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Difficult meditation lately . . .

HamsakaHamsaka goosewhispererPolishing the 'just so' Veteran
Epilogue: You all know I write long posts, I'll try to keep this succinct, and thanks in advance if you take the time to read it through :-/ I'm fairly new to daily meditation, since the beginning of October. I was so "ready" to meditate (just how it felt) that I went easily up to 40 minutes per sitting, recently up to 45 in the last two weeks. The "technique" is focusing upon the breath, at my nostrils; doing a body sweep at the beginning to relax, and returning focus to the breath when my attention goes off with a thought. I either meditate the entire time this way, going into that access concentration (I guess) where thoughts flit by, or seem to be more like pieces of images and there is peacefulness. If there is an emotionally charged issue, I'll focus upon the sensation in my body and give myself metta, sometimes even seeing spontaneous imagery and 'hearing' though not in words per se, but there is communication going on. My heart center just throbs to the point it hurts physically, but even then after the meditation there is greater peacefulness and ease than before.

I meditate close to bedtime, it just seemed to work out that way. I've never fallen asleep during meditation except when I meditated in the afternoon, so late evening it's been.

This means I meditate after I get home from work (swing shift), and the three times I have been unable to meditate have been after work. By 'unable', I mean I focus on the breath, sweep the body, am deeply relaxed but the thoughts are so charged I take a ride on nearly every one. I end up struggling to watch them instead of think them, if that makes sense. It will go on and on like that, and the deeper levels do not arise.

Two days ago, I gave up and checked my iPhone timer and I'd only been meditating for 20 something minutes, which felt like much longer. When meditation 'happens', 45 minutes goes by and the zen bell sound sometimes surprises me. Last night, the cats played with some alpaca fiber on the floor which got sucked into the space heater which made a horrible smell and a little smoke -- end of that meditation.

But that time, I tried something different. Instead of struggling to stay detached from the thoughts (normally I can do this fairly well) I surrendered and thought every single thought deliberately and followed every stupid fractal every thought had, and might have gotten somewhere with it (wherever that may be) but then the burning alpaca happened.

I know there are good meditation days and bad meditation days, and I also know that this is a dual, human mind imposed distinction on something that is neither good nor bad, right nor wrong. Also, this must be extremely common especially for new meditators.

As a Dharma friend, what if anything would you suggest I do when this happens?

I end up struggling, which is missing the point (whatever that is :D ) and since it is my mind causing the problem, I'd like to hear from others who might have insights or experiences that wouldn't occur to me :)

Gassho :)





BhikkhuJayasaraJeffreyanataman

Comments

  • This is not the way I learned vipassana I can't say, but I have done thousands of hours
    and I can say that ups and downs are not uncommon. In normal vipassana people usually get to a point where they recognize they are constantly being distracted and they feel they are struggling. This has been called the time of recognizing the enemy.
    Anyway, I wouldn't take it too seriously or become dismayed or distracted. Just keep practicing. Change is normal and not a bad sign. mtgby
    BhikkhuJayasaraHamsakaInvincible_summeranataman
  • BhikkhuJayasaraBhikkhuJayasara Bhikkhu Veteran
    Dennis1 said:

    I wouldn't take it too seriously or become dismayed or distracted. Just keep practicing.

    @hamsaka your "difficulties" are shared by me. I can give no advice other then what I do myself, however worth it or right that is. You do everything I do pretty much(metta 4tw!), although I've NEVER gotten into a regular practice of " 45 minutes went by like it was nothing" haha, I've only experienced that maybe 2-3 times, how nice it would be if it were daily(attachment!).

    I do love what Dennis said though as when I get into very tough or negative periods, I just know that eventually this too will pass and to just keep practicing and eventually insight will come. At this point it's all about determination and keeping desire to put forth effort.
    HamsakaInvincible_summer
  • As a Dharma friend, what if anything would you suggest I do when this happens?

