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Guerilla Dhafare - YouTube

Hello :)

I'm sure that many of you have noticed that YouTube - and, in particular, YouTube comments - is a veritable bitch-fest, with people arguing, insulting and, generally, expressing all their very worst attributes from the safety of their computer. It's not even a minor issue on a few videos. In fact, i'd say the vast majority of YouTube videos that I go on are littered with abusive behaviour.

Alas, it is what it is. What we can do is to begin to promote healthier messages within videos - messages that encourage tolerance, understanding, respect, and harmonious interaction in YouTube comments. Now, this could be done as a stock message that everyone shares alike so that it becomes a recognisable thing, or people could just share their own individual message as they see fit. A stock message could be something like this...

LIKE this if you too wish for people commenting on YouTube to be tolerant and understanding of each other; to unite in all their common desires and wishes; to express all and only their good, loving qualities; and to be happy and at peace with who they are… And, if you really like this, then copy and paste this message onto every video that you watch, and let’s spread some love around this place… it is needed.

I sent this message out about a year ago on a few videos and got quite a bit of abuse in response, i.e. 'fuck off you twat' etc. BUT, this is good! Whilst it is enough to simply share the above message, if you feel that you can engage with responses in a peaceful manner then all the better because you will have the opportunity to walk your talk and set an example of what peaceful, respectful, tolerant etc. interaction looks like, especially so in the face of confrontational, abusive responses. However, if you didn't feel able to respond and engage peacefully then it would be infinitely better to just leave it at the message.

Again, the purpose of this idea is to share positive messages (and examples where possible) where they are needed. I am sure that there are plenty of people on YouTube who feel very similar about the abusive, nasty behaviour that pollute so many videos, so here is an opportunity to put our practice into action and use our compassionate and wise skills to benefit others.

Peace be with you all. :)

......

For those not familiar with the term, Guerilla Dhafare is a movement dedicated to sharing the Dharma through unconventional, skilful means with new audiences. Here is a link to a recent thread that discussed the concept and its merits...

http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/19641/guerrilla-dhafare#latest

Comments

  • You can disable comments if you post a video on YouTube, and that's probably the best course.

    I don't even read YouTube comments, let alone engage with them. The best way to deal with trolls is ignoring them.
  • mindatriskmindatrisk Veteran
    edited October 2013
    poptart said:

    You can disable comments if you post a video on YouTube, and that's probably the best course.

    I don't even read YouTube comments, let alone engage with them. The best way to deal with trolls is ignoring them.

    I don't mean for my own videos (of which I have none) but videos that I watch - comedy, music, sports, spirituality, food etc. And it's not trolls as such, just regular people arguing and being abusive towards each other.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    No wonder you received abusive responses. You sound like an interfering smartass....

    It's not your problem.
    People post stuff by the millions, and they will always receive a massive plethora of responses. I'm sure they have their 'big boy/girl pants on" and can deal with it if they choose to. It's part and parcel of publishing, and a common risk they take.

    As with anything published for public use.

    Look to yourself first, before attempting to be someone else's Knight in Shining Armour...you can't 'protect' everything. So it's best to let it be and watch your own camp.

    ;)
    lobsterThePensum
  • federica said:

    No wonder you received abusive responses. You sound like an interfering smartass....

    It's not your problem.
    People post stuff by the millions, and they will always receive a massive plethora of responses. I'm sure they have their 'big boy/girl pants on" and can deal with it if they choose to. It's part and parcel of publishing, and a common risk they take.

    As with anything published for public use.

    Look to yourself first, before attempting to be someone else's Knight in Shining Armour...you can't 'protect' everything. So it's best to let it be and watch your own camp.

    ;)

    I'm not trying to protect the video publisher. They have the option to moderate comments or take the comments option off. I'm trying to promote a message of harmonious, tolerant human interaction on YouTube. Is it my problem? Yes, because I care and i'd like a peaceful planet. It reminds me of the quote by someone or other...

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

  • YishaiYishai Veteran
    edited October 2013
    Your chances of piercing that veil are next to nil. The only people you attract with that are those who are already not abusive. And the chain-comment nature by itself is off-putting. It is too diluted, commercialized (can't think of a different word here), impersonal, and does not really touch the heart. That's a problem.

