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Paleo/Caveman Diet?

VagabondVagabond Explorer
edited September 2013 in Diet & Habits
The Paleo diet, also known as the Caveman diet, is where you can only eat fruits, vegetables, nuts, and meat. It is supposed to be the guidelines for what humans SHOULD actually eat; the stuff we ate before capitalism and all that bad stuff, lol. Anyway, I live with other people who refuse to buy ONLY those four things, so I haven't really done the Paleo diet, although I know that's kind of a cop-out. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone here has, or if anyone here at least has some information on it and is willing to share. Thanks

Comments

  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited September 2013
    Times have changed. Last time i tried it my wife dragged me around by MY hair.
    Just as well. I gather the hunter gatherers had a life expectancy of about 28 years.
    What has ' capitalism and all that bad stuff' done for us...?
    MaryAnne
  • I believe through research and other testimonies that all we need is a balanced diet that is mostly or all alkaline. All meat is acidic, beef being the most acidic and then chicken and veil being the least but still acidic. This is the healthiest way to live, just keep it balanced, alkaline and if you must take intoxicants know moderation and there physical and spiritual hang ups.

    /thread
  • VagabondVagabond Explorer
    edited September 2013
    Citta said:

    Times have changed. Last time i tried it my wife dragged me around by MY hair.
    Just as well. I gather the hunter gatherers had a life expectancy of about 28 years.
    What has ' capitalism and all that bad stuff' done for us...?

    I know we live in an age where diseases are less prominent than they used to be. I believe our life expectancy is higher because of that, and not McDonald's lol. I should have reworded it, sorry.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran
    Also, the more you can eat from the following 4 categories, the better. All natural diets around the world include all of these. If you come from a strong food tradition, sticking with that can do quite well for you possibly. But these 4 areas specifically.

    Foods that are unprocessed and as fresh as possible

    Meat *on the bone* (processed chicken breast from tyson doesn't cut it). When you eat meat from the bone and especially if you make stock or something from the leftovers, you get the benefits of the marrow and collagen and connective tissue, which is what helps to keep ours healthy. Instead of taking a glucosamine supplement, you can get the same stuff but more effective from eating meat this way.

    Organ meats (I still have a problem with this one, I just cannot get past them, lol)

    Sprouted and fermented foods. Make your own yogurt and sauerkraut. Very good for you. Not so much the yogurt with a ton of added sugar (which is most of what has fruit is, because it's fruit in syrup that is added...you're better off getting plain yogurt and adding your own fruit). Get sprouted grain breads or make your own. Add sprouts to salad. Very good for you.
    MaryAnne
  • karasti said:


    Organ meats (I still have a problem with this one, I just cannot get past them, lol)

    What, no kidneys or liver and onions, no tripe in tomato sauce with good crusty Italian bread? :lol:

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran
    edited September 2013
    I was scarred by being forced to eat liver and onions as a kid, and the second it touches my tongue, it makes me gag, LOL. I would probably have no problem eating it (other meats, liver I can tell a mile away) if I didn't know what it was. It's mostly a psychological thing...but yeah, no sweetbreads for me!
  • Interesting that something called the Paleo or Caveman Diet would exclude tubers. Stone-age people did dig up and eat tubers and root veggies. I know someone who's done the Paleo Diet, and did great on it. Anything that's mostly protein, and little starch will melt the pounds off, especially if you do weight-bearing exercise regularly, to build lean muscle mass.

    Archaeologists have found that humans got fat and developed new diseases and tooth decay after the development of agriculture. I don't know how dairy products figure into the whole thing. Are they considered Paleo? They're definitely pre-agriculture.
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran
    Pretty much, because all grains convert to sugar. Back in the day, true whole grains had less of an effect on our health because they are slower to convert and your body can properly process it before it overloads the insulin/hormone system. Not so with fast-absorbing processed, white grains. They are just as bad as eating candy as far as how they affect the blood sugar. Constant stream of insulin due to eating too many fast-absorbing carbs = inflammation in the body = disease. It disrupts the entire hormone cycle, from how your body reacts to insulin constantly being present, to how your body recognizes and tells you that you are full when eating.

    Paleo does not include dairy products. It's basically meat/fish/eggs, nuts, nonstarchy veggies and non-high glycemic fruits and healthy fats like olive oil. The meat and eggs ideally are grass-fed only. Tubers and legumes are out because they require cooking and according to the books, cavemen didn't cook so much. I don't know that I believe that. But it is true that they are toxic if they aren't cooked (legumes and tubers) at least to some degree.
  • karasti said:

    Pretty much, because all grains convert to sugar. Back in the day, true whole grains had less of an effect on our health because they are slower to convert and your body can properly process it before it overloads the insulin/hormone system. Not so with fast-absorbing processed, white grains. They are just as bad as eating candy as far as how they affect the blood sugar.

