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Who do we improve first?

lobsterlobster Veteran
edited January 2014 in Philosophy
You know right? Yourself.

Then you can calm mad elephants or boisterous unruly bully's (modernising things).
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhism/pbs2_unit06.htm

Great calm and peace is contagious. What generates this calm? Is it a myth or part of your experience?
Eventually is there a sense of improvement or goal? In other words do the goodies, baddies and other experiences and arisings become . . . 'what is that?' to coin a koan.

:wave:
jaeVastmindcvalue

Comments

  • jaejae Veteran
    @lobster...as the late Micheal Jackson said ...

    "Man In The Mirror"

    I'm Gonna Make A Change,
    For Once In My Life
    It's Gonna Feel Real Good,
    Gonna Make A Difference
    Gonna Make It Right . . .

    As I, Turn Up The Collar On My
    Favourite Winter Coat
    This Wind Is Blowin' My Mind
    I See The Kids In The Street,
    With Not Enough To Eat
    Who Am I, To Be Blind?
    Pretending Not To See
    Their Needs
    A Summer's Disregard,
    A Broken Bottle Top
    And A One Man's Soul
    They Follow Each Other On
    The Wind Ya' Know
    'Cause They Got Nowhere
    To Go
    That's Why I Want You To
    Know

    I'm Starting With The Man In
    The Mirror
    I'm Asking Him To Change
    His Ways
    And No Message Could Have
    Been Any Clearer
    If You Wanna Make The World
    A Better Place
    (If You Wanna Make The
    World A Better Place)
    Take A Look At Yourself, And
    Then Make A Change
    (Take A Look At Yourself, And
    Then Make A Change)
    (Na Na Na, Na Na Na, Na Na,
    Na Nah)

    I've Been A Victim Of A Selfish
    Kind Of Love
    It's Time That I Realize
    That There Are Some With No
    Home, Not A Nickel To Loan
    Could It Be Really Me,
    Pretending That They're Not
    Alone?

    A Widow Deeply Scarred,
    Somebody's Broken Heart
    And A Washed-Out Dream
    (Washed-Out Dream)
    They Follow The Pattern Of
    The Wind, Ya' See
    Cause They Got No Place
    To Be
    That's Why I'm Starting With
    Me
    (Starting With Me!)

    I'm Starting With The Man In
    The Mirror
    (Ooh!)
    I'm Asking Him To Change
    His Ways
    (Ooh!)
    And No Message Could Have
    Been Any Clearer
    If You Wanna Make The World
    A Better Place
    (If You Wanna Make The
    World A Better Place)
    Take A Look At Yourself And
    Then Make A Change
    (Take A Look At Yourself And
    Then Make A Change)

    etc etc......... (lots of shamone's nah nahs)

    Make That Change.

    Invincible_summer
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited January 2014
    ' improve' kemo sabe ?
    Zero
  • Improve.

    As the impediments fall away. The natural state becomes ever more 'present'. I find that is an improvement.

    You @citta for example no longer have a need to avoid my posts? That's an improvement.

    The word improve is not quite right but then that is the nature of words. Perhaps you can state it better?

    . . . and now back to the moon walking . . .

    :wave:
    Vastmind
  • Interesting. I see it differently of course. As the pun rate and need to shock reduced I began to feel that there was some point in trying to communicate with a human being rather than a Bumper Fun Book.
    If the natural state us an inprovement then it begs the question whether it is it an improvement, an improvement on what ? The unnatural state ?
  • If the natural state is an inprovement then it begs the question whether it is it an improvement, an improvement on what ? The unnatural state ?
    An improved being.
    Less need for improvement or preferred superficial behaviour. Less need to cling, less need to ask or answer questions.
    A reason to practice for our own and others well being. I would suggest that uncovering this gives us insight and awareness. No? Then there is nothing to improve . . .
    :wave:
  • I could split semantic hairs to reflect more accurately the Dzogchen view, but I am attempting to engage less with my inner pedant. So I will agree for the sake of this specific debate.
  • VastmindVastmind Memphis, TN Veteran
    edited January 2014
    I'm sure not trying to get worse...hahaha.
    Where are some more delusions? How many
    unskillful acts can I do this week? I think
    I'll leave the house this morning and just not
    pay attention or care....fuck it.