    Even then, you may come across as just another new-age self-help addict. You know... the guy that touches his chakras with energy crystals while hollering "metta!".
    ThePensum
  • There are Christians doing this sort of thing all the time on YouTube. They seem to get ignored mostly.
    Invincible_summer
  • Yishai said:

    Your chances of piercing that veil are next to nil. The only people you attract with that are those who are already not abusive. And the chain-comment nature by itself is off-putting. It is too diluted, commercialized (can't think of a different word here), impersonal, and does not really touch the heart. That's a problem.

    Even then, you may come across as just another new-age self-help addict. You know... the guy that touches his chakras with energy crystals while hollering "metta!".

    Interesting points. I'm not sure what angle to approach from. Granted, with a 500 character count limitation it's going to be difficult to share anything too in depth, although the 'lacking heart' aspect could be worked on. What makes you think the chain-comment element is off-putting? Is that a personal thing or do you think most would feel the same? I'm not bothered how I come across per se, so long as I walk my talk. Thanks for your thoughts. The concept is there, and I think there's something that can be done within it, I just need to flesh it out. Thanks again.
  • robot said:

    There are Christians doing this sort of thing all the time on YouTube. They seem to get ignored mostly.

    Hmmm, but are they pushing Christ, or promoting peace? I didn't get ignored when I did it for the first time, although I got a few hostile responses, but this is good, because I can engage with them and use it as an opportunity to demonstrate what i'm promoting, y'know? I don't know, and have no way of knowing, if anyone shared the message, but there is something there. It's like how people share those uplifting picture quotes on their Facebook pages, but on YouTube.
  • No wonder you received abusive responses. You sound like an interfering smartass....
    Cruel but true.
    I know as it it takes one to know one.
    And now back to the interfering . . . :D
  • DaftChrisDaftChris Spiritually conflicted. Not of this world. Veteran
    Can I be honest?

    While you may think that this would be a great cause, I think the general population would see it as nothing more than religious spam. Which, if you go to the right videos, YouTube has plenty of.
    riverflow
  • The idea that you should incite people to anger, so that you can prove that you are calm, is strange.
    It's like starting a war so that you can be killed, thereby proving your faith in god.
    If you are creating hostility, it's the opposite of skilful.
    The least I can do is try to recognize when I have been unskillful.
    MaryAnneriverflowInvincible_summer
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    While I may not go as far as Federica went in her comments, in general, here I tend to agree with her.

    When I watch YouTube videos, I do often read the comments...depending on what the topic is. I don't care to waste my time with off-topic posts.

    And, even more importantly to me, I don't want someone else being the thought and speech police.

    There's a time and place for most everything...intruding into the thoughts and speech of others will not be appreciated.
    riverflowInvincible_summer
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited October 2013



    I'm not trying to protect the video publisher. They have the option to moderate comments or take the comments option off. I'm trying to promote a message of harmonious, tolerant human interaction on YouTube. Is it my problem? Yes, because I care and i'd like a peaceful planet. It reminds me of the quote by someone or other...

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

    You assume everyone would consider you 'good' and those that post comments, 'evil'.

    Good and evil are subjective.

    Who are you to presume that your actions are good?
    Only you.

    Given the degree of dissent, it may be that your opinion of what is good vs evil, is somewhat....tinted.

    "No good deed goes unpunished".

    If we're lobbing quotations at one another.


  • robot said:

    The idea that you should incite people to anger, so that you can prove that you are calm, is strange.
    It's like starting a war so that you can be killed, thereby proving your faith in god.
    If you are creating hostility, it's the opposite of skilful.
    The least I can do is try to recognize when I have been unskillful.

    Do you think that this...

    LIKE this if you too wish for people commenting on YouTube to be tolerant and understanding of each other; to unite in all their common desires and wishes; to express all and only their good, loving qualities; and to be happy and at peace with who they are… And, if you really like this, then copy and paste this message onto every video that you watch, and let’s spread some love around this place… it is needed.

    ... is inciting people to anger?

    I don't mind if you want to respond to my threads, but it's a bit pointless if you are just misconstruing what i've said. Hostility may arise, but that is not necessarily because of me, is it? Is Chinese hostility towards the Dalai Lama because of the Dalai Lama?
  • DaftChris said:

    Can I be honest?