    But apparently a diet that's primarily grains, as it was after agriculture was developed, resulting in massive population growth which became dependent on grains, caused fat and cholesterol buildup. They say the egyptian mummified remains show carb-related diseases.

    Cavemen did cook by putting fire-heated rocks into tightly-woven baskets of water to cause the water to boil. But whether or not they kept water boiling long enough to cook legumes (did they figure out it takes less time if you pre-soak them?) isn't known, I don't think.

    So, too much insulin in the system causes inflammation? Good to know.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran
    Basically, yes. Say you eat a bagel and coffee with sugar for breakfast. Then a couple hours later you have a banana. At lunch you have a sandwich and some fruit. A few hours later maybe a granola bar. Then pasta (and more like 3 servings than 1) and garlic bread for dinner. That's an entire day of nothing but sugar in your body, and when the pancreas is having to push out insulin constantly, it throws off the hormones in the rest of the body, all of which causes inflammation, problems with joints, storage of all the extra carbs as fat, repeated blood sugar crashes which leads to eating more carbs.

    It doesn't help that the govt recommends so many carbs for a person to eat. Really, few people need more than about 100 grams of carbs a day. Most people eat closer to 300. More protein, fewer carbs would be better for most people. Obviously, elite athletes, growing teenagers and some others are a bit different, but for the average person that's a better way to go.

    That's interesting about the Egyptian's showing carb-related disease. I had not seen that. They have a purpose for sure, but we eat far too many of them, and almost all entirely processed carbs. Pasta is one of the worst. Most people I know eat pasta at least once a week, often far more often. A serving of white pasta is 42 grams of carbs. A serving is a half a cup. Most people eat more like 2-3 cups. You can easily get an entire day of carbs in one pasta meal.

    It's interesting, when you give up processed carbs and sugar, and then eat it again after a long period, it'll make you sick. Just like if you stop eating meat and then start again, it makes a lot of people sick. But with sugar, it's more because concentrated doses of it are basically toxic to our systems.
    JainarayanMaryAnne
  • karasti said:



    It doesn't help that the govt recommends so many carbs for a person to eat.

    I've never understood that. The old food pyramid was heavy on carbs. I think they finally revised it, or re-revised it to change that. It seems that those recommendations are based on a lot of ignorance. Or maybe....a farm lobby....


  • Because the food pyramid was, and continues to be, based on "recommendations" by the very food industries (later turned big-money lobbyists) who were pushing their particular food source.

    And no disrespect to "trained nutritionists" but it is the rare certified nutritionist who thinks outside the government/corporate-sponsored box and doesn't just parrot the information fed to us that is still based on the 'food pyramid'....

    "Good Nutrition" is best classified by medical people and scientists who study the body and how it processes food and works over-all; not nutritionists trained to assign merits (and demerits) to "diet plans"

    Jainarayan
  • MaryAnne said:



    "Good Nutrition" is best classified by medical people and scientists who study the body and how it processes food and works over-all; not nutritionists trained to assign merits (and demerits) to "diet plans"

    Medical people buy into fads, though, too. The whole idea that a low-carb diet is healthy for most people is still highly controversial.

  • MaryAnneMaryAnne Veteran
    edited September 2013
    Dakini said:

    MaryAnne said:



    "Good Nutrition" is best classified by medical people and scientists who study the body and how it processes food and works over-all; not nutritionists trained to assign merits (and demerits) to "diet plans"

    Medical people buy into fads, though, too. The whole idea that a low-carb diet is healthy for most people is still highly controversial.

    Absolutely True, about the medical people. (However, I'd disagree to some extent about the low-carb diets- but that's another debate).

    Generally, doctors are given a shamefully weak education in nutrition (if any education at all!) and most know even less than the average lay person who's been dieting for years - and intensively researching every new fad diet program as it comes along.
    Generally doctors know what they know about diet and nutrition from exactly the same sources as you and I do. Only the ones who specialize in medical fields which are heavily dependent on nutrition and food values (for good or bad effects on illnesses and conditions) really "know" about nutrition and what constitutes a "healthy, balanced diet". Those doctors who specialize, and scientists who study nutrition and the effects of foods on the body is what I meant. I should have clarified it a little better....

    But I'd like to add that doctors, generally speaking, are slowly- very slowly- coming to realize how lacking they are in the field of nutrition and are educating themselves. At least that's something. Better than it was a short 15-20 yrs ago.



