Theistic Non-Theism? Or Non-Theistic Theism, if you will?

DaftChris

So, I have a question that's been on my mind for a while: is there a word or concept for someone who is somewhere between Theism and Non-theism? Or identifies as neither?

I'm not a Non-Theist. I do believe that there is something greater than ourselves. Whether you want to call this something a "ground of being", 'life force", "God", or "universal consciousness" is up to the individual.

Likewise, however, even though I'm not a Non-Theist, I'm not sure if saying that I'm a Theist is 100% correct either. Granted, I don't think this higher power/life force/etc., is a personal entity that grants prayers and performs miracles, but I also am not sure if it is a creator deity either. Ever since I've gained a better ground in understanding theology, I've come to view God as akin to Brahman and the Tao. As a force which permeates all existence, an infinite reality in which all things originate, and where the laws of how the natural world and universe work come from.

So, even though I believe there is something greater than us, and believe it to be a part of our existence, but don't necessarily believe/am unsure that it is the creator of the universe itself, is such a thing "God"?

Your thoughts?

Frozen_Paratrooper

Sounds more like pantheism. Where God is simply everything. In that case, since the fact that everything in the universe exists, isn't it a moot point? I'm an atheist, so I just don't think there is any "life force" that permeates everything or any higher supernatural intelligence.

David

Again, it all depends on how the individual defines God and whether or not the universe needs a beginning.

The closest thing to God I can conceive of is the universe itself in the process of self realization, not unlike your blend of Brahman and the Tao.

If you haven't read it before, I urge you to read the poem by Thich Nhat Hanh called "Call me by my True Names" as I think it really embodies a good Buddhist spin on God.

Daiva

I like the sound of non-theistic theism. I believe along the same lines, and the closest definition for me, of this "pure/universal consciousness" is Advaita Vedanta philosophy.
In my opinion, it fits in with Buddhist philosophy and my Buddhist practice.
"According to Advaita metaphysics, Brahman—the ultimate, transcendent and immanent God of the latter Vedas—appears as the world because of its creative energy (māyā). The world has no separate existence apart from Brahman. The experiencing self (jīva) and the transcendental self of the Universe (ātman) are in reality identical (both are Brahman), though the individual self seems different as space within a container seems different from space as such."
http://www.iep.utm.edu/adv-veda/

Also see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advaita_Vedanta
http://www.vedantaadvaita.org/AdvaitaVedanta_2.htm

federica

I'd like to know whether there is a word for someone who really couldn't care less whether God exists or not, because the point is not capable of being proven either way, so debate/discussion is pointless.....

That would be me.....

As a wise man once said:

"It little matters whether Heaven (God, whatever) exists or not;
The important thing is to live as if it did."

lobster

federica said:

I'd like to know whether there is a word for someone who really couldn't care less whether God exists or not, because the point is not capable of being proven either way, so debate/discussion is pointless.....

That would be me.....

Aren't they called Buddhists?
:buck:

Hope the Flying Speghetthi Monster is not listening. I could get noodled . . .

and now back to the pointless . . .

DairyLama

federica said:

I'd like to know whether there is a word for someone who really couldn't care less whether God exists or not, because the point is not capable of being proven either way, so debate/discussion is pointless.....

That would be me.....

I'm not sure, but I think probably "don't care" would be included in non-theist.

federica

No, because there may well be a God.
I just don't see the point in arguing about it because one, it's pointless, and two, it really doesn't matter....

David

federica said:

I'd like to know whether there is a word for someone who really couldn't care less whether God exists or not, because the point is not capable of being proven either way, so debate/discussion is pointless.....

That would be me.....

As a wise man once said:

"It little matters whether Heaven (God, whatever) exists or not;
The important thing is to live as if it did."

I'm guessing agnostic.

I don't see the discussion as pointless even as I don't really care either way.

It's good excercise and it's fun.

Jainarayan

ourself said:

The closest thing to God I can conceive of is the universe itself in the process of self realization, not unlike your blend of Brahman and the Tao.

This is pretty much my belief. I think the point where theism meets non-theism might be deism. I consider myself a deist. I don't think the universe or existence had a beginning, it probably always was. So, there is no creator God to get in the way of Buddhist belief, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that something is the substrate for what we see and experience, and emanates from. In that case I think Brahman or Tao fits nicely.

DairyLama

federica said:

No, because there may well be a God.
I just don't see the point in arguing about it because one, it's pointless, and two, it really doesn't matter....

Non-theist includes agnostic.

robot

federica said:

No, because there may well be a God.
I just don't see the point in arguing about it because one, it's pointless, and two, it really doesn't matter....

It doesn't seem like an arguement to me.

federica

Let me reiterate: I really don't care whether God exists or not. It's not something I ever waste time pondering.

If he does?
Great.
If he doesn't?
Great.

Either way.... so what?

I'm not theistic, non-theistic, agnostic or any other 'stic' (not even to beat you all round the head with! )

I really don't give it any thought because it is of absolutely no consequence to me either way.

vinlyn

Which is fine.

But the same could be said for tons of concepts in Buddhism, as well.

cvalue

God or no God! The main thing is to practice "let go" very well so there are no regrets at the end of life. When the moment of death is about to come, one should be able to accept it and let go of this body. Most people are very frightened or deeply regret and struggle in vain on their deathbed. They refuse to leave this world and disappear into nothing.

vinlyn

cvalue said:

God or no God! The main thing is to practice "let go" very well so there are no regrets at the end of life. When the moment of death is about to come, one should be able to accept it and let go of this body. Most people are very frightened or deeply regret and struggle in vain on their deathbed. They refuse to leave this world and disappear into nothing.

While which in vain seems rather logical.

David

vinlyn said:

Which is fine.

But the same could be said for tons of concepts in Buddhism, as well.

Pretty much.

Are we reborn? Who cares? It doesn't affect my life.
Is there a self? Who cares? Somebody has to live the life.

Whether or not there is (G)god(s) may not change anything for some of us but for others it could change our relationship with everything.

If the truth were known in any regard it would still give rise to more questions and it would still leave me fascinated.

We don't even know what the full ramifications would be if we objectively discovered a supreme/eternal manner of being so it's kind of glub to dismiss it as if it wouldn't have an effect or help with our suffering.

Who knows? Maybe we will never know but we don't know that we will never know.

I don't see anything wrong with talking about the possiblities as long as we don't clutch at them.

@Federica;

It's a wise saying but to live as if there is a heaven/God is to have a concept of heaven and/or God.

federica

vinlyn said:

Which is fine.

But the same could be said for tons of concepts in Buddhism, as well.

The difference is that I am more interested in those....

ourself said:

It's a wise saying but to live as if there is a heaven/God is to have a concept of heaven and/or God.

No, I don't think so. Not necessarily....
It's just a way of saying live your life Mindfully and skillfully.

That's how I take it.

DairyLama

federica said:

I'm not theistic, non-theistic, agnostic or any other 'stic' (not even to beat you all round the head with! )

Aw, please let me stick you in a box!