    While you may think that this would be a great cause, I think the general population would see it as nothing more than religious spam. Which, if you go to the right videos, YouTube has plenty of.

    Actually, i'd rather you'd have lied and just told me how Bodhisattva I am. But thanks for asking. :D

    I don't it matters too much what the general population thinks. Even the Dalai Lama doesn't expect or believe everyone - or even most people - to really take onboard what he is saying, and some are even very much against what he says, but that doesn't stop him sharing his message, and nor should it. Those with ears to hear are few and far between, but once they are found, you ignite a flame that casts a radiant light for many.
  • mindatriskmindatrisk Veteran
    edited October 2013
    vinlyn said:

    While I may not go as far as Federica went in her comments, in general, here I tend to agree with her.

    When I watch YouTube videos, I do often read the comments...depending on what the topic is. I don't care to waste my time with off-topic posts.

    And, even more importantly to me, I don't want someone else being the thought and speech police.

    There's a time and place for most everything...intruding into the thoughts and speech of others will not be appreciated.

    I'm not sure what you mean by this bolded section. In what way would I be doing this?
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    I am reminded of an exchange on one of the old Dean Martin roasts.

    Don Rickles: "It takes many years to become a truly great comedian."
    Dean Martin: "Yeah, and you ain't reached that point, yet."
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    robot said:

    The idea that you should incite people to anger, so that you can prove that you are calm, is strange.
    It's like starting a war so that you can be killed, thereby proving your faith in god.
    If you are creating hostility, it's the opposite of skilful.
    The least I can do is try to recognize when I have been unskillful.

    Do you think that this...

    LIKE this if you too wish for people commenting on YouTube to be tolerant and understanding of each other; to unite in all their common desires and wishes; to express all and only their good, loving qualities; and to be happy and at peace with who they are… And, if you really like this, then copy and paste this message onto every video that you watch, and let’s spread some love around this place… it is needed.

    ... is inciting people to anger?
    Yes. It's covert criticism and fault-finding. People with opinions don't like to be singled out and picked on. They resent it. hence, the vitriolic kick-backs....
    I don't mind if you want to respond to my threads, but it's a bit pointless if you are just misconstruing what i've said. Hostility may arise, but that is not necessarily because of me, is it? Is Chinese hostility towards the Dalai Lama because of the Dalai Lama?
    He's not misconstruing what you said. And using HH the DL as an example, is a 'smoke and mirrors' argument.

    People expect 'Great Wisdom' from the Dalai Lama, because actually, he is teaching Buddhism to those who wish to be taught. It's a select audience, and they want to be told how to behave.

    The people you're 'preaching' to have no desire to read your message. Evidently.
  • federica said:



    I'm not trying to protect the video publisher. They have the option to moderate comments or take the comments option off. I'm trying to promote a message of harmonious, tolerant human interaction on YouTube. Is it my problem? Yes, because I care and i'd like a peaceful planet. It reminds me of the quote by someone or other...

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

    You assume everyone would consider you 'good' and those that post comments, 'evil'.

    Good and evil are subjective.

    Who are you to presume that your actions are good?
    Only you.

    Given the degree of dissent, it may be that your opinion of what is good vs evil, is somewhat....tinted.

    "No good deed goes unpunished".

    If we're lobbing quotations at one another.


    It is certainly true that good and evil are subjective, and I don't assume anything, but i'm not sure that this (or something like it)...

    LIKE this if you too wish for people commenting on YouTube to be tolerant and understanding of each other; to unite in all their common desires and wishes; to express all and only their good, loving qualities; and to be happy and at peace with who they are… And, if you really like this, then copy and paste this message onto every video that you watch, and let’s spread some love around this place… it is needed.

    ... is going to be interpreted as evil by most people.

    Who am I to presume that my actions are good? Who are you? Who is anyone? We live and die by our decisions and our beliefs. We all have to work it out for ourselves. I think that this YouTube idea could (with some development) be a positive thing. It's worth trying. Anyway, back hand down the line...

    'Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.'
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    If you're going to use quotations to underpin your actions, don't then switch boats midstream and back-pedal on your own argument.

    To mix my metaphors horribly.
    riverflow
  • federica said:

    robot said:

    The idea that you should incite people to anger, so that you can prove that you are calm, is strange.
    It's like starting a war so that you can be killed, thereby proving your faith in god.
    If you are creating hostility, it's the opposite of skilful.
    The least I can do is try to recognize when I have been unskillful.