  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran
    edited September 2013
    Most standards and education criteria that nutritionists receive (unless they are naturopathic/holistic in nature) are actually put together by the USDA. That's why almost all the schools, hospitals, nursing homes and other such places serve the same crap. The nutritionists who run the programs are told that's what they should do.

    When you talk low-carb, it totally depends on how many carbs, the person and their lifestyle and *what kind* of carbs. Almost all Americans would benefit from a lower carb diet because of the types of carbs they eat. Now, the diets that advocate for like 30 grams of carbs a day and make up the rest in proteins and lesser so in fat, I don't personally agree with. Just because processing that amount of protein is hard on the kidneys and running the body on ketosis is pretty stressful for many people. it's not something that should just be done willy-nilly. Now lowER carb, yes. Almost everyone in the western world could benefit from that. For most people even a change from the 250-300 grams a day they eat on average down to 100 grams would be a huge change, and contribute a lot to their general health levels.

    We're used to eating lower carbs because we have a diabetic child. When he was diagnosed we had no choice but to change the entire family's eating habits and it was for the better for all of us. It was a crabby few weeks in the house though, LOL. Because we have to track everything he eats in terms of carbs, we know by memory how many carbs are in most foods, and man, when I see people sit down to eat at Olive Garden and other places, it's just literally sickening how many carbs they are eating.
    MaryAnne
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran
    Just an example, this used to be my husbands typical day, and is still quite typical for a lot of people I know, worse yet, it's quite common among teenagers, except the whiskey, lol.

    Breakfast:Package of poptarts: 74 grams of carbs
    Mid morning snack: Can of pop (due to blood sugar crash from poptarts) 34 grams
    Lunch: Subway. Foot long melt, sandwich only. 94 grams of carbs (not including any ranch or dressing)
    Mid day: Another can of pop. 34 more grams.
    Dinner: Spaghetti and meatballs with garlic bread and an iceberg lettuce salad: appx 120 grams of carbs
    Snacks: a Whiskey diet coke and some chips: about 50 grams of carbs.
    Total day carbs: 406. That's horrific. Yet very common. And we wonder why we're so unhealthy. You can substitute the poptarts for 2 packages of oatmeal or 2 big bowls of cereal and get about the same amount.

    I got more kicking and screaming out of my husband when his fries were replaced with asparagus than from the kids. But he feels a million times better now. I think more people here care more about their health than the typical person. But track your typical day for a day or 2. Be honest. Track everything, including condiments. It adds up really fast. The sugar is everywhere, and your body treats all carbs as sugar. Just some are better (true whole grains, not just caramel dyed bread) because they absorb slower than others.

  • MaryAnneMaryAnne Veteran
    edited September 2013
    I used to keep track of carbs back in my dieting days.
    Actually, the one and only diet that ever (yes, that's EVER) worked for me and resulted in losing about 28 lbs in 6 weeks or so, was the Atkin's low-carb diet. LOW-carb, not NO-carb.

    The first 2-3 weeks are really rough, when you cut your 'normal' carb consumption down to less than 30 grams per day. Because like @karasti says, "normally" we all eat WAY too many carbs!

    If I recall correctly, once you are in the maintenance phase you are eating about 90-100 grams of carbs per day. Not too drastic, right?

  • Vagabond said:

    The Paleo diet, also known as the Caveman diet, is where you can only eat fruits, vegetables, nuts, and meat. It is supposed to be the guidelines for what humans SHOULD actually eat; the stuff we ate before capitalism and all that bad stuff, lol. Anyway, I live with other people who refuse to buy ONLY those four things, so I haven't really done the Paleo diet, although I know that's kind of a cop-out. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone here has, or if anyone here at least has some information on it and is willing to share. Thanks

    Cavemen don't have a lot of food to choose from. Given a choice, they'd give their limbs for MacDonald!

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    In the old movies they did give their limbs...to the dinosaurs!
    MaryAnne
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran
    mcdonald's would actually taste horrific to anyone not accustomed to eating it (or other foods like it) The extreme amount of salt (almost 2 days worth in some meals) would probably make it impalatable for ancient people.
  • karasti said:

    mcdonald's would actually taste horrific to anyone not accustomed to eating it (or other foods like it) The extreme amount of salt (almost 2 days worth in some meals) would probably make it impalatable for ancient people.

    MacDonald's DOES taste horrific! Too much grease. I can't stomach it, and I'm pretty sure "cavemen" and people in the Stone Age cultures that survive today, wouldn't be able to eat it.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran
    :lol: Good point, I agree. It is like eating cardboard covered in salt and fat and then it sits in your gut for a whole day. I don't think they would consider it food, actually. Raw heart and kidneys they would eat, but not mcdonalds. Funny how backwards we've become.
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