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  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    This is no secret.... yes, Africa is colossal.

    And your point is....? :D

    Never tell people you're going to Africa on Holiday for a couple of weeks. it will take you nearly 10 years to go round its coastline, alone.....
  • BhikkhuJayasaraBhikkhuJayasara Bhikkhu Veteran
    edited January 2014
    This is quite interesting and im amazed and perhaps a little embarrased that a student of history like myself(who is certified to teach history up to 8th grade, thanks to my anthropology degree) has never heard of this other map. I knew africa was big, but i had no idea it was fit america china and India inside it big.
  • Jayantha said:

    This is quite interesting and im amazed and perhaps a little embarrased that a student of history like myself(who is certified to teach history up to 8th grade) has never heard of this other map. I knew africa was big, but i had no idea it was fit america china and India inside it big.

    Pretty much any map you look at will be inaccurate, there is a very good video on all kinds of maps and how they are inaccurate

    Hamsaka
  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
    I don't get it... What purpose is there in deceiving us about the size of Africa?
  • BhikkhuJayasaraBhikkhuJayasara Bhikkhu Veteran
    edited January 2014
    ourself said:

    I don't get it... What purpose is there in deceiving us about the size of Africa?

    I dont think its an intentional deception, more like a general not caring about updating maps or an assumption that the maps are accurate since you know we have satellites maps now as opposed to navigational ones.

    Even if you zoom out all the way on google maps it doesnt look different then traditional maps.

    Im not sure i buy into the whole socio-economic size inequality stuff they say in that clip, but max accuracy is always preferred.
  • The Persian empire is even more massive ........ oh wait, I just woke up! :p
    BhikkhuJayasara
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    It does seem pretty self serving that the powers that be, at the time of that map making, happen to present themselves so much larger than those perceived as being less powerful.
    Beej
  • Jayantha said:

    This is quite interesting and im amazed and perhaps a little embarrased that a student of history like myself(who is certified to teach history up to 8th grade) has never heard of this other map. I knew africa was big, but i had no idea it was fit america china and India inside it big.

    Pretty much any map you look at will be inaccurate, there is a very good video on all kinds of maps and how they are inaccurate

    I posted on FB and an old friend who had a degree in urban planning told us all about maps.
  • ourself said:

    I don't get it... What purpose is there in deceiving us about the size of Africa?

    It's just a limitation of putting a three dimensional globe on a 2D paper.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Jeffrey said:


    It's just a limitation of putting a three dimensional globe on a 2D paper.

    Exactly true, Jeffrey. This concept was a field of study when I was a geography minor.

  • And I am surprised at the criticism of posting this. It is in general banter. The point is that it is surprising. Or at least it was to me.
    Tosh
  • DandelionDandelion London Veteran
    Jayantha said:

    This is quite interesting and im amazed and perhaps a little embarrased that a student of history like myself(who is certified to teach history up to 8th grade, thanks to my anthropology degree) has never heard of this other map. I knew africa was big, but i had no idea it was fit america china and India inside it big.

    I didn't know Africa was SO big that America, China and India would fit inside, either!

    Well, now I do :)

    Thanks for posting @Jeffrey - my pretty dire general knowledge has just improved ever so slightly :D


  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    betaboy said:

    The Persian empire is even more massive ........ oh wait, I just woke up! :p

    Sadly, Persia no longer exists, other than being mentioned in fables and History books....

    It's Iran, and has been long before you were even a twinkle in your daddy's eye..... (1935).

    In fact, Iran was its original historic name.....

    Wear that name with pride, @betaboy....

    :)
    Invincible_summer
  • Jeffrey said:

    And I am surprised at the criticism of posting this. It is in general banter. The point is that it is surprising. Or at least it was to me.

