Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
NKT Festival Portugal
mindatrisk
Veteran
0
Comments
Anything this controversial just turns me off from the get-go.
The day I hear something constantly positive and good about them, I might be persuaded to review my opinion.
I have formed an opinion on the NKT myself by actually trying them not from some close minded Dalai Lama follower's report on the internet and I know that there is nothing wrong with them and that some people are just jealous.
You may want it to be but it isn't.
Please be more open minded.
My mother has gone with me to meditation classes and retreats run by them and she wouldn't let me any where near a cult.
http://www.newkadampatruth.org/smear-nkt-is-a-cult
Why is it OK for you to call soooo many people "ignorant" and "jealous" and "mean" but it's not ok for people to express an OPINION about a group that -according to most dictionary definitions- IS actually a cult??
I'm getting pretty annoyed at your name calling and holier-than-thou bias towards everyone who doesn't agree with you or who chooses to respect the DL for who he is...
Differing opinions is one thing, name calling is really uncalled for.
And I am just defending here. @Mindatrisk made a completely innocuous thread and you lot jump in, use it as an opportunity to make shots about the NKT and have a field day with insults.
The Main teachings are.
Lamrim
Guru Yoga
How to engage in the Bodhisattva's way of life
Lojong
Action Tantra
Heruka & Vajrayogini Tantra with Ganden Mahamudra
all perfectly authentic practices from a master blessed by not only his Root Guru who is one of the most revered within the Gelug Lineage but also approved by one of the former Gaden Tripa's HH Ling Rinpoche the Dalai lama's other Tutor.
You can find allsorts over the net about figures and organisations however it doesn't make it true or representative as a whole of peoples experiences.
By comparison the Dalai lama could be called a cult leader he's not exactly what you would call free of controversy himself...
This could go on and on with name calling and mudslinging but id prefer not to indulge in such trite childishness. If you have no personal experience of things what does it say of you to engage in grinding away at the rumour mill ?
(And @Caz, I just saw your post above this)
When a religious group (of any kind), no matter how large or small, breaks away from the mainstream teachings of it's core religion, for any reason, it is by definition a "cult".
When a (religious) group requires very strict adherence to behavioral 'rules' -not set forth by the religion itself - and requires the surrendering of member's material possessions or money to the group in order to be a member/student ... it is said to be a "cult".
When any group requires singular "devotion" to a figure head, while discounting all other religious leaders (even of that same religion) as insignificant, or worse.... it is a cult.
When any religious group denies students/members from asking questions, reading any books not approved by the group leader, seeking information from other sects/leaders of the same religion, it is pretty much a cult.
In the NKT, there is a cult atmosphere- regardless if their teachings are "pure" & traditional or not.
The term cult is not limited only to what is taught, but it also includes HOW things are taught and the limitations placed on students/members for seeking knowledge/information/even friendships outside their control.
That is also a cult.
*IF* the many many stories told by former NKT members are true, (I know you choose to believe none of them are....) then from what they say, NKT in England is thought to be very cult-like by many people, former members or not. To label all of them "ignorant, jealous or mean" is ridiculous. Who is the one without the open mind, eh?
But the more people rail against having the opinion, the more I suspect it is.
The more people say you can't say it's a cult, the more I suspect it is.
That is actually typical cult behavior.
So keep condemning those with a different opinion, and you'll succeed in convincing me it is a cult.
Go figure.
Chonden the monk didn't seem like some cult leader. I've heard him advise folk new to Buddhism to explore it; to go to some other Buddhist sects and see what chimes with them, and then stick with what they find. This is not cultish behaviour.
I'd suggest that people try visiting one of their drop in meditation centres and form an opinion based on experience, rather than just believing stuff you read on the net.
And please, someone, give me the name of one Buddhist sect which hasn't been embroiled in some sort of scandal. I bet you can't.
I think some of the problem is that the NKT is still a fairly new sect (I understand their lineage and a little bit about the Kadampa tradition), but in the first flush of youth, they made mistakes and will probably continue to do so, but no doubt so has every other Buddhist sect there is.
And every serious NKT practitioner I've met have seemed to be lovely. So let's judge them on their fruits and not on daft internet squabbles.
I'm not a Buddhist, btw, neither am I affiliated with the NKT. I did my Buddhist foundation course with a Gelug school.
Well @Tosh, it's very possible some NKT centers are much better (or worse) than others. That certainly is something to consider when reading the negatives.
And I've never been asked to surrender material possessions or money; that's daft. What I suspect has happened is that some new monks - bitten by the first flush of dharma - has been over-zealous and tried to get people to renounce. I think it will just take a bit of time - if it's not already happened - for the sect to mature and calm down. Being under-fire from internet heroes doesn't help either.
