Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@newbuddhist.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take up to 48 hours. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

in the name of capitalism

blu3reeblu3ree Veteran
edited September 2013 in General Banter
«1

Comments

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    I think companies won't label their products as GMO because they are cowards who can't even stand behind their own product. If their product is as good and safe as they say it is, then let the people decide. They know better and yet will blame it on the consumer when they are just scardey-cats to tell the truth about their own product. That is the whole thing that really bothers me about the GMO thing. Let it stand up to scrutiny. Let me decide what is ok for me and my family to eat and label your products if you have so much faith in them. I hardly trust the companies and the government who say "trust us! These are just fine for you to eat." Sure, the same government said 70 years ago that smoking wasn't just ok, it was good or you! Heck, even doctors told people to smoke.
    ThailandTommaartenmithril
  • GMO is simply an unknown. Man has been selectively breeding for ages. The thing is that we don't know whether it is good or bad. I guess this generation of people are going to be guinea pigs.
  • The US recently passed a bill where farmers are now allowed to feed their livestock fracking run-off which is HUGELY toxic. It runs off into the water supply sometimes as it is, but to directly feed it to livestock, harming animals and then possible adding further toxins to people who consume the products, crazy.
    maarten
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    Capitalism is fine, corporatism sucks!
    MaryAnneriverflowoceancaldera207
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    And the more we breed something to meet our needs, the more problems what is breeded tends to have surviving on it's own, whether because of sterility, lack of finding a partner, or serious health problems.

    What we eat and drink, changes our DNA, our genes. I personally do not believe in any way that eating stuff that is genetically altered, does good things for our DNA. I don't think that huge uptick in food allergies and sensitivities is unrelated to the proliferation of GMO crops. I can't back that up, nor do I care to. It's just a sense that I have, at least about my own particular body and when it comes to those senses about myself, I'm usually right.

    I consider the complete lack of testing of GMO foods and the accountability level to be ridiculous. The same government that lies to us over and over again wants us to trust it about our food supply? Not hardly. I avoid them as much as I can without knowing where exactly they are. We grow our garden from seeds that have been passed through our family for generations so those I know are not GMO. I trust my garden. I mostly trust what we get from our neighbors. I certainly don't trust corporations or government in regards to what I put in my body that alters it.
    FlorianNirvana
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited August 2013
    I will happily eat GM products. The argument against is completely emotional. As is the argument against fracking.
    Its part of the rise of a new ' religion ' of irrationality that has been called Green Gnosticism.
    Its a dead end. Tinkering around the edges of samsara.
    In a hundred years it will all seem as quaint as James Thurber's aunt who plugged things into any empty socket to stop the electricity leaking out.
    Chrysalid
  • The US recently passed a bill where farmers are now allowed to feed their livestock fracking run-off which is HUGELY toxic. It runs off into the water supply sometimes as it is, but to directly feed it to livestock, harming animals and then possible adding further toxins to people who consume the products, crazy.

    you would think that would be on the mainstream media news. i never heard of this bill but i know fracking for shale is becoming more common in the us.
    Citta said:

    I will happily eat GM products. The argument against is completely emotional. As is the argument against fracking.
    Its part of the rise of a new ' religion ' of irrationality that has been called Green Gnosticism.
    Its a dead end. Tinkering around the edges of samsara.
    In a hundred years it will all seem as quaint as James Thurber's aunt who plugged things into any empty socket to stop the electricity leaking out.

    lol if you looked into the studies done by the japanese government and chinese gov. you would probably retract your ignorance based statement. also russia and europe either have banned or required labeling.... and when you consume crops that are grown in an oil field that got leaked out because the concrete structure the use to "ensure" that nothing leaks out degrades over time im sure youll also think otherwise.
    mithril
  • blu3ree said:

    The US recently passed a bill where farmers are now allowed to feed their livestock fracking run-off which is HUGELY toxic. It runs off into the water supply sometimes as it is, but to directly feed it to livestock, harming animals and then possible adding further toxins to people who consume the products, crazy.

    you would think that would be on the mainstream media news. i never heard of this bill but i know fracking for shale is becoming more common in the us.
    Citta said:

    I will happily eat GM products. The argument against is completely emotional. As is the argument against fracking.
    Its part of the rise of a new ' religion ' of irrationality that has been called Green Gnosticism.
    Its a dead end. Tinkering around the edges of samsara.
    In a hundred years it will all seem as quaint as James Thurber's aunt who plugged things into any empty socket to stop the electricity leaking out.

    lol if you looked into the studies done by the japanese government and chinese gov. you would probably retract your ignorance based statement. the japanese wont eat gm products because their government cares for its citizens. also russia, europe, and many parts of africa (which are starving) either have banned or required labeling.... when the companies themselves who stand to gain infinite amounts of wealth from the crops do their own research and have ex employees in our FDA something is a little fishy. when you consume crops that are grown in an oil field that got leaked out because the concrete structure they use to "ensure" that nothing leaks out degrades over time im sure you'll also think otherwise.
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited August 2013
    blu3ree said:

    The US recently passed a bill where farmers are now allowed to feed their livestock fracking run-off which is HUGELY toxic. It runs off into the water supply sometimes as it is, but to directly feed it to livestock, harming animals and then possible adding further toxins to people who consume the products, crazy.

    you would think that would be on the mainstream media news. i never heard of this bill but i know fracking for shale is becoming more common in the us.
    Citta said:

    I will happily eat GM products. The argument against is completely emotional. As is the argument against fracking.
    Its part of the rise of a new ' religion ' of irrationality that has been called Green Gnosticism.
    Its a dead end. Tinkering around the edges of samsara.
    In a hundred years it will all seem as quaint as James Thurber's aunt who plugged things into any empty socket to stop the electricity leaking out.

    lol if you looked into the studies done by the japanese government and chinese gov. you would probably retract your ignorance based statement. also russia and europe either have banned or required labeling.... and when you consume crops that are grown in an oil field that got leaked out because the concrete structure the use to "ensure" that nothing leaks out degrades over time im sure youll also think otherwise.
    Emoting. Displacement. Righteous Indignation.
  • Citta said:

    blu3ree said:

    The US recently passed a bill where farmers are now allowed to feed their livestock fracking run-off which is HUGELY toxic. It runs off into the water supply sometimes as it is, but to directly feed it to livestock, harming animals and then possible adding further toxins to people who consume the products, crazy.

    you would think that would be on the mainstream media news. i never heard of this bill but i know fracking for shale is becoming more common in the us.
    Citta said:

    I will happily eat GM products. The argument against is completely emotional. As is the argument against fracking.
    Its part of the rise of a new ' religion ' of irrationality that has been called Green Gnosticism.
    Its a dead end. Tinkering around the edges of samsara.
    In a hundred years it will all seem as quaint as James Thurber's aunt who plugged things into any empty socket to stop the electricity leaking out.

    lol if you looked into the studies done by the japanese government and chinese gov. you would probably retract your ignorance based statement. also russia and europe either have banned or required labeling.... and when you consume crops that are grown in an oil field that got leaked out because the concrete structure the use to "ensure" that nothing leaks out degrades over time im sure youll also think otherwise.
    Emoting. Displacement. Righteous Indignation.
    k
  • Nice one @Karasti.

    And full marks to the Co-op for refusing to support this idiocy.

  • footiamfootiam Veteran
    edited August 2013
    There is sadness not just in America. It is everywhere. Just that, some of us could see the cause and put an end to it.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    edited August 2013
    As much as we complain about this type of environmental degradation, things are much worse in the third world. In Thailand they have caught farmers using cyanide as a pesticide and rivers are sometimes filled with floating trash (let alone the invisible pollutants). Don't drink the water from the tap unless you need a laxative! They have done some work to improve air pollution, but it is still quite bad, depending on weather conditions.
  • vinlyn said:

    As much as we complain about this type of environmental degradation, things are much worse in the third world. In Thailand they have caught farmers using cyanide as a pesticide and rivers are sometimes filled with floating trash (let alone the invisible pollutants). Don't drink the water from the tap unless you need a laxative! They have done some work to improve air pollution, but it is still quite bad, depending on weather conditions.

    3rd world 2nd world 1st world its all still one planet were here together what we do effects all of us.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    edited August 2013
    blu3ree said:

    vinlyn said:

    As much as we complain about this type of environmental degradation, things are much worse in the third world. In Thailand they have caught farmers using cyanide as a pesticide and rivers are sometimes filled with floating trash (let alone the invisible pollutants). Don't drink the water from the tap unless you need a laxative! They have done some work to improve air pollution, but it is still quite bad, depending on weather conditions.

