Drive & Motivation vs. Avoiding Grasping

bowsermail

I'm not a practising Buddhist but am interested about the philosophies of Buddhism. I've learnt that a central tenant is that one should try to reduce our inclination to grasp, to control etc. However, it poses a paradox to me because much of my motivation and drive comes from the fact that I have an urge to change the situation, to make an impact. I can't imagine I'd want to make an effort at all if I didn't have this drive and letting go of that urge would surely dampen my motivation. For example, as an entrepreneur I want my business to succeed. It is immensely frustrating when things don't work but that's what drives me to want to improve the situation; to keep at it and try again and again, and that tenacity is what helps me eventually succeed. And I find much, positive fulfilment in making an impact. Does any one else wonder about this?

Rodrigo

As you could see for yourself already, your grasping leads to suffering — and sometimes to joy. So, if you have success, you are fine. If you don't have, you are not. Therefore, your well being is conditioned to the presence of something you can't always control. Buddhism can help someone to be happy regardless of these conditions. You would keep your motivation to work, but perhaps you wold be less dependent on success.

bfg84

Ive been pondering something similar,
I was setting some goals on 43 things last night and started thinking about how goals surly encourage clinging?
So they cant be very Buddhist can they?

But then 2 of my four goals were to meditate daily and learn more about Buddhism!

im sure it probably has something to-do with how Skilfully you handle them but ill wait with interest to hear the opinions of others more practiced than myself.

x

Rodrigo

bfg84 said:

Ive been pondering something similar,
I was setting some goals on 43 things last night and started thinking about how goals surly encourage clinging?
So they cant be very Buddhist can they?

But then 2 of my four goals were to meditate daily and learn more about Buddhism!

This initial motivation is necessary to begin practicing. I think we all have or had this at some point. However, with time you may learn not to be so attached to it, because you see that your motivation is ego driven ("I want to be a a bodhisattva", "I want to get rid of suffering").

Do your thing, don't worry too much about this. It will come naturally.

bowsermail

Great insights, thanks guys

anataman

Don't you find though that when you've achieved your goal or ambition, although there is an initial exhilaration, like with passing an exam or actually reaching the position in your career path you have been aiming for - It can lead to a deflating experience, when you realise that to get on further you need more drive and ambition and other goals. I have spoken to many people who have finally retired and their goal was to be retired all their working life, yet when you ask them if they are happy now that they have finally done it, there is an uncertain yes, followed by a but...

Nek777

I read a story about a trader that had hopes of getting rich and provide a good life for his wife, children and parents.. But every year when he went to the market, he failed ... Time and again for 8 years. It got to the point where he was going to quit, he sat down by a tree and noticed an ant trying to climb the plant - the ant failed 8 times and then succeed. The trader then determined to try one more time, like the ant ... He succeeded.

Drive, motivation - these are good things. Avoidance and grasping are tools of the ego. To be sure, motivation can be harnessed by the ego - just gotta keep ego in check. At least, that is what I have been taught. I think there is a fine line and we dance on the edge. But, intentions matter.

I am motivated in my dharma practice - Is that bad or good? Is it really for the sake of all sentient beings? A constant mindfulness and analysis - not sure if it ever stops.

cvalue

I run a small family business and I want success too. But since I become Buddhist, I recognize that nothing is permanent, nothing can guarantee that my business will prosper and last forever. With this new attitude, I continue to work very hard as usual but I don't worry much because I understand that it's normal that any thing can just disappear (bad weather, the war, government, hyper inflation...). So why worry? why get frustrated? Clinging to it is futile! Do the best I can and I have nothing to regret.

I also learnt that I am me, I am not my success, my wealth, my business. My job doesn't define my identity, who I really am. So if my wealth disappears, it's just the wealth, it has nothing to do with me.

With this more relax attitude, I feel better, I meditate to open my mind so I am not clinging to external objects. My business actually improves. My only problem now is to work with my ego. I understand that I can never kill my ego completely but the less ego the better for me.

bowsermail

@anataman Well.... I have fallen into that trap before... but lately I focus on enjoying the journey that life takes me on the way to achieving the goal. Iit's the experience of the adventure that's important to me now. But it does mean that I must set the goal in the first place otherwise I'll never begin that adventure. And chasing that goal with tenacity keeps me in the adventure.

So if I had to retire, I'd certainly be unhappy if I didn't embark on any new adventures after retiring. Retiring would hopefully be the end of just one particular journey.

Zero

bowsermail said:

I'm not a practising Buddhist but am interested about the philosophies of Buddhism.
I've learnt that a central tenant is that one should try to reduce our inclination to grasp, to control etc.