    Do you think that this...

    LIKE this if you too wish for people commenting on YouTube to be tolerant and understanding of each other; to unite in all their common desires and wishes; to express all and only their good, loving qualities; and to be happy and at peace with who they are… And, if you really like this, then copy and paste this message onto every video that you watch, and let’s spread some love around this place… it is needed.

    ... is inciting people to anger?
    Yes. It's covert criticism and fault-finding. People with opinions don't like to be singled out and picked on. They resent it. hence, the vitriolic kick-backs....
    I don't mind if you want to respond to my threads, but it's a bit pointless if you are just misconstruing what i've said. Hostility may arise, but that is not necessarily because of me, is it? Is Chinese hostility towards the Dalai Lama because of the Dalai Lama?
    He's not misconstruing what you said. And using HH the DL as an example, is a 'smoke and mirrors' argument.

    People expect 'Great Wisdom' from the Dalai Lama, because actually, he is teaching Buddhism to those who wish to be taught. It's a select audience, and they want to be told how to behave.

    The people you're 'preaching' to have no desire to read your message. Evidently.


    First of all, no-one is being singled out or picked on. I'm not sure where you are getting that from. Second of all, I recall receiving maybe 2 or 3 hostile responses, but who knows how many people read the message and agreed or even shared it? I wouldn't know.

    I think that Robot absolutely did misconstrue what I said. I never said that I would incite people to anger so that I could prove how calm I am, I just pointed out that if hostility did arise then that would be an ideal opportunity to demonstrate the content of the message. If I was unclear about this then it's my fault, but i'm not sure that I was.
  • federica said:

    If you're going to use quotations to underpin your actions, don't then switch boats midstream and back-pedal on your own argument.

    To mix my metaphors horribly.

    I'm not using quotations to underpin my actions. I think you know that. Where have I switched boats and back-pedalled on my own argument, sorry?
  • YishaiYishai Veteran
    edited October 2013
    These people need help. They need compassion, kindness, and understanding. That is the best way to spread the Dhamma. Making some vague announcement on how people should behave and act... that does nothing.

    That vague announcement not only ignores the individuals that this is directed against (that they aren't important enough to be addressed directly) but also points out flaws and faults. A double whammy to the human ego. Really unskillful there.
    riverflowEvenThird
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Apology accepted.

    First you use the quotation

    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" -

    Top imply that you are a good man, reluctant to permit evil to triumph.
    And that was your implication. The intention was to 'underpin' your action.

    Then, when I point out that such qualities are subjective, you flip the discussion (back-pedal) and ask who would construe your comment as evil, realising that I do in fact have a point.

    I was then not sure where you were going with your discussion, therefore, or in fact, what you're even now attempting to imply.
    Other than the fact, possibly, that you agree with me, and that interpretation of intention is the individual's prerogative, and that your 'good' intention has been thrown back in your face as unwarranted, undesired and unwelcome. (ie, 'evil').
  • Yishai said:

    These people need help. They need compassion, kindness, and understanding. That is the best way to spread the Dhamma. Making some vague announcement on how people should behave and act... that does nothing.

    And, 2500 years later, how are we doing with this? I'm not saying you are wrong at all. I agree 100%, and on a different planet with a different species i'd happily go with the above, but what I think more humans need to realise is that we are an absolute mess - it might be normal to us, and we might not have any obvious frames of reference to compare ourselves to, but how humanity is conducting itself is insane. I'm not sure why. Maybe there is a dark force like an Illuminati or something on the planet manipulating things. I don't know. But I do know that if humanity is to have peace, and if humans are to be happy, then those who can, and those who are aware, all need to step up and make some real efforts. These efforts might not be the ideal, they might be unconventional, but given the state of humanity, I think they are needed. But that's just my personal feeling. You may disagree, but it doesn't make either of us right or wrong, just different.
    Yishai said:



    That vague announcement not only ignores the individuals that this is directed against (that they aren't important enough to be addressed directly) but also points out flaws and faults. A double whammy to the human ego. Really unskillful there.

    The message isn't directed at any individual, or even any group in particular. It's just there. Also, what is wrong with pointing out flaws and faults? What is wrong with pointing out that anger and abuse and hostility are damaging?
  • federica said:

    Apology accepted.

