Signs you're arguing a person, not discussing a topic

Linc

* You quote one person multiple times in a comment.
* You're Googling for "debate fallacies" and defining them in your comment.
* You read a comment that sounds snarky and decide to reply with snark.
* You start capitalizing words for emphasis (especially "YOU").
* You'd stop replying to a discussion if only that one person would be quiet.
* You're not editing your comments for tone before posting.

Jeffrey

You're not saying 'I think'
You think you can right the world by an argument with 5 people online :eek:

vinlyn

True, but the heat petered out after a short while. All is back to normal.

seeker242

Have you been reading my posts Lincon?

federica

@seeker242, I think you'll find that's a yes.
And for what it's worth, we all have.

(It's 'Lincoln'....)

vinlyn said:

True, but the heat petered out after a short while. All is back to normal.

It would be far more acceptable if things never got that hot.

Thanks.

poptart

I read somewhere recently that the reason we can get so upset by a different opinion is that we haven't truly thought out our own and because we fear that our own cherished opinion might be wrong we react with anger towards the other person. If on the other hand we have thought through our opinion then nothing anyone else says makes any difference. We know we are right so we don't get upset.

It's food for thought.

Citta

Pretty much. Although I seldom ' know' I am right. But anger always shows an emotional identification with a cause. Which isn't condusive to informed debate.

seeker242

federica said:

It would be far more acceptable if things never got that hot.

Completely agree! Although if people think I was the only one arguing against a person, that sounds pretty unreasonable!

DairyLama

Jeffrey said:

You think you can right the world by an argument with 5 people online :eek:

I've done that many times...

poptart

Jeffrey said:

You think you can right the world by an argument with 5 people online :eek:

There ARE only 5 people online. The rest are sockpuppets. :eek2:

Citta

I am the sock puppet of @poptart.

MaryAnne

* You read a comment that sounds snarky and decide to reply with snark.
* You start capitalizing words for emphasis (especially "YOU").

I am often guilty of these two points.
Honestly, I happen to be a virtual Master of Sarcasm. I was born to it!
but, I do try to keep a check on my sarcasm/snark, but sometimes, if it's dished out first, I can't resist....

As for capitalizing, it's a very difficult habit for me to break. I tend to often capitalize words for emphasis. I write like I speak - which is pretty animated, I guess.
Imagine my struggle in college when I had to write very technically precise (psychology) papers in formal AMA Style format! Holy cow- proof reading and correction took almost as much time as writing the damn things! LOL

I'll try harder. :-/

genkaku

You mean I'm NOT the arbiter of all that is good and wise and correct and holy?!

Now you tell me...

Nevermind

federica said:

It would be far more acceptable if things never got that hot.

Acceptable to maintaining the illusion that Buddhists are all peaceful and wise?

robot

Nevermind said:

federica said:

It would be far more acceptable if things never got that hot.

Acceptable to maintaining the illusion that Buddhists are all peaceful and wise?

Why add words that are not there?
You should be more subtle when you are trying to start an arguement.

Nevermind

Perhaps subtlety should be added to the OP no-no's

vinlyn

federica said:

...

vinlyn said:

True, but the heat petered out after a short while. All is back to normal.

It would be far more acceptable if things never got that hot.

Thanks.

It would be wise if we all remember that we sometimes look through rose-colored glasses...and sometimes into rose-colored mirrors.

Linc

seeker242 said:

Although if people think I was the only one arguing against a person, that sounds pretty unreasonable!

If I thought that, I woulda PMed you.

It seemed like a good moment for a community reminder. Also a nice excuse for me to think about it a bit. I might write a blog post about that.

Nevermind

Not using the word "you" so much might help in convincing us that we're more peaceful and wise than we actually are.

Victorious

I never do any of that stuff unless of course the other guy started it first...

how

Skillful means is an interesting teaching.

It is not enough to speak of a perceived truth if you do it such a way that it can't be heard.

