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deja vu

I was having a chat with my 14 year old son this evening about some of the things I've learnt about Buddhism.....he believes in rebirth and mentioned deja vu being one of the reasons he thinks hes been around before..

I imagine most of us have experienced deja vu....(tell me if I'm wrong)...what do you think from a Buddhist point of view?

Comments

  • jaejae Veteran
    Funny :)
  • DobsDobs Maine, USA Explorer
    I'm reminded of the quote by that great philosopher Yogi Berra, 'It's like deja vu all over again'
    Anyway I think science has gone over it pretty well and has something to do with a sort of neurological echo, nothing mystical. Assuming re birth you might remember someone in a previous life but they woudn't be in the same body and place as before so what would there be to remember?, Ah federica beat me to it.
  • jaejae Veteran
    @federica....thanks for the links I'll pass them on to my son

    @Dobs...who knows I've not really given it much thought before ...I've had the feeling and I know the name...be interesting to read the scientific points of view 
  • Though ESP cannot cannot be demonstrated to be repeated in a controlled environment, (except arguably with (PEARS) there have been countless recorded instances of it occurring. Many of these have no plausible explanation given our understanding of physics. Very good examples can be found when researching precognitive events that occur with twins or close family members. There have also been many recorded events serendipitous events that defy the odds to the billions.
    Not all Buddhists are simply 'moral atheists',.though this viewpoint is prevalent here I believe.




  • jaejae Veteran
    Hi oceancaldera207...thanks ....btw what is PEARS...googled it but all I'm getting is fruit
    xtine
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran
    There may be perfectly plausible (and repeatable) explanations for things like deja vu, but remember 'perfectly plausible' doesn't mean some kind of flat, boring predictability!

    Spend some time trying to grasp quantum physics, which concludes (my clumsy nutshell here) that at a subatomic level, objects are in a hazy state of probability until they are observed by something with some form of consciousness (a snake or a human) only after which they become 'actual'.

    You can really hurt yourself pondering this, so be careful.

    Gassho :)
  • jaejae Veteran
    @Hamsaka......ha ha ha ha ...me and quantum physics in the same sentence is a miracle in itself..you never know.... have they got forums where I can do more 'heads' in!
  • fromquarkstoquasars.com/wacky-physics-are-entangled-particles-connected-by-wormholes/
    @jae
    Quantum entanglement is also an interesting subject.


    PEAR : Princeton Engineering Anomaly Research.
    princeton.edu/~pear/







  • jaejae Veteran
    @oceancaldera207.....thanks I've just read it but its all gobbledygook to me but thanks for posting anyhow...
  • Well basically they've discovered that pairs of particles great distances apart have a direct relationship to each other, with no apparent explanation...yet.
    PEAR was Princeton's ESP research department. Their most well known study used random number generators to test the purely mental influence on external factors. They also did studies on on the apparent specific and anomalous harmonic resonance in ancient archaeological sites.



    on twin telepathy


  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran

    fromquarkstoquasars.com/wacky-physics-are-entangled-particles-connected-by-wormholes/
    @jae
    Quantum entanglement is also an interesting subject.


    PEAR : Princeton Engineering Anomaly Research.
    princeton.edu/~pear/


    I was just reading about quantum entanglement last night. How the scientists try to 'fool' one of the entangled twin photons into behaving as if it is not being observed to see if the twin being observed behaves the same way. They do, but I can't remember why :D I doubt I got this right . . .

    All this stuff is to do with subatomic particles, which ostensibly behave the same way when aggregated into compound matter (like atoms or a tree). They haven't managed a to experiment with quantum-ly entangled atoms or molecules (or trees) to see if the same results happen.