    3rd world 2nd world 1st world its all still one planet were here together what we do effects all of us.
    Naturally. I think anyone in the West with any worldly intelligence knows that. That was not my point at all.

    My point is that with issues like fracking, it's easy for us to get self-absorbed and think the US is the only place with environmental problems. We're not. There are huge issues around the world. And, in many places, there's relatively little awareness of environmental concerns. It's a constant struggle.

    mfranzdorf
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    Anyone who cares to research the actualities will discover that organic farms generate more soil and water pollutants which are measurable and quantifiable than any as yet unproven demerits of fracking.

    There are a number of inconvenient truths which are heresy to devotees of Green Gnosticism.
    I realise this. But what to do ?
  • vinlyn said:

    As much as we complain about this type of environmental degradation, things are much worse in the third world. In Thailand they have caught farmers using cyanide as a pesticide and rivers are sometimes filled with floating trash (let alone the invisible pollutants). Don't drink the water from the tap unless you need a laxative! They have done some work to improve air pollution, but it is still quite bad, depending on weather conditions.

    I was asking around trying to find out what the farmers here use on their crops, I am sure that it is not the vast majority of farmers using cyanide and not on all crops. Furthermore small doses of cyanide isn't all that bad to be honest, still not something good to think about. You can even order cyanide from the silkroad if you wanted to!!

    Also the air pollution depends on where you live in Thailand vinlyn, when they do the burnings in Chang Mai yes that is one place that has air pollution issues, but even there it is not over the entire city. Bangkok obviously but I steer clear of that place for many reasons. Other cities have a few issues but on the coast it is nice and also in most rural areas. The cars newer cars and bikes now are fitted with better filters as well.

    Tap water, I do not know anybody here who drinks the tap water, I have cleaned my rice with it a few times and I wash my dishes with it daily and I have rarely been ill and if I was, it was probably due to withdraw from medication.

    So things are not as bad as you depict here I would say. I have noticed that places like Thailand do not cover up what follies their government makes as well as the West, so it could be that many of the things going on the the EU and the Us are worse, but you just know very little about what is going on. Like the OP said, he did not know the US passed a bill that now allows farmers to feed their cattle fracking run-off.
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    I have been unable to find anywhere where the US govt. passed a law allowing animals to drink fracking water. In most of the US it is actually illegal to do anything with fracking water other than properly disposing of it. The EPA however for some bizarre reason allowed it in certain areas of the arid west, particularly in the Wind River Reservation in Wyoming, without even testing for contaminants. Unwise, but a very small and limited portion of the US compared to saying we passed a law allowing it. It's curious, because the evidence is pretty good for surface fracking water actually killing animals and causing still births. I will have to research more and see if there is a difference.

    Anyhow, if a law has actually been passed giving the entire US permission to use fracking water to feed farm animals I haven't been able to find it.
  • jlljll Veteran
    you will happily eat GM products.
    sure, but spare at thought for the poor farmers in India who are committing suicide
    thanks to GM seeds.

    fracking is harmless, unless you are living
    in the area where it is carried out.

    would you buy a house right above where fracking is going on?

    Citta said:

    I will happily eat GM products. The argument against is completely emotional. As is the argument against fracking.
    Its part of the rise of a new ' religion ' of irrationality that has been called Green Gnosticism.
    Its a dead end. Tinkering around the edges of samsara.
    In a hundred years it will all seem as quaint as James Thurber's aunt who plugged things into any empty socket to stop the electricity leaking out.

    blu3reemithrilNirvana
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Jll, you may want to read an article which seems far more balanced about the phenomenon of Indian farmers committing suicide. Try http://www.theinternational.org/articles/349-are-gm-seeds-to-blame-for-indian-farmer-s

    In terms of fracking, I'm not sure anyone on this forum is disagreeing with you.

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    vinlyn said:

    As much as we complain about this type of environmental degradation, things are much worse in the third world. In Thailand they have caught farmers using cyanide as a pesticide and rivers are sometimes filled with floating trash (let alone the invisible pollutants). Don't drink the water from the tap unless you need a laxative! They have done some work to improve air pollution, but it is still quite bad, depending on weather conditions.

