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jealousy is strange

We like someone, and that someone likes someone else. We become jealous - it is a spontaneous reaction, like experiencing fear at seeing a snake. It is not a learned behavior. It feels so intrinsic to one's nature.

Isnt that strange?

Comments

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    No.
  • vinlyn said:

    No.

    that it is instinctive.
  • Mu, false. Reread the third noble truth?
    riverflow
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    betaboy said:

    vinlyn said:

    No.

    that it is instinctive.
    No it's not. It's based on a life of experience.

  • vinlyn said:

    betaboy said:

    vinlyn said:

    No.

    that it is instinctive.
    No it's not. It's based on a life of experience.

    Is it possibly based on an instinctive urge to keep others away from our harem? To make sure that our seeds find their mark?
    Add a little mindless violence in there for the full effect.
    Its no fun anyway.
    42bodhi
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    robot said:

    vinlyn said:

    betaboy said:

    vinlyn said:

    No.

    that it is instinctive.
    No it's not. It's based on a life of experience.

    Is it possibly based on an instinctive urge to keep others away from our harem? To make sure that our seeds find their mark?
    Add a little mindless violence in there for the full effect.
    Its no fun anyway.
    Well, I don't think it's a "harem" issue. I think one can be jealous of friends having other friends. Etc.

    I agree, jealousy is not fun...been there done that...and not something I have admired in myself when it has popped up.

    I was just saying that I don't see anything strange about jealousy...seems like a rather logical emotion...albeit one that we would be better off without in most cases.

    robotriverflow
  • betaboy said:

    We like someone, and that someone likes someone else. We become jealous - it is a spontaneous reaction, like experiencing fear at seeing a snake. It is not a learned behavior. It feels so intrinsic to one's nature.

    Isnt that strange?

    I can see where you are going with this. For instance, even very small children show this trait. A baby sees another baby with different toy. The baby will put down whatever it was playing with and want to take what the other one has. I do think it is interesting.

  • no
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    betaboy said:

    It feels so intrinsic to one's nature.

    Probably because a human being, by definition, is intrinsically endowed with a defiled, impure and poisoned mind.

  • DavidDavid some guy The Hammer in Ontario, Canada, eh Veteran
    edited September 2013
    seeker242 said:

    betaboy said:

    It feels so intrinsic to one's nature.

    Probably because a human being, by definition, is intrinsically endowed with a defiled, impure and poisoned mind.

    That is conditioning. We are not born poisoned, we are born with the natural ability to wake up. The poison comes later.

    Instinct is evidence for a universal type of intelligence. I think jealousy goes hand in hand with curiosity.

    MaryAnne
  • Thanks for all the insights. It is good to view this from multiple PoVs.

    Let us say I have but a mild interest in a person. This person is having fun with a few other people. Watching this, I am in pain. Is this jealousy because I can't bear to see this person with someone else - or is it just that my ego can't understand how others can make this person happy (rather than me)? Or are they interconnected?

    This is why I said jealousy is interesting. It comes from nowhere, like an instinct rather than a learned behavior, plus sometimes (like the instance above) you don't even know if it is jealousy or something else entirely.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    It's very easy to be jealous. I have an elderly neighbor (although she is extremely active). I stop by her house almost daily. She and I are good friends, but neither of us has the slightest interest in a romance. Yet, when another of her male friends comes over to visit her, I sometimes get a strange, slightly jealous feeling.
  • misterCopemisterCope PA, USA Veteran
    seeker242 said:



    Probably because a human being, by definition, is intrinsically endowed with a defiled, impure and poisoned mind.

    Sounds a lot like original sin!

    @betaboy, I know where you are coming from. I don't know if it's instinctive or learned. It certainly feels instinctive sometimes. But, I think that human beings have a distinctive advantage over other animals because we can conquer our instinctive reactions.

    I heard a meditation teacher say this once: Imagine a small child who is sad. You have an ice cream cone. You give the child your ice cream cone and the child becomes happy, beyond happy -- ecstatic. Now you are happy! You've derived far more happiness from giving away something that belonged to you than you would have from keeping it to yourself.
    If you think about this or situations like this, you can cultivate feelings of generosity and goodwill towards others while also letting go of possessive feelings.

    Also, I think about possession a lot. If someone puts on your shoes and walks away in them, your shoes don't say, "hey, we don't belong to you!" For all intents and purposes, the shoes are now owned by the thief. Finders keepers and all that. Considering that, how could we ever think that we "own" anything, let alone another human being -- which is essentially all that jealousy is: a perceived ownership of another person.

    I'm rambling. I truly hope that your situation works out.
    _/\_
    betaboy
  • oceancaldera207oceancaldera207 Veteran
    edited September 2013
    I think part of it is that we take it as a blow to our self image...the jealous feeling is just as much about us as it is about the object of jealousy..if you see it that way does it makes more sense?
    I know that when I've felt jealous, I felt insecure simultaneously
    misterCopebetaboy
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited September 2013
    ourself said:

    seeker242 said:

    betaboy said:

    It feels so intrinsic to one's nature.

    Probably because a human being, by definition, is intrinsically endowed with a defiled, impure and poisoned mind.

    That is conditioning. We are not born poisoned, we are born with the natural ability to wake up. The poison comes later.

    I disagree! The Buddha taught, via dependent origination, that birth occurs because of poison, delusion, ignorance, impurity etc, etc, not the other way around. He taught that the very cause of birth, to begin with, is impurity and when there is no more impurity, there is no more birth.

    A being is born, to begin with, precisely because they are impure. He taught that if we were pure, we would not even be born to begin with. Hence the term "freedom from death and rebirth" upon getting enlightenment. He taught that we are born impure. It's the 2nd noble truth of the 4 noble truths. A "human being", by definition, is a being that is impure. However, that does not mean that a human being don't have the capacity to remove impurity, they certainly do.

    But the cause of human birth is clear, the cause is impurity. Unless you are a fully realized Bodhisattva deliberately returning to help others. :)
    "Thus, from ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications.

    "From fabrications...consciousness.

    "From consciousness...name-&-form.

    "From name-&-form...six sense media.

    "From the six sense media...contact.

    "From contact...feeling.

    "From feeling...craving.

    "From craving...sustenance.

    "From sustenance...becoming.

    "From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth.

    "From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. Such is the origination of this entire mass of stress & suffering."
    It would be accurate to condense that and say "From ignorance as a requisite condition, comes birth of human being"

    Unless you are a fully realized Bodhisattva deliberately returning to help others. :)

    :om:

    seeker242 said:



    Probably because a human being, by definition, is intrinsically endowed with a defiled, impure and poisoned mind.

    Sounds a lot like original sin!

    It is! It's the original sin of ignorance that has kept us stuck in samsara for countless eons and continues to keep us stuck until it is purified, etc.
    betaboy
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