    There was a thread recently about Robert Lanza who wrote "Biocentrism". I read the article the thread linked, and then got the ebook. Lanza goes on and on about quantum entanglement and where other physicists like Stephen Hawking 'explain' quantum entanglement with the theory of multiple universes, Lanza asserts the explanation is consciousness itself. Lanza is a biologist, not a physicist, so his bias is understandable. On the whole, a 'biocentric' universe (as opposed to Newton's universe) has some congruence with Buddhism's cosmology, and is something a person can 'relate' with better than a universe of tick tocking 'dead' matter spreading out from a Big Bang.

    If you like this sort of thing, the book is easy-ish reading, it is not a textbook, it's more like part memoir, part high-pressure super-excited on fire "Look at this! WOW!!". It has quite a few negative reviews, no doubt by constipated left-brain dominated scholastics who got their expectations dashed.

    Gassho :)


    Jeffrey
  • oceancaldera207oceancaldera207 Veteran
    edited December 2013
    Hamsaka I am also aware of Lanza! I have browsed both sides of the argument on whether his propositions are valid, and couldn't form an opinion either way. I might go look them over again.
    Frankly my mind is completely blown by relativity and the big bang expansion. Space and time are so inorexibly linked that all time existed within the singularity. ! ! And spacetime is like a fabric that expands with us in it! And the expansion is equal everywhere, so it's like you could say that we came from everywhere and nowhere at the same time! So profound!
    I wish I had tried to solve my question earlier; which direction can we point at the sky and be pointing at the origin of the universe, where the big bang was...
    We can't! I love it!!
    Jeffrey
  • And then of course, theres the 99.9999999999999% of matter is empty
    space.... I guess this measurent doesn't mean much at quantum levels because terms like 'space' and 'solidity' apparently lose all meaning at the subatomic level...

    physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=74297
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    jae said:


    I imagine most of us have experienced deja vu....(tell me if I'm wrong)...what do you think from a Buddhist point of view?

    Discussions on rebirth? :p
  • jaejae Veteran
    @SpineyNorman....hi, do you mean you want to discuss rebirth ?
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    jae said:

    @SpineyNorman....hi, do you mean you want to discuss rebirth ?

    No, it was just a joke.

    jae
  • jaejae Veteran
    @SpineyNorman... ha ha no it was just something my son was talking about!.... however always good to hear other peoples opinions!... what do you think?
  • Déjà vu might be one of the reasons for belief in rebirth. But when I've experienced it there's been no sense that it was a scene from a previous life, only that it had happened before at some time. I couldn't say when, because "when" has never been part of the experience for me. I couldn't tell if it happened long ago or very recently, only that it was somehow a "replay."

    I guess from a Buddhist point of view I'd like to view it dispassionately as an experience, and not feel compelled to create a story that it fits into (like reincarnation). But it's been many, many years since it's happened, and I have no idea how to trigger it.
  • Deja vu ain't what it used to be…

  • jaejae Veteran
    @SpineyNorman... virtual chuckle..... sorry not always apparent in cyber space!
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran

    And then of course, theres the 99.9999999999999% of matter is empty
    space.... I guess this measurent doesn't mean much at quantum levels because terms like 'space' and 'solidity' apparently lose all meaning at the subatomic level...

    physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=74297

    And apparently, if quantum theory is indeed fact at the compound matter level, 'solidity' is only a potential when you aren't looking at it.

    I enjoyed Robert Lanza's thoughts on whether or not something is 'real' (ie, solid and actual rather than a potential) when no one is looking at it. Even better, how about the bush outside my window? It's qualities; green, brown, shiny leaves, a few dark red berries left over from summer. The colors are merely interpretations made INSIDE the back end of my brain by exchanges of information with cones in my retina. The edges of each leaf and twig are interpretations of background and foreground erected by some gadget in my left brain hemisphere. That it IS a holly bush is only something some long dead botanist named it . . . what in the hell is a 'holly' anyway?

    So what is this . . . squiggly pokey thing hanging out in spacetime? It's a holly bush, but only because my BRAIN whipped up the recipe (and possibly because I'm looking at it, if biocentrism has any truth to it :D )

    Going along like this REALLY makes the Buddha's assertions about 'emptiness' take on in-your-face kind of meaning.