    I was asking around trying to find out what the farmers here use on their crops, I am sure that it is not the vast majority of farmers using cyanide and not on all crops. Furthermore small doses of cyanide isn't all that bad to be honest, still not something good to think about. You can even order cyanide from the silkroad if you wanted to!!

    Also the air pollution depends on where you live in Thailand vinlyn, when they do the burnings in Chang Mai yes that is one place that has air pollution issues, but even there it is not over the entire city. Bangkok obviously but I steer clear of that place for many reasons. Other cities have a few issues but on the coast it is nice and also in most rural areas. The cars newer cars and bikes now are fitted with better filters as well.

    Tap water, I do not know anybody here who drinks the tap water, I have cleaned my rice with it a few times and I wash my dishes with it daily and I have rarely been ill and if I was, it was probably due to withdraw from medication.

    So things are not as bad as you depict here I would say. I have noticed that places like Thailand do not cover up what follies their government makes as well as the West, so it could be that many of the things going on the the EU and the Us are worse, but you just know very little about what is going on. Like the OP said, he did not know the US passed a bill that now allows farmers to feed their cattle fracking run-off.
    You might want to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_issues_in_Thailand


    ThailandTom
  • karasti said:

    I have been unable to find anywhere where the US govt. passed a law allowing animals to drink fracking water. In most of the US it is actually illegal to do anything with fracking water other than properly disposing of it. The EPA however for some bizarre reason allowed it in certain areas of the arid west, particularly in the Wind River Reservation in Wyoming, without even testing for contaminants. Unwise, but a very small and limited portion of the US compared to saying we passed a law allowing it. It's curious, because the evidence is pretty good for surface fracking water actually killing animals and causing still births. I will have to research more and see if there is a difference.

    Anyhow, if a law has actually been passed giving the entire US permission to use fracking water to feed farm animals I haven't been able to find it.

    http://ecowatch.com/2013/epa-fracking-wastewater-agriculture/
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited August 2013
    jll said:

    you will happily eat GM products.
    sure, but spare at thought for the poor farmers in India who are committing suicide
    thanks to GM seeds.

    fracking is harmless, unless you are living
    in the area where it is carried out.

    would you buy a house right above where fracking is going on?



    Citta said:

    I will happily eat GM products. The argument against is completely emotional. As is the argument against fracking.
    Its part of the rise of a new ' religion ' of irrationality that has been called Green Gnosticism.
    Its a dead end. Tinkering around the edges of samsara.
    In a hundred years it will all seem as quaint as James Thurber's aunt who plugged things into any empty socket to stop the electricity leaking out.

    No I wouldnt. I wouldn't buy a house over where an organic farm either. Or next to a wind turbine.
    vinlynblu3ree
  • blu3reeblu3ree Veteran
    edited August 2013
    Citta said:

    Anyone who cares to research the actualities will discover that organic farms generate more soil and water pollutants which are measurable and quantifiable than any as yet unproven demerits of fracking.

    There are a number of inconvenient truths which are heresy to devotees of Green Gnosticism.
    I realise this. But what to do ?

    vinlyn said:

    As much as we complain about this type of environmental degradation, things are much worse in the third world. In Thailand they have caught farmers using cyanide as a pesticide and rivers are sometimes filled with floating trash (let alone the invisible pollutants). Don't drink the water from the tap unless you need a laxative! They have done some work to improve air pollution, but it is still quite bad, depending on weather conditions.

    I was asking around trying to find out what the farmers here use on their crops, I am sure that it is not the vast majority of farmers using cyanide and not on all crops. Furthermore small doses of cyanide isn't all that bad to be honest, still not something good to think about. You can even order cyanide from the silkroad if you wanted to!!

    Also the air pollution depends on where you live in Thailand vinlyn, when they do the burnings in Chang Mai yes that is one place that has air pollution issues, but even there it is not over the entire city. Bangkok obviously but I steer clear of that place for many reasons. Other cities have a few issues but on the coast it is nice and also in most rural areas. The cars newer cars and bikes now are fitted with better filters as well.

    Tap water, I do not know anybody here who drinks the tap water, I have cleaned my rice with it a few times and I wash my dishes with it daily and I have rarely been ill and if I was, it was probably due to withdraw from medication.