However, it poses a paradox to me because much of my motivation and drive comes from the fact that I have an urge to change the situation, to make an impact.
I can't imagine I'd want to make an effort at all if I didn't have this drive and letting go of that urge would surely dampen my motivation.

For example, as an entrepreneur I want my business to succeed. It is immensely frustrating when things don't work but that's what drives me to want to improve the situation; to keep at it and try again and again, and that tenacity is what helps me eventually succeed. And I find much, positive fulfilment in making an impact.

Does any one else wonder about this?

Not so sure it is a 'central tenant' or even a 'tenant' as such.
There is always an issue of definitions and these vary greatly across the spectrum of human interpretation.

Paradoxes are not inherently a bad thing - explore them deeply and cut out fantasy as far as possible - rinse, repeat, re-examine.

You say 'change the situation' but are you really changing any situation or are you 'slotting into the situation where you fit'?
By that I mean, there is an inclination to afford focus to the events before us manifesting and correspondingly a disinclination from the chaos that is the simultaneous 'everythingelse'.

Jeffrey

Motivation should not be lost because of Buddhism. But the motivation should switch from worldly goals to spiritual. Still obviously you want your business to succeed. So the question is can we make effort at something worldly and still be a Buddhist? I think the answer is yes. What do you think?

Hamsaka

It's more about being mindful of when you strive and grasp, knowing that it will not bring you that blessed Ultimate result. It will only get you a very successful business, enough money to provide a good life for your family and make contributions to a hopefully more stable future.

Having the uber successful business that provides wonderfully for your family will inevitably fall far short of the Ultimate result. It's the Ultimate result that seems embedded in our straining psyches, waving at us like the light at the end of the tunnel, that erroneously gets plopped onto the 'end result' of that successful business.

It's not that Buddhists don't strive and grasp for their worldly lives, it would defeat their every effort to feed their families much less themselves. It's that we KNOW it will never ever bring us the satisfaction we deeply yearn for.

This is just my take on it . . . Strive and grasp like mad (you seem to have to in this world) if what you want is a healthy income and plenty to spend on the current pleasures of worldly life. Just know it won't satisfy that embedded drive we all have for freedom from the dissatisfaction built into the system of life on Planet Earth What you gain from all the striving and grasping will not ever make you happy or satisfied.

Even when striving and grasping for Awakening . . . it seems necessary to get started, but after some time of serious practice, the process takes over, it apparently is a natural process built into the human system. Striving and grasping after Awakening, at least from my questionable understanding of those who've gone far beyond, becomes irrelevant.

Gassho

lobster

. . . I've learnt that a central tenant is that one should try to reduce our inclination to grasp, to control etc. . . .

. . . .

Does any one else wonder about this?

No.
I have no inclination to grasp at wondering . . .

Strong motivation is quite essential, nobody got to nirvana without motivation . . . for example the Buddha enterprise . . .

The qualities you have are very useful there is no reason why you can not be an enlightened successful entrepreneur. Steve Jobs never quite made it but then Apple was more important than his Buddhist practice . . . Priorities.

wangchuey

You can give %110 towards something and not have to grasp. Grasping is more of an "all in", blind faith type action I think.

pegembara

Drive and motivation is undeniably essential to achieve anything. But in the Buddhadhamma, the only way that leads to the end of suffering is the practice of the N8FP. The end of grasping is only reached at the very end of the Path. This only happens when the conditions are right. One cannot wish for the end of craving for that wish itself is a form of grasping - but it is a right type of grasping as opposed to the wrong type.

These four types of kamma have been understood, realized, and made known by me. Which four? There is kamma that is black with black result; kamma that is white with white result; kamma that is black and white with black and white result; and kamma that is neither black nor white with neither black nor white result, leading to the ending of kamma.

And what is kamma that is neither black nor white with neither black nor white result, leading to the ending of kamma? The intention right there to abandon this kamma that is black with black result, the intention right there to abandon this kamma that is white with white result, the intention right there to abandon this kamma that is black and white with black and white result. This is called kamma that is neither black nor white with neither black nor white result, leading to the ending of kamma.
A.IV.232

"Monks, I will teach you the Dhamma compared to a raft, for the purpose of crossing over, not for the purpose of holding onto. Listen & pay close attention. I will speak."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.022.than.html

DairyLama

bowsermail said:

...to keep at it and try again and again, and that tenacity is what helps me eventually succeed.

I think tenacity is essential for Buddhist practice.