    I end up struggling, which is missing the point (whatever that is :D ) and since it is my mind causing the problem, I'd like to hear from others who might have insights or experiences that wouldn't occur to me :)
    :)
    what if anything would you suggest I do when this happens?
    it is my mind causing the problem
    Dennis1 said:

    Just keep practicing.

    agree with @Dennis1

    as you have asked for a little insight I would suggest love/welcome/accept the difficulty.
    . . . do about it?
    Ideally do nothing for or against but that might not sit so easily . . . :wave:
    Hamsakaanataman
  • BarraBarra soto zennie wandering in a cloud in beautiful, bucolic Victoria BC, on the wacky left coast of Canada Veteran
    It's always different. Just keep sitting till the bell rings (or the cats screw something up) and then get up and go about your business. No big deal.
    HamsakaInvincible_summeranataman
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran
    This is very helpful. There is no problem. This is good news :D

    If it happens tonight, I'm gonna Thich Nhat Hanh it; Darling, I see you (in breath); I smile upon you (out breath).

    I have a hard time believing there is no problem unless someone with more experience tells me there isn't so THANKS!!

    @Jayantha; I didn't mean to make that sound like it happens even most of the time, it doesn't! Could be I'm having a honeymoon period, too, being fairly new. I resisted meditating for twenty years, and dreaded it for a couple of months after therapist suggested it before I tried it. I was positive the silence would rise up and smash me flat with anxiety. I am still shocked that exactly the opposite has happened!

    Gassho :)
    BhikkhuJayasaraDennis1
  • Your practice is excellent. Keep experimenting!
    Hamsaka
  • Maybe think about why you are meditating. What is your conviction? I am having a very similar problem as you. I can't find the booklet I need, but if I find it I may post in the thread sometime later. (with info from my booklet)
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran
    Of course, last night's sitting was quiet, more 'normal' (ie, frequent thoughts, improving observing versus jumping on them and riding them). The zen bell rang before I'd gotten too anticipatory :P lol. Apparently, tattling on my mind last night to Dharma friends was helpful. The previous time it happened, it was just one sitting of intense, intrusive thought/imagery and little observation/watching, every thought/image so charged I went off with it. The next sitting was again (mostly) peaceful, focused (mostly), like what I perceived as a 'decent' meditation for my development as a newbie.

    @Jeffrey: What is my conviction? Thank you for that. Tara Brach (a Buddhist psychologist and meditation teacher) asks that same question in her guided meditations. I haven't used this to focus myself in my own sittings, thank you, it obviously is important.

    There have been sittings where I did have 'intention' and others where I have none, and allow whatever to arise, but I haven't made that intention (or lack thereof) focused and conscious.

    @Fivebells: You know . . . thanks :):):) that means a lot and is very comforting ((hugs to you!))

    Gassho :)
  • @Jeffrey: What is my conviction? Thank you for that. Tara Brach (a Buddhist psychologist and meditation teacher) asks that same question in her guided meditations. I haven't used this to focus myself in my own sittings, thank you, it obviously is important.

    @hamsaka, I mean to have in mind why you practice. If you have a lot of resolve regarding the importance. Honestly Looking back at your OP my comment was a non-sequitar :( Oh well. I think I was more inside of my own struggles rather than understanding yours.
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran
    @Jeffrey, well, whether you were sequiterring or not, your question resonates strongly with me . . . AND, when you think about it, brings a fresh perspective to the fact that we are not actually separate beings :D

    Besides, I missed your point and feel and even stronger resonance now that I understand what you originally meant by intention.

    Why do I practice in the first place?

    Oooooh, thanks!!!

    Gassho :)
    Dennis1
  • At the risk of ceaseless repetition: The mental barriers arise because of the grasping after self. Catching the attachment when it rises makes it simple to just let it go.
    Hamsaka
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran
    Judgments about my meditation experience, sneaky little efforts at selfing :) Hmmm, much to ponder there, that was very sneaky.