    Now back to pretending it's all real and there and what everyone says it is . . .

    Gassho :)
    jaeJeffrey
  • @Hamsaka, Trungpa Rinpoche had another master visiting his stomping grounds. They were close enough for ear shot of the other people on the retreat. But they were alone together. After a long silence Trungpa commented, "they call that a tree". Then both of them started laughing.
    Hamsaka
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran

    I wish I had tried to solve my question earlier; which direction can we point at the sky and be pointing at the origin of the universe, where the big bang was...
    We can't! I love it!!

    Another way of looking at it is to say that anywhere you point at is where the big bang occurred since all of space came and expanded from that singularity. :eek2:
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran
    Jeffrey said:

    @Hamsaka, Trungpa Rinpoche had another master visiting his stomping grounds. They were close enough for ear shot of the other people on the retreat. But they were alone together. After a long silence Trungpa commented, "they call that a tree". Then both of them started laughing.

    That is hilarious :)

    Haven't you ever suddenly realized a word you just used sounds extremely weird or stupid? And then you say it over and over to yourself and it just gets stupider?

    Maybe the less we question what we think, the better. If you want things to stay exactly the same, never question your thinking; it will be easier to insist upon what you don't know why you don't question what you think about that way :D

    The more you question it, the stupider and weirder it gets (whether schizophrenia is involved or not). I think that might be because it IS weird, and we are stupid if we insist it is 'real'.

    Gassho :)

    riverflow
  • I have always loved the wordluggage.
    Stuff you lug.
  • person said:

    I wish I had tried to solve my question earlier; which direction can we point at the sky and be pointing at the origin of the universe, where the big bang was...
    We can't! I love it!!

    Another way of looking at it is to say that anywhere you point at is where the big bang occurred since all of space came and expanded from that singularity. :eek2:
    Yes! Everywhere and nowhere at the same time!

  • holographic principle
    This is a newer assessment coming out of string theory, that 3 dimensional reality is essentially a projection.. I havent analyzed it too much but it looks like it stems from black hole observations.
  • oceancaldera207oceancaldera207 Veteran
    edited December 2013
    Jeffrey said:

    @Hamsaka, Trungpa Rinpoche had another master visiting his stomping grounds. They were close enough for ear shot of the other people on the retreat. But they were alone together. After a long silence Trungpa commented, "they call that a tree". PThen both of them started laughing.

    If you like this then check out some LinChi Lu. When huang po is asking about the rice, he is saying it in the same vein as 'they call that a tree'.

    "Huang Po asked the monk in charge of cooking rice: 'what are you doing?'
    The monk says 'I'm picking over the rice for the other monks'
    Huang Po said: ' how much do they eat every day?'
    The monk says 'two and a half piculs'
    Huang Po said; 'isn't that too much?'
    The monk says: ' i'm only afraid it isn't enough!'
    Huang Po immediately struck him a blow.

    Later, the monk went to master Lin-chi and told him about the incident. The master told him he would straighten out Huang po for him.

    So, Lin chi then went to Huang Po and said ' the monk didn't understand when you were asking him about the rice. Would you be so kind as to put as to put yourself in his place and give us a proper response?"
    He then said to Huang Po,
    "Isn't that too much rice?"
    Huang Po says:
    "Why not say, 'tomorrow you'll have a tatse of it!' ?"
    Lin Chi replied
    "Why say tomorrow, have a tatse of it right now!" As soon as he had finished speaking, he gave Huang Po a slap!
    Huang Po said " this raving idiot coming in here and pulling the tigers whiskers!"

    :)

    Oh, picking over is a cooking term that means picking out little rocks and such. And a picul is about a shoulder load of rice.
  • Just wondering, if Deja vu is a quark of neurochemical dumps in an unaligned manner, then how can people see places they've never been, and in an opposite gender, in a specific timeline?
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