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Will the Thai government fall?
vinlyn
Colorado...for now Veteran
Huge protests coming to a climax today. You can follow it all...minute by minute...at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/685649-breaking-thailand-live-sunday-1-dec-2013.
Thus far, little involvement by monks.
Thus far, little involvement by monks.
0
Comments
good...
I don't mind monks giving dhamma talks with regards to how to deal with stuff that happens in lay life, but taking sides or advocating one side or the other in politics and social issues is not the place for a monastic.
People have already died, a bus was set on fire with a suspected person inside. Chaos will ensue and is ensuing. Tomorrow the yellow shirts declare a general strike.
It is just the same every 3-4 years, whoever is in power, the opposite party gets together and rallies, the government is ousted, people die and it starts over again. Something tell me Thailand wasn't ready for democracy
Of course, I don't really know anything about Thai politics so just ignore me. I'm just REALLY not a fan of Figurehead positions in politics a la The British monarchy and the American Presidency.
He used to be a very activist king who rose from being only a total figurehead as a very young man, to building his power steadily to the point that he had almost total power when he decided to use it. Usually it was behind the scenes or very nuanced, but in some cases he became very directly and publicly involved. And interestingly, he used his relationship with Buddhism as one major factor in gaining almost total respect from the people. In 1992 he put an end to the Suchinda government...had PM Suchinda and Chamlong Srimuang (his main rival) crawling around on their hands and knees literally on international television while he sternly lectured them, resulting in the end of that government within hours. And that political difficulty paled in comparison to what happened 3.5 years ago and currently.
And yes, Tom, he is the longest reigning Thai king and the longest reigning monarch currently alive in the world. Interesting, when this dynasty began in 1782, the royal fortune tellers predicted there would be 9 kings in this dynasty...and King Bhumipohl is the ninth.
Anyway watching the news and things still getting worse, gun fire and they seem persistent to storm the government buildings. I have a feeling Yinluck is going to have to leave all together soon. Then what? Same old same old, some yellow shirt democracy steps in and in 3 years the red shirts will get all spurred by Thaksin and do what is going on now by the yellow shirts.
Don't you know that the King forever looks 20...except, of course, in real life.
:rolleyes:
Anyway today was meant to be the day that the people took the government buildings and completed a coup, but they have failed for the most part. It is the Kings Birthday on the 5th and I wonder if they will actually stop in respect, I dunno.
I don't think the problem here is that Pheu Thai is controlling the country, as much as the problem is who is controlling Pheu Thai. Until that is resolved there will be no ultimate peace in Thailand.
The yellow shirts and others who are now protesting tend to be the old power structure, which would include the upper class, growing middle class, well educated, the army, and the royalty. They also tend to be more from Bangkok and the south.
The red shirts (who practically burned everything in site 3.5 years ago; okay, that's an exaggeration, but 30 major buildings is a lot of arson) tend to be the poor, the uneducated, no work skills other than perhaps farming, the police (note that for the most part, the army and police are on opposite sides, and both are extremely powerful). They are especially strong in the Issan plateau and somewhat in the north.
There are several major themes, but they're all mixed up:
1. We want democracy but we love our royalty.
2. We don't even know what democracy means.
3. If we don't like the way it's going, let's have a coup. That's democracy. No, it's not. (BTW, there have been at least 18 coups since 1832 when the absolute monarchy ended).
4. If we don't like the coup, let's punish the coup-makers.
5. Mass protests and riots are democracy. No, they're not.
6. Let's write a new constitution that favors our side. (There have also been at least 18 constitutions since 1932).
7. I want what I want when I want it.
Several years ago an ass named Taksin got elected PM. He was corrupt as they come and very needy for attention. Though a multimillionaire himself, he put in reforms such as national health care, and other things that particularly benefited the poor. Through that and outright buying of votes (nothing new there, but also never to that extent) he amassed so much power that the military stepped in and took over the government. Taksin was convicted of various offenses and fled the country (now in Dubai). The opposite party took power...Abhiset became PM and was a pretty clean politician (no wonder he failed in Thailand). The red shirts wanted Taksin back regardless of his illegal deeds, demonstrated, rioted, but couldn't quite pull off bringing Taksin back. So they put his sister up as PM...and to varying degrees it's brother Taksin who pulls the strings, although I sense she is a little more independent than some think.
Meanwhile, in the back of every Thai's mind is the age and frailty of King Bhumipohl, who they honestly love. That will (probably) bring to power his son...the relatively hated Prince. And most (if you get them to talk privately) see that as a very dark day.
So everything is changing in a society that resist change far more than most. Nothing is reliable. Nothing is dependable. The future is a haze.
Sorry.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25221607
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25252795
Election in Feb. Everyone happy, until new govt does not live up to expectations...
Isn't it frustrating when there is no way to separate the good guys from the bad guys? When it's all just people unhappy and mired in old grudges and looking for an excuse to act on their anger?
@anataman pretty much lol. Unless Thailand suddenly wakes up and comes out of this continual cycle of electing, ousting and fighting, there will be no change. However I see it in the younger generations, the more educated ones at least that there is a degree of differing ideology going on. Even in my partner who is 42 now, she was born in Issan which is red shirt territory, she has said that both sides are as bad as one another, nothing will help the situation if this continues and it will only continue to hurt the nation. Yingluck is probably going to win the election though as she has more followers, but nothing is certain. If she loses, who will come into power? If she does lose though I can see the red shirt movement feeling as if they have been duped and thus will rally and get angry. If she wins, the yellow shirts will probably go back to protesting and try to oust her, but it is all based on predictions and the past plus my personal opinion.
Up until 1992 he did lead, but since then he had done virtually nothing. He never says anything specific. He gives speeches that everybody watches...and then ignores. He has done nothing to save the country from his son becoming king. And, he has ultimately approved every one of the eighteen coups, every one of the 18 constitutions, and every one of the failed governments. Not once has he raised a finger to say anything of meaning when lousy governments and poor constitutions have been promulgated. What can we say about his reign? Oh, some good things long in the past. And the most military coups of any country in the history of the world. As far as I can find out, the most failed constitutions of any country in the world. I read the other day that during his reign -- since 1946 -- only 1 government has finished its regular term of office. And he signed off on every failed decision. He has done nothing to dismantle one of the harshest lèse majesté laws in the world. And meanwhile, he has amassed a personal fortune in excess of $30 billion.
Of course, I have to give you the following advice, Tom -- don't respond to my post.
Anyway Vinlyn have you ever asked a red shirt why they like Thaksin? Why they like that party? I am curious to know if you have ever done this yourself?