    It's so amazing . . . catching the attachment versus being attached. Being attached made it look like a problem that needed fixing, do you think? This is pretty profound . . . elusive, but I got its tail hopefully.

    The mental barrier arises when conditions of self arise?

    So when a seeming barrier or stuck place is encountered, would you say it indicates grasping after self, in a general way? All sorts of "barriers" be they literal or mental/emotional? Probably they are the same phenomenon :eek2:

    Gassho :crazy:
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran
    This famous parable brought me some insight under similar circumstances that emphasises the point that we can come to recognise habit and obstructions and allow one to deal with them (but with my take on it).

    I walk down the street on my way to work, I step off the kerb and into a hole full of muddy water. Damn that puddle… I am dirty, wet and angry for the rest of the day. Damn those council workers, why haven't they fixed it. I'm going to write a letter of complaint, because its someone else's fault, not mine. I pay my taxes… rant rant rant all day long. :rant:

    The next day I walk down the same street, step off the kerb and into that hole full of water again. What a is going on, did they not get my e-mail which told me how angry I was. I am really angry and annoyed again! :aol:

    The next day I walk down the street. I see the hole and watch myself inevitably step in it again. It is a habit, I know that hole is there, I know I am stepping in it, and I know I am dirty and wet. But I still step into it. :dunce:

    Today I walk down the same street and see the same hole, but this time I walk around it and walk off whistling a merry tune. It's a happy day today. :bowdown:

    Tomorrow, I am going to walk down another street… Tum diddly tum. Om mani pade hum. :om:
    JeffreyHamsaka
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran
    Thank you @anataman. Of course I've heard this old parable before, and of course, it hasn't occurred to me until now to apply it to THIS situation (meaning, whatever THIS is in the moment to do with my practice). Holy crap, this is a parable of conditioned arising!

    I'm just beginning, barely barely beginning, to connect some dots in a way I never have before.

    Conditioned arising; if it is my deep-seated belief that suffering is caused by external forces (the council on filling muddy holes not doing their job AGAIN), I will always be ranting and raving, firing off emails, complaining and judging and shaking my fist and poking my finger at others, who's fault it is, that I am suffering goddammit. My life sucks cuz YOU aren't doing YOUR job to make my life not suck. Therefore, YOU suck cuz you make MY life suck and the whole world sucks because of YOU.

    Conditioned arising; if it is my deep-seated belief that my suffering has causes within my erroneous perceptions of life, I will, at least on my second jaunt down the road, be disinclined to place my own foot in the muddy hole I walked through yesterday. I put my foot where it goes. When I walk, I do so mindfully, without my head in the clouds of my next project or what happened to me last week. I am mindful because it is my responsibility to perceive the environment AS IT IS, not what I wish it would be if only the council would do their job goddammit.
    **********************************************

    Now this is interesting . . . I've read and heard that the 'self' is wily, sneaky and does all kinds of maneuvers to reinforce itself. Kinda makes it sound like a little con man. I read and hear it, but didn't really relate to it. Being a 'self' when I was younger felt like an imperative,and probably it was, and now at middle age, I appear to be motivated to shed this 'self' as I traipse along the downhill path to my death.

    So my sitting last night was . . . profound, scary, unsettling (I suddenly felt like I was STARVING TO DEATH the last five minutes and jumped up afterward to eat).

    If I am remembering correctly, the last time I had difficult meditations, ie, no focus, just 30 minutes of jagged kidnapping emotions jerking me around, the subsequent meditations got a bit 'deeper'.

    Well, last night, it got deeper all right. "I" spent quite a while not being . . . not being. Rather, JUST being. No "I". Just this 'spreading' sensation (a little physical, a little mental and emotional) and then, nothing. It felt like . . . nothing at all, until after it passed, and then I got very, very hungry. Like I needed to put the weight of some food inside my body. It's OK, I recognize a deeper level in meditation, it's where I'm going, it's in the plan :) It didn't hit me that weighting myself down with food was a feeble effort to ballast myself until writing it down now.