    So things are not as bad as you depict here I would say. I have noticed that places like Thailand do not cover up what follies their government makes as well as the West, so it could be that many of the things going on the the EU and the Us are worse, but you just know very little about what is going on. Like the OP said, he did not know the US passed a bill that now allows farmers to feed their cattle fracking run-off.
    living in michigan being near detroit and flint general motors has polluted every lake in pontiac and never got charged for it because they created jobs. also there is a stream that runs through the town i live in and its flint river watershed which has also been overly polluted by general motors. i think there needs to be a strong line between environmental care and "economic gain" with the one thats in place now it seems like if your business bring some kind of economic promise it doesnt matter the environmental impact.


    @citta most of the genetic modification that is done goes toward making the crops more resistant to ready up round up spraying them more and more obviously isn't going to help if spraying it once didn't work the first time. plus the crops are breeding with weeds and creating weeds that are resistant to the roundup. on top of this is the soil that gets polluted from the spray even the most careful sprayer cant avoid rain washing the poison off the leaf into the ground.

    i remember on the Dr. Oz show earlier this year they had a debate on GM crops had people for and against it one of the ladies pro GMO said if the public wants to not eat GM products they can eat organic foods. which is kind of ignorant to the fact that the average family probably cannot eat organic because of its cost.
  • VictoriousVictorious Grim Veteran
    edited August 2013
    karasti said:

    We grow our garden from seeds that have been passed through our family for generations so those I know are not GMO. I trust my garden.

    How do you know the seeds in your garden has not been crossed with the pollen from GMO plants? I mean do you oversee every pollination so that no bees comes to your plants after previously visiting a GMO plant?

    I am asking because it is becomming an issue isn sweden since some here want the honey to be marked GMO or "Clean"...

    /Victor

    blu3ree
  • @jll also the indian government is now sueing monsanto for "stealing" indian crops and GMing them without permission. which makes them the first government to sue monsanto.
  • blu3reeblu3ree Veteran
    edited August 2013

    karasti said:

    We grow our garden from seeds that have been passed through our family for generations so those I know are not GMO. I trust my garden.

    How do you know the seeds in your garden has not been crossed with the pollen from GMO plants? I mean do you oversee every pollination so that no bees comes to your plants after previously visiting a GMO plant?

    I am asking because it is becomming an issue isn sweden since some here want the honey to be marked GMO or "Clean"...

    /Victor

    this is another issue back in America small farmers were getting sued by monsanto because the GMO crops were pollinating with regular crops and Monsanto claimed that the small farmers had "stolen" their GMO crops.

    in high school we watched netflix for our health class and watched the video about GMO/processed foods the name of the movie i do not know.
  • So many things to worry about. What to do, what to do..........
    lobster
  • blu3reeblu3ree Veteran
    edited August 2013

    So many things to worry about. What to do, what to do..........


    easy eat organic if you cant afford organic call the supplier of the food your eating ask them if their food is gmo and or sprayed with pesticides.

    or

    start your own farm so then you know how your food is being handled having bug problems? start a greenhouse depending on your climate you may need thicker walls but for the most part they can be build for around 300-x depending on how big you want it.

    why worry when you can make a change.
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    edited August 2013
    @Victorious no, of course not. We do the best we can. But we live in a very small, rural town and other than my grandma who lives next door, we are the only people who keep a garden within a mile or so. Our growing season is very short and most people don't bother because of the limits on what can be grown. Also, plants of the same type can only cross-pollinate with each other. For example a corn plant cannot somehow cross pollinate a cucumber. It can only cross-pollinate (using bees) another corn plant. We don't grow any of the high likelihood GMOs anyhow (like corn), so even with that there's a pretty low chance of any cross pollination. Possible yes, of course. But it's also still no reason just to go out and buy the GMO seeds.

    @ThailandTom yes, but no where in that article does it say whatsoever that the "US passed a law." The US did not pass a law. The EPA (which does not pass laws) made a decision to issue permits mostly for a very small area of the state of Wyoming. Not surprisingly, on a Native American reservation when it would not fly on most other lands in the US. So, yes, it's still a horrible thing. But that doesn't mean all of a sudden all the farms in the US are going to use fracking water to feed their animals. Far from it. No law was passed. A government agency issuing a small # of permits doesn't mean they passed a law.

