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The Watcher, the Dreamer, the Other, and Myself
Seph
Veteran
in Meditation
The Watcher, The Dreamer, the Other, and Myself
I have never been good at most sitting meditations, although I have practiced them for decades.
When sitting on the ground - whether in half-lotus, full-lotus, cross-legged, with a cushion or without - I will inevitably slump forward (bad for the breath) and eventually fall asleep. It's just the way it is.
When sitting on a chair (most commonly on the bus) I - once again - eventually fall asleep.
How I normally practice meditation is for 20-30 minutes in the early morning - before the family and household is awake. I practice sitting meditation using a seiza bench. I have never fallen asleep on my seiza bench to date.
Now, my commute to work is about a 40 minute bus ride. I don't know whether I'm just stubborn or a slow learner, but regardless of my past experiences I still attempt to meditate on the bus.... sitting... and I still end up falling asleep. However, this past week, I had a profoundly bizarre experience.
Last week, while 'meditating' on the bus - while still "sharp" and conscious within the confines of my head - I realized I not only fell asleep, but was beginning to dream. While fully cognizant, I watched myself dream.
I watched alongside the dull and groggy Dreamer what seemed like a unconnected jumble of images and half-understood stories. And oddly enough, some other part of my mind was acutely aware of where my bus was, because before my bus stop, I chose to awaken The Dreamer and depart the bus.
My question is, who is The Dreamer? Or maybe more importantly, who is The Watcher?
I have never been good at most sitting meditations, although I have practiced them for decades.
When sitting on the ground - whether in half-lotus, full-lotus, cross-legged, with a cushion or without - I will inevitably slump forward (bad for the breath) and eventually fall asleep. It's just the way it is.
When sitting on a chair (most commonly on the bus) I - once again - eventually fall asleep.
How I normally practice meditation is for 20-30 minutes in the early morning - before the family and household is awake. I practice sitting meditation using a seiza bench. I have never fallen asleep on my seiza bench to date.
Now, my commute to work is about a 40 minute bus ride. I don't know whether I'm just stubborn or a slow learner, but regardless of my past experiences I still attempt to meditate on the bus.... sitting... and I still end up falling asleep. However, this past week, I had a profoundly bizarre experience.
Last week, while 'meditating' on the bus - while still "sharp" and conscious within the confines of my head - I realized I not only fell asleep, but was beginning to dream. While fully cognizant, I watched myself dream.
I watched alongside the dull and groggy Dreamer what seemed like a unconnected jumble of images and half-understood stories. And oddly enough, some other part of my mind was acutely aware of where my bus was, because before my bus stop, I chose to awaken The Dreamer and depart the bus.
My question is, who is The Dreamer? Or maybe more importantly, who is The Watcher?
0
Comments
But it is not always so clearcut in conscious dreams. Probably your sense of identity drifted between the different entities without you being aware?
/Victor
It is quite possible to be aware of what is going on around you in a sleep state. For many, it is just where the inertia of one's effort to be mindful is not deterred by a resting cycle. This has usually occurred for me in monastic circumstances where the sleeping conditions were spartan enough to make one wonder if what I called mindfulness was really just the awareness of how lightly I was sleeping.
anyway....
I am not sure that trying to label or assign awareness or mindfulness to an identity is of much use. The conventional boundaries of self & other get pretty ethereal at the point of practice that I think you are talking about.
All the situations of chronic sleeping during meditation that I've seen have occurred as a defense mechanism to issues arising that the meditator was unwilling to face at that time. The difference between their circumstances and yours, is none of them ever found a posture that stopped the sleeping problem. Their meditating sleeping problems just stopped when they were finally willing to face the issue they were avoiding, which doesn't seem to match your situation.
Do you think its that your blood circulation or nerve pressure points that are being affected in any other position than the bench?
Will the seisa posture work as well if the zafu matches the support height of the bench and only the coccyx is supported?
I forgot to mention that many folks who slump forward in sitting meditation have either long hip to shoulder body measurements or shorter than normal arm lengths for their body trunk so that a typical joined hand meditation posture is not supported on the lap and that combined arm weight pulls their shoulders forward. Seiza on a bench or zafu, provides the higher thigh base exactly where the hand mudra can be supported.
The solution for cross legged positions is putting something on the lap that allows the hands/arms to be supported without consciously straining a muscle to do so. (eg, a rolled up sweater or thin cushion works well).
I mention this just in case it is your slumping forward-creating a shallow breath- and the result of an oxygen lack that induces a stupor.
Interestingly though, I've not had alot of success with the seiza position because my legs all asleep - all pins and needles - yuk! Clearly, that's a blood circulation issue. Coccyx? Tail-bone, right?
I'm not sure. I'm not sure that I've ever used a proper zafu. Off the top of your head, do you know what these hip-shoulder-body trunk-arm ratios for a 'normal' person might be? I've never looked into this (although I don't think I'm 'out of proportion').
(What's a "hand mudra")
@How Thanks for these useful and helpful suggestions!
The answer is to consult a flesh and blood teacher who knows their stuff.
Funny that you should mention this now. I've just finished writing another post for my blog on this very topic. (It's not yet posted - I've still to edit it yet). It's kinda a "meditation résumé" of sorts.
this is not uncommon I agree. But we are not supposed to investigate how the mind works in context of sleepy and dreamlike states. Dullness and drowsiness are hindrances to clearly seeing how the mind works. The Buddha often pointed to this. It is better to ask such questions after a bright meditation, not a sleepy one. So it may be intriguing, but I would advice you to let it go and try to cultivate less drowsy meditation.
With metta!
the dreamer and myself are you
the other is the dream
Without the dreaming, can a dreamer be said to exist. The act of doing "creates" the doer.
There are many websites with how you can practice metta loving kindness. I highly recommend you buy or borrow the book "Intermediate Stages of Meditation" by the Dalai Lama. Changed my life. I think it would be a strong next step for you.