    Nono I find it somewhat intriguing and as in the video that you reminded me of that I posted, it states that the entire US, plus India and much of Europe can fit inside Africa, yet look at most maps of any kind and it shows a different story. Don't get hung up on what people make of your posts, I stopped that ages ago :P
  • BeejBeej Human Being Veteran
    ourself said:

    I don't get it... What purpose is there in deceiving us about the size of Africa?

    the purpose was western propoganda. it is done to appeal to the folks that think that size does matter. if you are setting out to conquer the world, its a lot easier to go after it if you think that the land mass you are invading is small and inqonsequential. pure psychological propoganda.

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_projection

    Suggest you read this about map distortion.
  • BeejBeej Human Being Veteran
    edited January 2014
    why not distort it in the oppisite way? a choice was made to portray it in that way. a human choice. a motivated choice. maps are created by people, are they not?
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Clearly you didn't read the entry.
  • BeejBeej Human Being Veteran
    no, i did. and i've also taken geography classes in college as part of my history major. but, learning doesn't stop when college is over. if i felt satisfied with information shoveled to me by my university i guess i wouldn't bother taking the human element into account, but i was not satisfied. you realize that whatever you learned in college is simply the prevailing and sanctioned zeitgeist of the moment, and not some static record that is never to be questioned, right?
    TheswingisyellowBhikkhuJayasarahow
  • federica said:

    betaboy said:

    The Persian empire is even more massive ........ oh wait, I just woke up! :p

    Sadly, Persia no longer exists, other than being mentioned in fables and History books....

    It's Iran, and has been long before you were even a twinkle in your daddy's eye..... (1935).

    In fact, Iran was its original historic name.....

    Wear that name with pride, @betaboy....

    :)
    No thanks, I'd rather have a root canal, lol.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    no, i did. and i've also taken geography classes in college as part of my history major. but, learning doesn't stop when college is over. if i felt satisfied with information shoveled to me by my university i guess i wouldn't bother taking the human element into account, but i was not satisfied. you realize that whatever you learned in college is simply the prevailing and sanctioned zeitgeist of the moment, and not some static record that is never to be questioned, right?

    So you think that over hundreds of years as primitive map makers put together maps of the world they belonged to a secret society that banded them all together with the motto of "Let's make Black Africa small on the map"?

    ThailandTomBhikkhuJayasara
  • This seems legit to me
    vinlynTosh
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Tom, you know perfectly well that your main island could easily fit inside of Ireland. It's a conspiracy! You hate Irish people!

    P.S. -- hope all is calm for you in Hua Hin.
    ThailandTom
  • lol well I have nothing against the Irish but I do think that England could easily fit into that huge land mass full of leprechauns and their pots of gold.

    Everything is a-ok here in HH, as always. I have just heard though that there has been a bomb blast at Victory monument in BK where 4 people are critically injured, protesters saw a guy throwing bombs and they tried to apprehend him but were shot at... Kind of sketchy details at the moment as it has not long taken place. Things are getting worse in BK and I think they will continue to do so for this month at least
  • BeejBeej Human Being Veteran
    vinlyn said:

    no, i did. and i've also taken geography classes in college as part of my history major. but, learimagening doesn't stop when college is over. if i felt satisfied with information shoveled to me by my university i guess i wouldn't bother taking the human element into account, but i was not satisfied. you realize that whatever you learned in college is simply the prevailing and sanctioned zeitgeist of the moment, and not some static record that is never to be questioned, right?

    So you think that over hundreds of years as primitive map makers put together maps of the world they belonged to a secret society that banded them all together with the motto of "Let's make Black Africa small on the map"?

    theres a difference between primitive map makers and modern day map makers. primitive map makers were using
    different methods to create maps. in many cases, older maps are wrong because they use stars coupled wiith time spent sailing and observation under exteme conditions to create the map. they didnt always factor in gulf streams, currents, tides, wind, etc and in many cases primitive maps were born of one single voyage, not a compilation of many voyages which could varrify/check and balance the measurements. human error at play. fast forward a few centuries, and the data is compiled more accurately, yet map stll show vast inconsistencies in the scale of lands and sea? then add satelite data and the map still looks like this? at some point, people became aware of these inconsistencies and still the old maps pesrsisted? even today, in classrooms all over, still these maps are wrong. hmmmmmmm.......