    Round Up Ready GMO crops cost a fortune to keep. The seeds are expensive, like 3 times as much as a normal seed. RoundUp is REALLY expensive, and then on top of that, you have to keep buying seeds because most of the plants produced from the GMO seeds are sterile, so you cannot just keep the seeds from the plants and then plant them yourself the following year.

    One of my closest friends worked for many years in the international finance dept at Cargill. And people think Walmart is the epitomy of evil.

  • robotrobot Veteran
    blu3ree said:

    So many things to worry about. What to do, what to do..........



    start your own farm so then you know how your food is being handled having bug problems? start a greenhouse depending on your climate you may need thicker walls but for the most part they can be build for around 300-x depending on how big you want it.

    why worry when you can make a change.
    That's sounds easy. I'll get right on it.
    vinlynblu3ree
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    I'd LOVE to be able to have a year round (or close to it) greenhouse. But alas I'm too attached to where I live right now to move. Our climate only allows for greenhouses about 6-7 months a year, otherwise they are far too expensive to heat and run, requiring special equipment to keep the plants heated (because the sun isn't high enough in the sky here in the winter) and keep the water from freezing. More money than we have, unfortunately. But we do freeze, dehydrate, and can stuff from our smallish garden. Being able to produce your own food to live on for a year is basically a full time job. It would be next to impossible to do if you are working a normal job, have kids who live normal school/activity/social lives etc. Of course, you can do some if you have the space and the desire. But to have enough control over what you eat to truly make a difference, you need space and time. And an ideal climate or a bunch of money to create an ideal climate.
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    We cant fix samsara. We aren't required to try. Whatever you eat you will be dead in a hundred years tops.
    Get Enlightened.
  • Citta said:

    We cant fix samsara. We aren't required to try. Whatever you eat you will be dead in a hundred years tops.
    Get Enlightened.

    still doesnt give me the ok to go ahead and screw the planet up even more for the next generation. btw you cannot get enlightened. only be enlightened.

    Nirvana
  • karasti said:

    I'd LOVE to be able to have a year round (or close to it) greenhouse. But alas I'm too attached to where I live right now to move. Our climate only allows for greenhouses about 6-7 months a year, otherwise they are far too expensive to heat and run, requiring special equipment to keep the plants heated (because the sun isn't high enough in the sky here in the winter) and keep the water from freezing. More money than we have, unfortunately. But we do freeze, dehydrate, and can stuff from our smallish garden. Being able to produce your own food to live on for a year is basically a full time job. It would be next to impossible to do if you are working a normal job, have kids who live normal school/activity/social lives etc. Of course, you can do some if you have the space and the desire. But to have enough control over what you eat to truly make a difference, you need space and time. And an ideal climate or a bunch of money to create an ideal climate.

    well their are ways around it like getting a compressor and compressing grass clipping into grass pellets then burning them in a fire.

    as of now geothermal heating is expensive but there are government rebates for those who have the money up front to get them.
  • robot said:

    blu3ree said:

    So many things to worry about. What to do, what to do..........



    start your own farm so then you know how your food is being handled having bug problems? start a greenhouse depending on your climate you may need thicker walls but for the most part they can be build for around 300-x depending on how big you want it.

    why worry when you can make a change.
    That's sounds easy. I'll get right on it.
    theres diy all over youtube and the rest of the internet.
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    Yes, I know, but having a pellet stove costs money as well, not to mention time to manage the green houses (and the grass clippings, which our yard is not near big enough to cut enough grass to provide enough pellets to heat a greenhouse for 7 months). Our house is built on a hill, so we don't have a level space to even put a green house, so again, then we'd have to hire someone to level part of the yard. It's really not doable for us, not time wise at this point, and not finance wise. One day, perhaps, but when the professional greenhouses can't run except for April to October and not one single person I know, including those who are fully self sustaining do it, I suspect there is good reason for it.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    blu3ree, are you living totally "green"?
  • vinlyn said:

    blu3ree, are you living totally "green"?

    no because until last week i have been unemployed but i plan on getting a couple things to add to my parents house to improve quality of life such as: water purifier possible solar panels with hook ups so they can be wired to the house and to make the pond next to my house into a little fish pond with plants that will drop food into the water for them and supply oxygen for the water. other than that its my parents house so what i can do is very limited because they dont value the same things i do....

    cant have a greenhouse because my yard doesnt receive enough sun and my dad probably wouldnt let me.

