Death.

Kundo

Victorious said:

Dude you are and this place is what happens after (the previous) Death.

Welcome to Ashes to Ashes. Gene Hunt will be with you shortly

Jeffrey

Yes I am afraid to die but I will try to take refuge through that experience. When I used to have nightmares say of being dissected when I was still alive I would always pretend that the dissector was Jesus and he was benevolent. I lucid dreamed these dreams. I haven't lucid dreamed in a long time.

So I am not afraid to go on my journey though I will miss all the kitty whiskers, cookies, loved ones, and our house. But I am afraid to die. I can see this when I try to hold my breath and the distress the body goes in. I had my cut foot cleaned out and that was a lot of pain. I hope my body is faithful and releases endorphins. Perhaps in hospice with morphine.

footiam

lobster said:

As far as I know, all of us are going to die. Our hope, our stories, the fantasies of good people telling tales of heaven or future reassembling of consciousness is not likely. Do we cling to it?

For me this acceptance of death makes samsara and enlightenment a priority. It makes practice a priority. If you have a better plan or know of one, what is it?

Since we have to die, live right lest people rejoice when we leave.

DairyLama

DaftChris said:

That being said, do I believe this next state of being is non-existence? How should I know? I'm not dead.

You're right, none of us know. Though in the suttas the Buddha did reject the annihilationist position, the belief that death is final extinction.

Citta

DaftChris said:

Nope! I plan on living forever and ever!

In all seriousness, I think of death as simply a natural part of life. One that we should neither fear nor desire. When it happens, it happens. It is simply us moving from one state of being into another. Yin and Yang.

That being said, do I believe this next state of being is non-existence? How should I know? I'm not dead.

From a Vajrayana pov not being dead is a technicality .
As is well known Vajrayana teaches that after death we enter a Bardo state.
What is less well known is that Vajrayana posits the existence of six Bardos, and that three of these are experienced before death.
They are, this present waking life, the dream state, and Jnanic absorption.
So this very life is a Bardo. No more and no less 'real' than any after death state.