    its not just an west vs east thing. its a north vs south thing. hegemony dictates all types of hierarchal thinking: 4 places which are great examples of the north thinking that they are better than their national southern couterparts are: United States of America, India, Egypt, and Italy, and i bet this happens all over the place. a lot of times, this belief is perpetuated in official state behavior. you can look that stuff up if you need wikipedia to approve it. but if this happens in places where there is more of a cultural/racial continuity, why wouldnt it happen where the culture and racial make up are on different poles? Well, it does happen.

    Who was the biggest commercial trading corporation of the 17th century? the Dutch. who were they trying to impress with their new territories? the answer is: everyone. they wanted to impress everyone with their gains, so they exagerated their value by portraying land masses as larger. the spanish did this too. same for the English. it wasnt just about creating a superiority complex, it was about money, too.

    Greenland is as big as Africa because the trasfer of data from a sphere to a plane dictates this as such? ummmmm, no. the Danes were also competing for a piece of that new world and they ended up with a largely uninhabittable land mass with hardly any exploitable resources. kingdoms are the most insecure entities and try to compensate by exagerating their power and wealth.

    my penninsula is bigger than yours. :lol:
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    betaboy said:

    federica said:

    betaboy said:

    The Persian empire is even more massive ........ oh wait, I just woke up! :p

    Sadly, Persia no longer exists, other than being mentioned in fables and History books....

    It's Iran, and has been long before you were even a twinkle in your daddy's eye..... (1935).

    In fact, Iran was its original historic name.....

    Wear that name with pride, @betaboy....

    :)
    No thanks, I'd rather have a root canal, lol.
    Does that imply you're ashamed to be considered Iranian....?
    That's a great pity....

  • federica said:

    betaboy said:

    federica said:

    betaboy said:

    The Persian empire is even more massive ........ oh wait, I just woke up! :p

    Sadly, Persia no longer exists, other than being mentioned in fables and History books....

    It's Iran, and has been long before you were even a twinkle in your daddy's eye..... (1935).

    In fact, Iran was its original historic name.....

    Wear that name with pride, @betaboy....

    :)
    No thanks, I'd rather have a root canal, lol.
    Does that imply you're ashamed to be considered Iranian....?
    That's a great pity....

    I am not ashamed, I am not proud. I am what I am. I thought as Buddhists, we were supposed to 'transcend' such labels and trifles?
  • betaboy said:

    federica said:

    betaboy said:

    federica said:

    betaboy said:

    The Persian empire is even more massive ........ oh wait, I just woke up! :p

    Sadly, Persia no longer exists, other than being mentioned in fables and History books....

    It's Iran, and has been long before you were even a twinkle in your daddy's eye..... (1935).

    In fact, Iran was its original historic name.....

    Wear that name with pride, @betaboy....

    :)
    No thanks, I'd rather have a root canal, lol.
    Does that imply you're ashamed to be considered Iranian....?
    That's a great pity....

    I am not ashamed, I am not proud. I am what I am. I thought as Buddhists, we were supposed to 'transcend' such labels and trifles?
    I agree with you there Beta, labels are only useful in a worldly sense and situation, but I think Federica may have been a little sarcastic, then again I could be wrong
  • BeejBeej Human Being Veteran
    vinlyn said:

    no, i did. and i've also taken geography classes in college as part of my history major. but, learning doesn't stop when college is over. if i felt satisfied with information shoveled to me by my university i guess i wouldn't bother taking the human element into account, but i was not satisfied. you realize that whatever you learned in college is simply the prevailing and sanctioned zeitgeist of the moment, and not some static record that is never to be questioned, right?