    @karasti it would help keep it warm if some of the greenhouse was under the ground.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    So maybe it's not all as easy as you make it sound in your earlier posts.
  • I'm happy to eat GMO, DNA and protein is the same whether it's been modified or not, it all gets broken down into it's constituent amino acids and nucleotides anyway.

    The chances of a protein from a GM crop being harmful to you are the same as for any other protein, in fact it's safer, as the scientists who create these organisms will test the proteins they wish to incorporate for toxicity, something that doesn't happen for non-GM foods.
    Which is why people still eat button mushrooms raw, despite them being carcinogenic uncooked or runner beans which are packed with hydrogen cyanide and so need cooking thoroughly.

    I agree with Citta, I think most arguments against GM crops are based on emotion, specifically fear of the unknown.
    Cittavinlyn
  • Fear of the unknown isn't entirely invalid. It's a wild card. That said other experiments like fluorinated water have turned out ok.
  • blu3reeblu3ree Veteran
    edited August 2013
    Chrysalid said:

    I'm happy to eat GMO, DNA and protein is the same whether it's been modified or not, it all gets broken down into it's constituent amino acids and nucleotides anyway.

    The chances of a protein from a GM crop being harmful to you are the same as for any other protein, in fact it's safer, as the scientists who create these organisms will test the proteins they wish to incorporate for toxicity, something that doesn't happen for non-GM foods.
    Which is why people still eat button mushrooms raw, despite them being carcinogenic uncooked or runner beans which are packed with hydrogen cyanide and so need cooking thoroughly.

    I agree with Citta, I think most arguments against GM crops are based on emotion, specifically fear of the unknown.

    even when tests show that animals fed gmos develop tumors and cancer ?
    and that animals fed gmos can only live a certain length of time before their bodies start shutting down?
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    blu3ree said:

    Chrysalid said:

    I'm happy to eat GMO, DNA and protein is the same whether it's been modified or not, it all gets broken down into it's constituent amino acids and nucleotides anyway.

    The chances of a protein from a GM crop being harmful to you are the same as for any other protein, in fact it's safer, as the scientists who create these organisms will test the proteins they wish to incorporate for toxicity, something that doesn't happen for non-GM foods.
    Which is why people still eat button mushrooms raw, despite them being carcinogenic uncooked or runner beans which are packed with hydrogen cyanide and so need cooking thoroughly.

    I agree with Citta, I think most arguments against GM crops are based on emotion, specifically fear of the unknown.

    even when tests show that animals fed gmos develop tumors and cancer ?
    and that animals fed gmos can only live a certain length of time before their bodies start shutting down?
    references?

  • @Citta,
    Anyone who cares to research the actualities will discover that organic farms generate more soil and water pollutants which are measurable and quantifiable than any as yet unproven demerits of fracking.
    Sounds hard to believe. Google does not tell me anything to support this claim. Can you pass us a link?
  • @Chrysalid
    I'm happy to eat GMO, DNA and protein is the same whether it's been modified or not, it all gets broken down into it's constituent amino acids and nucleotides anyway.
    But you are not eating just the protein, you're eating of all the modified plant. Maybe you don't mind taking the risk that GMO has bad effects on your body, but perhaps other people don't want to take that risk.
  • Hi @vinlyn,
    Jll, you may want to read an article which seems far more balanced about the phenomenon of Indian farmers committing suicide. Try http://www.theinternational.org/articles/349-are-gm-seeds-to-blame-for-indian-farmer-s
    So, according to this article, the appalling policies of Monsanto were part of a larger equally appalling scheme to raid Indian markets, at the expense of local farmers. Although that gives insight to what actually happened, it doesn't sound more balanced to me.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    The part that interested me, maarten, was that the suicide rate among Indian farmers may be lower than among the general population.

    I don't think that I, in any way, painted multinational corporations as being multiwonderful. That's why I said "more balanced". Or is it bad to read additional information about the topic that more fully informs?
  • Hi @vinlyn,

    I misunderstood the part that compares suicide rates between farmers and the rest of the population, I see what you mean now.
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.