Can you empathize well enough with another view to feel how something is likely to be heard?.

Always ask yourself if this moment is really the best time to speak of a truth?

Ask yourself if both the meaning and the intent of your words match for your audience can choose to listen to either.

Speak or don't according to whether those words foster compassion, love & wisdom or greed, hate & delusion.

karasti

I tend to capitalize sometimes, but it's just because I type things the way they sound in my head, so when there are words I would emphasize in conversation, I for some reason feel a need to emphasize them in type, too. Also, often because I know in these types of forums, people skim, and just experience has told me that when people skim they tend to read what they want to read (myself included) so when I want to make sure someone sees that I specified something a certain way so they don't waste time arguing moot points, I will capitalize or put them in * * or something else.

I do find it interesting when people assume an emotion is attached to a style of writing. When I feel emotion about an issue, 99% of the time I don't respond until I calm down and have a clear head to do so. So even if it seems like I am responding from an emotional spot, I'm not. It's just how I write. It's been quite a long time since I truly responded to anything here in anger. Sometimes I get exasperated, but not angry. And the exasperation has nothing to do with the other person, and everything to do with me feeling like I am not able to clearly get across what I mean. I hate it when I feel like someone is not understanding me, lol.

Jeffrey

MOST PEOPLE TAKE ALL CAPS AS YELLING.

I find a *better* practice with *digga digga* can sound like condescending or it could function as a word of emphasis depending on the tone of the rest of your post.

Remember we are exploring ideas. It is *not* a debate event.

Jeffrey

If in your response you are trying to 'tear the others view a new one' then your post is going to raise the alarm bell defenses of the other person.

Dandelion

Jeffrey said:

If in your response you are trying to 'tear the others view a new one' then your post is going to raise the alarm bell defenses of the other person.

That's true. There is a fine line between trying to kindly push someone to acknowledge, and see another perspective from a position of ego, or a position of genuine education. For me this forum is educational, so if someone *pushes* me to see something in a different way, I won't automatically dismiss it. They may well know better. It can be hard to know when you're just attaching to your own views from a position of ego, and don't want to be wrong, and of course it works the other way, and of course both ppl might be wrong, what a minefield!

Dandelion

Jeffrey said:

MOST PEOPLE TAKE ALL CAPS AS YELLING.

I find a *better* practice with *digga digga* can sound like condescending or it could function as a word of emphasis depending on the tone of the rest of your post.

Remember we are exploring ideas. It is *not* a debate event.

Yeah, a big problem with forums the world over.. you just don't always accurately perceive the tone of the writer correctly.

I wonder how many of us would change our views on how we find others that we communicate with online, should we meet them face to face and speak with them, debate with them that way.

MaryAnne

@Dandelion said:
"Yeah, a big problem with forums the world over.. you just don't always accurately perceive the tone of the writer correctly.

I wonder how many of us would change our views on how we find others that we communicate with online, should we meet them face to face and speak with them, debate with them that way. "


I almost always give my posts (what I call) "The Kitchen Table Test" -- Which is, if we were having 'this talk' around my kitchen table amongst friends, would I say to your face what I'm about to write in this post?
Since I'm not a 'mean' person, don't particularly enjoy confrontation, nor would I try to consciously embarrass anyone who is a guest in my home (at my table), I would TRY to make sure that my kitchen table 'tone' came across as best as possible in the posted comment, but yes, if I'd say it, I'll post it.

What's always unfortunate is when people refuse to believe you have no personal axe to grind, and read their own anger/annoyance/negativity into your comments; there's very little one can do about that, except explain your position and tone. But sometimes it's useless...

vinlyn

Very good post, Mary Anne.

MaryAnne

Thanks, @vinlyn... and look! I only capitalized ONE WORD in that post! Hey, I'm getting better!

Wait.... I just did it again, two words this time! Never mind.

vinlyn

Capitalizing here and there adds emphasis. It only bothers me when someone does it for a whole paragraph, because that makes it hard to read.