    First you use the quotation

    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" -

    Top imply that you are a good man, reluctant to permit evil to triumph.
    And that was your implication. The intention was to 'underpin' your action.

    Then, when I point out that such qualities are subjective, you flip the discussion (back-pedal) and ask who would construe your comment as evil, realising that I do in fact have a point.

    I was then not sure where you were going with your discussion, therefore, or in fact, what you're even now attempting to imply.
    Other than the fact, possibly, that you agree with me, and that interpretation of intention is the individual's prerogative, and that your 'good' intention has been thrown back in your face as unwarranted, undesired and unwelcome. (ie, 'evil').

    Hmmm. I'm not sure i'm following you here. I'm not sure it's even something that can be discussed. As soon as subjectivity is brought into it then everything is muddied. Hitler thought he was good and so did many others, whilst many others saw him as bad. Jesus thought he was good and so did many others, whilst many others saw him as bad. So, i'm not really sure what can be said now. I'm just doing what I think is right to do. This is what you are doing too. You might see my actions as wrong, and I might see your actions as wrong. Is anyone right or wrong? I don't know. Who can be the judge? Maybe that's why we needed a God, aye? But this is a bit of a brick-wall discussion as far as I can tell. Unless you can point something out to me.
  • Spam is spam is spam.
    MaryAnnevinlyn
  • riverflow said:

    Spam is spam is spam.

    Meaning what?

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Spam = unsolicited material sent over the web.

    When people watch a YouTube video, they expect the responses to be related to the topic of the video.

    Thus, your proselytizing, however well meant, would be spam.
    riverflowThePensum
  • vinlyn said:

    Spam = unsolicited material sent over the web.

    When people watch a YouTube video, they expect the responses to be related to the topic of the video.

    Thus, your proselytizing, however well meant, would be spam.

    Flicking heck! Hardly a concern is it? I mean, given all of the junk that is written online, all of the abuse and insults people trade, all of the nasty, derogatory remarks people make about each other, if me promoting tolerance, kindness, peace etc. is regarded as spam then so be it. I can live with that.

  • And, 2500 years later, how are we doing with this? I'm not saying you are wrong at all. I agree 100%, and on a different planet with a different species i'd happily go with the above, but what I think more humans need to realise is that we are an absolute mess - it might be normal to us, and we might not have any obvious frames of reference to compare ourselves to, but how humanity is conducting itself is insane. I'm not sure why. Maybe there is a dark force like an Illuminati or something on the planet manipulating things. I don't know. But I do know that if humanity is to have peace, and if humans are to be happy, then those who can, and those who are aware, all need to step up and make some real efforts. These efforts might not be the ideal, they might be unconventional, but given the state of humanity, I think they are needed. But that's just my personal feeling. You may disagree, but it doesn't make either of us right or wrong, just different.

    Progress is slow. 2500 years is quite a short time relative to the universe. (~.000018% of the time the universe has been around)

    Humans may be a mess, and that's okay. It is part of being human. You must have a frame of reference or else you would not think it was insane. You have an ideal in your mind, and it bothers you that your ideal is not made manifest in the world.

    We are making real efforts. And my suggestion was to make a real effort. One that actually is effective, curative not diagnostic. Be the medicine, not the doctor.


    The message isn't directed at any individual, or even any group in particular. It's just there. Also, what is wrong with pointing out flaws and faults? What is wrong with pointing out that anger and abuse and hostility are damaging?

    That is my point. The problem with fault-finding is that it is not corrective or constructive... again. You have successfully announced that being mean is not nice, and that angry things hurt others' feelings. It does not change anything. In fact, people proceeded to get angry toward you. So.... you are perpetuating further suffering.
    riverflow
  • vinlyn said:

    Spam = unsolicited material sent over the web.

    When people watch a YouTube video, they expect the responses to be related to the topic of the video.

    Thus, your proselytizing, however well meant, would be spam.

    I'm warming to this word. I am a proselytiser. I am trying to convert people to compassion and kindness. It's quite cool.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    It's also decidedly non-Buddhist.

    As a generally accepted rule - Buddhists don't proselytise.

    I fail to see how productive this discussion is. Frankly, it's going nowhere.

    riverflowlobsterStraight_Man
This discussion has been closed.