I've tried to understand all the ins-and-outs as to why the NKT have fallen foul of HH DL and it sounds more political than spiritual.
You do know that the difference between a cult and a religion is about 200 years?
I'm a member of A.A. and some folk call that a cult too. I quite like the inferred kudos mind!
But I think that's what's happening here with regards the perception of some towards the NKT.
Just to repeat; I'm not affiliated with the NKT; I'm not even a Buddhist. But I've visited NKT classes many times - even helped organise local venues for them to teach at - and I've not witnessed anything I would class an untoward. Both monastics and lay Buddhists have been teachers at these classes.
@Tosh
Those two examples (you quoted from my post) of what people often consider "cults" were just that- general examples. I didn't say the NKT fit every one of the examples/criteria I listed...
Some people consider the Catholic Church a cult. And the Mormons (LDS) too.
I was a practicing Pagan for more than 35 years... Many people would say I was in a 'cult' too. Who cares?
Cult is a very broad and varied term, no doubt about it.
But there are generally accepted 'criteria' many people agree on when it comes to determining what constitutes a true "cult" or cult-like behaviors.
From the things I've read, *some* NKT groups *sometimes* get a check in the box next to several of those criteria /examples.
Did the specific NKT group(s) you experienced fit that bill? I don't know... you're saying they didn't. OK, I believe you.
But that doesn't mean I need to disbelieve everything else I've heard and read about other NKT members' experiences.
Sometimes, one man's "vicious rumor" is another man's "secret revealed".
There is certainly no requirement to singular devotion, but at the same time they are very heavily devoted to Kelsang Gyatso because that is their teacher - it's not a requirement, they choose to be in an NKT centre, why would you live in an NKT centre unless to be devoted to that particular path? No-one else is discounted. I talk openly about my interest in Zen Buddhism. I leave all sorts of different books lying around, and no-one has minded for a second. I've never once heard another religion or philosophy be put down or considered as insignificant, or worse. In fact, they simply recognise that everyone has their own unique karma.
NOT asking questions?! I have spent hours in this centre discussing and asking questions, and every single monk, nun and residents absolutely welcomes and encourages it. They emphasise very strongly that we should be asking questions and challenging the teachings. I read lots of different books around the centre, but I think the monks and nuns stick to NKT books, but again, why else would you become an ordained monk or nun in a tradition if not to study their particular teachings?
All of the above comes from impartial experience gained over 2 years of frequently visiting a centre for long periods of time. I have no in interest in NKT teachings, but I cannot deny what a wonderful community they have here, nor how kind and supportive the residents are. And what you have outlined above is simply false - at least for the centre I visit.
When I attended NKT run events I was not told what to think but only to think about what they were teaching us about for ourselves. There was no culty atmosphere at all.
And just because they don't have a photo of the Dalai Lama in there centre or only sell books by GKG when there is nothing wrong with that.
I don't have any experience of Zen though, so I'll keep an open mind about it.
Cheaper than EuroDisney at that price . Is it similar to a retreat or more like a rock festival? Hard to gauge from the infomercial.
One man's cult is another man's orthodoxy, don't you think? And there are crooks and predators everywhere. The trick is to learn to trust your own instincts and go with what feels right for you. Especially if money is involved.
Anyway @mindatrisk are you going to the festival If you can it would be very worthwhile Geshe-la is giving teachings on the Prajnaparamita from his revised Book New Heart of Wisdom. It will be a wonderful time I wish I was going to see him.
But it is absolutely fine to call the NKT a cult.
It is not a cult; full stop, end of.
http://buddhismnewkadampa.wordpress.com/
My understanding of the issues surrounding NKT and HHDL are almost entirely based on a particular protector practice and the HH's repudiation of it. That's fine, HH can do as he pleases. However, this is purely a Gelug matter and being a Kagyupa, myself, it is of absolutely no concern to me - none of my business. If the DL wants to repudiate Dorje Shugden that's fine, but I am under no obligation to do anything with or about that repudiation. Now, if the Karmapa was to come out with somethingm, that would be a different matter, but other factors then come into play. Even if I was a Gelugpa I am still under no particular obligation to HH. Some years back, HH made some rather "unfortunate" statements regarding GLBT Buddhists. Had I been a Gelugpa at the time, I would not have abided by the DL's statements and if asked would have repudiated them as uninformed, ignorant, fundamentalism. Fortunately I am not in a position where that is necessary.
So if I want to read NKT texts or go to NKT centers, it's entirely up to me and I can and will decide based on standards that suit me and not a bunch of Tibetan Buddist drama.