As you pointed out, it's difficult to read tone in the written word.

I remember once when I was principal I had a memo to send out the the teaching staff, and I wanted the memo to have no tone whatsoever...just a simple statement of facts they need to know. And I know I have to be careful because I can get "tonish" (and I invent words, too). So I wrote the memo and had 3 other administrators read it with the task of assessing whether or not there was any tone to it. No, they agreed, just facts, and in fact they described the memo as being "bland". Out went the memo, and within minutes I was being criticized for the harsh tone.

MaryAnne

^ Sometimes ya can't win for losin'....

genkaku

On the street where I live, there were once two lesbian couples living several houses apart. One couple had three kids, the other had one. And as my kids grew into awareness of sexuality and living arrangements, I would use these two couples as exemplars. One couple was insufferably snooty where the other was a joy to be around. And I pointed out to my kids that it didn't much matter whether someone was homosexual or heterosexual ... what mattered was whether they were nice people or jerks.

Buddhist or not-Buddhist doesn't matter much. It's the nice people and jerks that are worth paying attention to. And there's no reason to get your knickers in a twist trying to make nice with what is plainly a jerk-y situation.

I'm not entirely sure if this is responsive to the OP, but it's what crossed my mind.

Nirvana

I must admit that after I've had two unpleasantnesses with another "opiner" I no longer even read their posts. Also, I tend not to read any thread once they've commented in it, much less post, lest similar tones arise. I simply do not have the time.

seeker242

MaryAnne said:

What's always unfortunate is when people refuse to believe you have no personal axe to grind, and read their own anger/annoyance/negativity into your comments; there's very little one can do about that, except explain your position and tone. But sometimes it's useless...

Yes! But at the same time, there is always the possibility that it's not the other person projecting but the speaker projecting the idea that the other person is projecting.

MaryAnne

seeker242 said:

MaryAnne said:

What's always unfortunate is when people refuse to believe you have no personal axe to grind, and read their own anger/annoyance/negativity into your comments; there's very little one can do about that, except explain your position and tone. But sometimes it's useless...

Yes! But at the same time, there is always the possibility that it's not the other person projecting but the speaker projecting the idea that the other person is projecting.

Seriously, you should learn to "let it go".
This thread was pretty much dead in the water, and it's been four days since I made the statement you quoted, but you still need to get the last word in - and dispute what was said by raising 'other possibilities'.
Why resurrect an old argument? Why not just take a poster at their word?

Let It Go, already. I have. I'm sure most (of us) would have by now.

I think you'll find that you can be a much happier person, less stressed, less annoyed with others, more amicable, more compassionate; if you'd just let things go, instead of clinging to them; so sure you're right and others are wrong and/or deceiving themselves.

seeker242

MaryAnne said:

seeker242 said:

MaryAnne said:

What's always unfortunate is when people refuse to believe you have no personal axe to grind, and read their own anger/annoyance/negativity into your comments; there's very little one can do about that, except explain your position and tone. But sometimes it's useless...

Yes! But at the same time, there is always the possibility that it's not the other person projecting but the speaker projecting the idea that the other person is projecting.

Seriously, you should learn to "let it go".
This thread was pretty much dead in the water, and it's been four days since I made the statement you quoted, but you still need to get the last word in - and dispute what was said by raising 'other possibilities'.
Why resurrect an old argument? Why not just take a poster at their word?

Let It Go, already. I have. I'm sure most (of us) would have by now.

I think you'll find that you can be a much happier person, less stressed, less annoyed with others, more amicable, more compassionate; if you'd just let things go, instead of clinging to them; so sure you're right and others are wrong and/or deceiving themselves.

Sorry, but you are completely misconstruing my statements...again! Projection is not a 1 way street! To think it is, is simply foolish.

Linc

Oh. My. Shit.

Linc

I'm not much one for using the Warnings system, but you both get one for that exchange. You've actually sniped each other in the "stop sniping each other" thread. It beggars belief.