    Yeah, who the hell needs this 'improvement' shit?
    lolololol

    Here we go 'round the mulberry bush...

    I'm off to improve myself therefore will be
    able to improve others..(help them with their
    suffering)......

    BTW...
    Citta said:

    ' improve' kemo sabe ?

    Kemo sabe...??????
    Well....I guess you just say that to all the girls....

  • ZeroZero Veteran
    lobster said:


    The word improve is not quite right but then that is the nature of words.

    'Address' perhaps?
    Vastmindlobster
  • Citta said:

    I could split semantic hairs to reflect more accurately the Dzogchen view, but I am attempting to engage less with my inner pedant. So I will agree for the sake of this specific debate.

    Sounds like an improvement. ;)
  • fivebells said:

    Citta said:

    I could split semantic hairs to reflect more accurately the Dzogchen view, but I am attempting to engage less with my inner pedant. So I will agree for the sake of this specific debate.

    Sounds like an improvement. ;)
    Really ? Then I must try harder.
  • Sounds like a promising path to improvement. :)
  • Jolly good. All we need now is someone to walk it.
  • Maybe the I who is attempting to engage less with its inner pedant could. :lol:
  • That ' I' and the inner pedant are equally conventions lacking an unchanging self.
  • And yet, here you are, trying to improve them. Sounds like something needs improvement. What a bind.
  • Clearly I need to maintain the View more consistently. The View that sees everything as perfect just as it is.

  • Sounds like an improvement. :)
  • I am glad for you.
  • Clearly I need to maintain the View more consistently. The View that sees everything as perfect just as it is.
    Including imperfection, ignorance and perfection? Perfectly Nothing with Nowhere to go? I feel a perfect song coming on . . .



    What's that Tonto?

    Melting?

    :buck:
    Jeffrey
  • Clearly I need to maintain the View more consistently. The View that sees everything as perfect just as it is. %3
  • Where troubles melt like lemon drops that's where you will find me.

    (And empty appearing tea and beer)
    lobster
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited January 2014
    All of it. Arising in great emptiness and dissolving in great emptiness....and none of it happening with reference to my preferences.. Just as it is.
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    Citta said:

    Clearly I need to maintain the View more consistently. The View that sees everything as perfect just as it is.

    You still haven't told us what "the View" actually is.

  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited January 2014
    I can't .Neither can anyone else. You can however have it pointed out to you by someone able to do that. That's what thousands of us have done, and none of us can subsequently render it into words.
    taiyaki
  • Citta said:

    All of it. Arising in great emptiness and dissolving in great emptiness....and none of it happening with reference to my preferences.. Just as it is.

    That's as near as I can get with words.
    Jeffrey
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    It finally starts with love. To really love is to love without hope, unconditionally To open our hearts, to know our suffering we know the suffering of others and from such things compassion arises.
    Metta
    lobsterbetaboy
  • anandoanando Explorer
    Improve the contacts to the brahamic planes.

    sakko
  • It finally starts with love. To really love is to love without hope, unconditionally To open our hearts, to know our suffering we know the suffering of others and from such things compassion arises.
    Metta

    :clap:

    Now you are talking.

    Notice:
    not 'me', not 'gain insight', not 'improve' . . .

    No no.

    Give. What do I give . . .
    Metta?
    Metta!
    Come on you Metta Ray (Maitriya) . . .
    How do I unfold. What is the lotus opening? What are we awakening?

    :clap:


  • know our suffering [then] we know the suffering of others and from such things compassion arises.

    'know suffering of birth, aging, sickness, .......... ... , in short know suffering of five clinging aggregates'

    :)

  • Citta said:

    Citta said:

    All of it. Arising in great emptiness and dissolving in great emptiness....and none of it happening with reference to my preferences.. Just as it is.

    That's as near as I can get with words.
    I like that


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