    So you think that over hundreds of years as primitive map makers put together maps of the world they belonged to a secret society that banded them all together with the motto of "Let's make Black Africa small on the map"?

    in addition: its ineresting how you equate the word "propoganda" with conspiracy theories. maybe its time you redefine your understandig of that word. more so, if you read what i wrote you'll see that i used the term to reflect a "west on west" version of propoganda. this means that this type of propoganda was used at home, not necesarilly abroad. you know, like how the U.S. used propoganda posters in WW2 on their own people to create nationalistic pride and fear? yeah, so implying that it is western propoganda doesnt mean that it was a weapon against another hemisphere.

    and i never mentioned secret societies, so is this what you "hear" when anybody challenges the status quo? :scratch:
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    betaboy said:



    I am not ashamed, I am not proud. I am what I am. I thought as Buddhists, we were supposed to 'transcend' such labels and trifles?

    I'm just curious why you think that. Is there some place in the scriptures where Buddha said people should not identify with where they are from?

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran



    in addition: its ineresting how you equate the word "propoganda" with conspiracy theories. maybe its time you redefine your understandig of that word. more so, if you read what i wrote you'll see that i used the term to reflect a "west on west" version of propoganda. this means that this type of propoganda was used at home, not necesarilly abroad. you know, like how the U.S. used propoganda posters in WW2 on their own people to create nationalistic pride and fear? yeah, so implying that it is western propoganda doesnt mean that it was a weapon against another hemisphere.

    and i never mentioned secret societies, so is this what you "hear" when anybody challenges the status quo? :scratch:

    I'm sorry, I just don't agree with your viewpoint. Period. And I am not required to.

    And I have no more put words in your mouth, than you have just put words in mine.



    Beej
  • vinlyn said:

    betaboy said:



    I am not ashamed, I am not proud. I am what I am. I thought as Buddhists, we were supposed to 'transcend' such labels and trifles?

    I'm just curious why you think that. Is there some place in the scriptures where Buddha said people should not identify with where they are from?

    Not in so many words, but it is understood.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    That's too vague an answer to have specific credibility.
    federicaChaz
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    betaboy said:

    federica said:

    betaboy said:

    federica said:

    betaboy said:

    The Persian empire is even more massive ........ oh wait, I just woke up! :p

    Sadly, Persia no longer exists, other than being mentioned in fables and History books....

    It's Iran, and has been long before you were even a twinkle in your daddy's eye..... (1935).

    In fact, Iran was its original historic name.....

    Wear that name with pride, @betaboy....

    :)
    No thanks, I'd rather have a root canal, lol.
    Does that imply you're ashamed to be considered Iranian....?
    That's a great pity....

    I am not ashamed, I am not proud. I am what I am. I thought as Buddhists, we were supposed to 'transcend' such labels and trifles?
    You thought wrong. Would you care to point out where you found that little Gem? The Buddha himself is often referred to as 'Sakyamuni Buddha' , that is, The 'awakened one from the Sakya Tribe'.... So it doesnt necessarily follow....

    Pride, however, does lead to suffering.... ;)


    I agree with you there Beta, labels are only useful in a worldly sense and situation, but I think Federica may have been a little sarcastic, then again I could be wrong

    You're wrong.
    Why would I be sarcastic? I myself am Trilingual in Italian, English and French, and have lived extensively in all three countries; countries with a rich, varied, chequered and multi-faceted history.

    Why would I be sarcastic? :scratch:
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran



    I agree with you there Beta, labels are only useful in a worldly sense and situation, but I think Federica may have been a little sarcastic, then again I could be wrong

    And, since we live in the world, it seems natural that we look at things "in a worldly sense and situation".

  • vinlyn said:



    I agree with you there Beta, labels are only useful in a worldly sense and situation, but I think Federica may have been a little sarcastic, then again I could be wrong

    And, since we live in the world, it seems natural that we look at things "in a worldly sense and situation".