    The 'self' doesn't like to give ground, perhaps, and when my body/mind is on a precipice of going 'deeper', the self gets panicky like a little kid begging for attention. The dumping of food into my belly was part of that, too.

    It's good to write this out, it helps me integrate and absorb my experience.

    Gassho :)
    anataman
  • My teacher says to just recognize the self as 'thinking' and then let go again to the breath. I need to do that; I have just rediscovered the meditation booklet that goes with my course.
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited December 2013
    Some years ago, I found meditation becoming more and more difficult so that I was very tempted to give it all up as a load of nonsensical bad job. It would even bring on angina attacks, which I now recognise as being down to my breathing and not primarily to my IHD. Three things saved my practice (four if you count inborn pig-headed stubbornness): the fiurst has already been mentioned: intention. I spent time quietly examining my intention in meditating. I swept aside any pretence, any 'high' ideals, and started from the most basic. My conclusions are my own - yours will be yours but honesty and a clear-eyed look at oneself (not always easy or comforting) bring rewards.

    The second - and this remains integral to my daily 'work' - is preparation. This is not just arranging the cushion, etc. It involves standing in front of the place where I shall sit and 'blessing' it, bringing to mind that I am becoming part of millennia of people (of all faith families and none) who have also sat in meditation. I take Refuge in the Triple Jewel and then - and only then - I sit. If necessary, I use hand mudras to settle myself too.

    Finally, if things are going 'badly', I revert to the basic meditation on the Precious Human Life. So simple, so pure, so primary. If that is all I am capable of in all the time I am sitting, I get up renewed.

    I am aware that these are my strategies but I offer them if they can be of any help to my sisters and brothers who, like all the generations before and after us, struggle with the simplest and hardest of tasks: to sit quietly for a bit.
    anatamanJeffreyHamsaka
  • I am aware that these are my strategies but I offer them if they can be of any help to my sisters and brothers who, like all the generations before and after us, struggle with the simplest and hardest of tasks: to sit quietly for a bit.

    :bowdown:
    To sit quietly for a bit.
    A good strategy.

    I take refuge in Mr Cushion aka the Buddha
    I take refuge in the insights of Mr Cushion aka the Dharma
    I take refuge in sittings with Mr Cushion aka the Sangha

    and if I can not do that, maybe I'll rest my head on Mr Cushion and z z z . . .
    :clap:
  • Some years ago, I found meditation becoming more and more difficult so that I was very tempted to give it all up as a load of nonsensical bad job. It would even bring on angina attacks, which I now recognise as being down to my breathing and not primarily to my IHD. Three things saved my practice (four if you count inborn pig-headed stubbornness): the fiurst has already been mentioned: intention. I spent time quietly examining my intention in meditating. I swept aside any pretence, any 'high' ideals, and started from the most basic. My conclusions are my own - yours will be yours but honesty and a clear-eyed look at oneself (not always easy or comforting) bring rewards.

    The second - and this remains integral to my daily 'work' - is preparation. This is not just arranging the cushion, etc. It involves standing in front of the place where I shall sit and 'blessing' it, bringing to mind that I am becoming part of millennia of people (of all faith families and none) who have also sat in meditation. I take Refuge in the Triple Jewel and then - and only then - I sit. If necessary, I use hand mudras to settle myself too.

    Finally, if things are going 'badly', I revert to the basic meditation on the Precious Human Life. So simple, so pure, so primary. If that is all I am capable of in all the time I am sitting, I get up renewed.

    I am aware that these are my strategies but I offer them if they can be of any help to my sisters and brothers who, like all the generations before and after us, struggle with the simplest and hardest of tasks: to sit quietly for a bit.

    This is particularly inspiring to me as I am at a crossroads examining my meditation. I always thought I'll do a year of meditating every day. I have accomplished that but I need to re-examine my method and I have found new life, so to speak, in reinvestigating the souce materials for my Buddhist course.
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