    For practicality's sake, yes, you're right: we need these labels. But is emotional investment really necessary? I mean, people becoming proud about something over which they had no control. I can understand a person feeling proud over an achievement, but over taking birth in a certain place????? That makes little sense to me.
    robot
  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
    betaboy said:

    vinlyn said:



    I agree with you there Beta, labels are only useful in a worldly sense and situation, but I think Federica may have been a little sarcastic, then again I could be wrong

    And, since we live in the world, it seems natural that we look at things "in a worldly sense and situation".

    For practicality's sake, yes, you're right: we need these labels. But is emotional investment really necessary? I mean, people becoming proud about something over which they had no control. I can understand a person feeling proud over an achievement, but over taking birth in a certain place????? That makes little sense to me.
    This makes sense but Federica was talking about your labelling yourself as Persian rather than Iranian. This seems to imply a preference for one over the other.

    I totally understand what you're saying about national pride however. It's a complete joke except in cases of immigration. I may consider myself lucky to have been born in Canada but I'm not proud to be Canadian and see past the imaginary lines in the sand.
  • Take pride in whatever you want. If you want to call yourself persian then that is fine.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    betaboy said:


    For practicality's sake, yes, you're right: we need these labels. But is emotional investment really necessary? I mean, people becoming proud about something over which they had no control. I can understand a person feeling proud over an achievement, but over taking birth in a certain place????? That makes little sense to me.

    Put in that precise context, I agree with you.

    I could care less that I am Irish. I know nothing about Ireland or being Irish.

    Now, were you born in Iran/Persia? If so, that does -- in my view -- put a different light on it.

  • vinlyn said:

    betaboy said:


    For practicality's sake, yes, you're right: we need these labels. But is emotional investment really necessary? I mean, people becoming proud about something over which they had no control. I can understand a person feeling proud over an achievement, but over taking birth in a certain place????? That makes little sense to me.

    Put in that precise context, I agree with you.

    I could care less that I am Irish. I know nothing about Ireland or being Irish.

    Now, were you born in Iran/Persia? If so, that does -- in my view -- put a different light on it.

    Out of curiosity have you not made the most of the new law in Colorado yet Vinlyn and gotten totally baked?
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran


    Out of curiosity have you not made the most of the new law in Colorado yet Vinlyn and gotten totally baked?

    No Tom. Sorry, I'm not into that.

  • vinlyn said:


    Out of curiosity have you not made the most of the new law in Colorado yet Vinlyn and gotten totally baked?

    No Tom. Sorry, I'm not into that.

    I was being sarcastic and just playing around, I know you aren't :p
    This makes sense but Federica was talking about your labelling yourself as Persian rather than Iranian. This seems to imply a preference for one over the other.

    I totally understand what you're saying about national pride however. It's a complete joke except in cases of immigration. I may consider myself lucky to have been born in Canada but I'm not proud to be Canadian and see past the imaginary lines in the sand.
    I am in the same boat as @ourself on this one, apart from those imaginary lines are in different places for me than Canada.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Trust me Tom, I have my vices.
  • I found this video startling, even though I have known about projection errors for a very long time. Generally explanations of these errors describe the inappropriate expansion of Greenland. Sometimes its Russia. But I have never before seen the concomitant minimization of the paraequatorial masses discussed in this way. What a great little snippet.
    Thanks
  • betaboybetaboy Veteran
    edited January 2014
    ourself said:

    betaboy said:

    vinlyn said:



    I agree with you there Beta, labels are only useful in a worldly sense and situation, but I think Federica may have been a little sarcastic, then again I could be wrong

    And, since we live in the world, it seems natural that we look at things "in a worldly sense and situation".

    For practicality's sake, yes, you're right: we need these labels. But is emotional investment really necessary? I mean, people becoming proud about something over which they had no control. I can understand a person feeling proud over an achievement, but over taking birth in a certain place????? That makes little sense to me.
    This makes sense but Federica was talking about your labelling yourself as Persian rather than Iranian. This seems to imply a preference for one over the other.

    I totally understand what you're saying about national pride however. It's a complete joke except in cases of immigration. I may consider myself lucky to have been born in Canada but I'm not proud to be Canadian and see past the imaginary lines in the sand.
    I wasn't born or brought up in Iran, never been there, not a citizen of Iran - so calling myself Iranian would make little sense. Persian, otoh, stays clear of such confusion, cuz it refers to ethnic origin rather than country of birth. Both labels suck, I get that, but at least one of them avoids confusion.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Fair enough, Betaboy!
  • Steve_B said:

    I found this video startling, even though I have known about projection errors for a very long time. Generally explanations of these errors describe the inappropriate expansion of Greenland. Sometimes its Russia. But I have never before seen the concomitant minimization of the paraequatorial masses discussed in this way. What a great little snippet.
    Thanks

    I know it blew me away a bit as well, that Youtube channel is amazing though, there are 3 'vsauce' channels each dedicated to something different, and each one has a different presenter. That one with the maps video is very good and goes into great details about interesting subjects, I suggest you check it out.
    http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6nSFpj9HTCZ5t-N3Rm3-HA
    Trust me Tom, I have my vices.
    Go on, I am all ears :D
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    I don't have an ear fetish! :lol:
    ThailandTom
  • betaboy said:

    ourself said:

    betaboy said:

    vinlyn said:



    I agree with you there Beta, labels are only useful in a worldly sense and situation, but I think Federica may have been a little sarcastic, then again I could be wrong

    And, since we live in the world, it seems natural that we look at things "in a worldly sense and situation".

    For practicality's sake, yes, you're right: we need these labels. But is emotional investment really necessary? I mean, people becoming proud about something over which they had no control. I can understand a person feeling proud over an achievement, but over taking birth in a certain place????? That makes little sense to me.
    This makes sense but Federica was talking about your labelling yourself as Persian rather than Iranian. This seems to imply a preference for one over the other.

    I totally understand what you're saying about national pride however. It's a complete joke except in cases of immigration. I may consider myself lucky to have been born in Canada but I'm not proud to be Canadian and see past the imaginary lines in the sand.
    I wasn't born or brought up in Iran, never been there, not a citizen of Iran - so calling myself Iranian would make little sense. Persian, otoh, stays clear of such confusion, cuz it refers to ethnic origin rather than country of birth. Both labels suck, I get that, but at least one of them avoids confusion.
    It's one of my sincerest hopes in my lifetime that Iran becomes a free nation. I wouldn't mind seeing them return to the name Persia either. The country could use fewer Mullahs and more Cyrus the Greats.
  • betaboy said:

    ourself said:

    betaboy said:

    vinlyn said:



    I agree with you there Beta, labels are only useful in a worldly sense and situation, but I think Federica may have been a little sarcastic, then again I could be wrong

    And, since we live in the world, it seems natural that we look at things "in a worldly sense and situation".

    For practicality's sake, yes, you're right: we need these labels. But is emotional investment really necessary? I mean, people becoming proud about something over which they had no control. I can understand a person feeling proud over an achievement, but over taking birth in a certain place????? That makes little sense to me.
    This makes sense but Federica was talking about your labelling yourself as Persian rather than Iranian. This seems to imply a preference for one over the other.

    I totally understand what you're saying about national pride however. It's a complete joke except in cases of immigration. I may consider myself lucky to have been born in Canada but I'm not proud to be Canadian and see past the imaginary lines in the sand.
    I wasn't born or brought up in Iran, never been there, not a citizen of Iran - so calling myself Iranian would make little sense. Persian, otoh, stays clear of such confusion, cuz it refers to ethnic origin rather than country of birth. Both labels suck, I get that, but at least one of them avoids confusion.
    It's one of my sincerest hopes in my lifetime that Iran becomes a free nation. I wouldn't mind seeing them return to the name Persia either. The country could use fewer Mullahs and more Cyrus the Greats.
    I would like to see humanity become civilized.
    federica
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