Learning suttas and scriptures

Jainarayan

This is inspired by @Glow's thread What Are Your Favorite Sutta Excerpts? It's a no-brainer for me that I know very, very little of the suttas. I understand that it's only recently I've begun practice, so I can't absorb everything at once. But I am blown away by how much other people know of scriptures, and where to find excerpts, teachings, passages. Maybe I can say the same thing for Christian and some Hindu texts, having been more exposed to them most of my life.

To that end, where is a good place to start? I have The Dhammapada (Eknath Easwaran's version), Jack Kornfield's The Teachings of The Buddha and Thich Nhat Hanh's The Heart of The Buddha's Teachings. Are those good places to start, and are there other recommendations?

DairyLama

This is a good resource site for Theravada suttas: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ - the search function at top right is very useful. There are others sites with a more comprehensive selection of suttas but that's the one I normally use.
There are similar resource sites for Mahayana sutras, but I haven't used any recently - maybe other members could make suggestions?

"What the Buddha taught" by Rahula is a good introduction to Theravada Buddhism.

anataman

Where you feel most comfortable? The cushion...

These all are good places to start, but you need to have developed some kind of meditation practice. I like to listen to someone giving a dharma talk, and if they mention a sutra- I might read it or part of it and then meditate on it using their insight to guide me, and then personal insight comes with the meditation.

With the internet there are many places which offer translations - it all here somewhere:

http://www.buddhanet.net
http://www.buddhistelibrary.org/en/index.php?lang=english

Chaz

SpinyNorman said:

"What the Buddha taught" by Rahula is a good introduction to Theravada Buddhism.

Any kind of Buddhism actually.

And the suttas aren't exlusivly Theravedin. All the traditions translate and teach from them.

BhikkhuJayasara

SpinyNorman said:

This is a good rush ource site for Theravada suttas: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ - the search function at top right is very useful. There are others sites with a more comprehensive selection of suttas but that's the one I normally use.
There are similar resource sites for Mahayana sutras, but I haven't used any recently - maybe other members could make suggestions?

"What the Buddha taught" by Rahula is a good introduction to Theravada Buddhism.

Spiney has good advice. On accesstoinsight they have a section befriending the suttas

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/befriending.html

Also Bhikkhu Bodhi has a great book that puts together certaib suttas by topic and he explains a lot so it's easy to understand.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0861714911?cache=1390839708&pi=SY200_QL40#ref=mp_s_a_1_1


There is also a sutta of the day website/app

http://www.pariyatti.org/ResourcesProjects/News/tabid/125/Default.aspx

As for my own advice, take it slow. The suttas are very repetitive and a hard read for beginners. There will be sections that call out to you and those that wont. The suttas are there simply as a guide to your practice.

Jainarayan

Great, thanks everyone. I'll check out the links.

I look at accesstoinsight when a specific link is given here but I haven't gone through the whole site.

I was probably thinking too much about specific printed material instead of searching what's on the web.

Chaz

On

Jainarayan said:

Great, thanks everyone. I'll check out the links.

I look at accesstoinsight when a specific link is given here but I haven't gone through the whole site.

I was probably thinking too much about specific printed material instead of searching what's on the web.

Something you should consider as well is some commentary. Reading sutta is great, but its also good to consider what learned scholars and teachers have to say. This will give you a better and broader view of meaning. Don't limit yourself.

Jainarayan

Chaz said:

Something you should consider as well is some commentary. Reading sutta is great, but its also good to consider what learned scholars and teachers have to say. This will give you a better and broader view of meaning. Don't limit yourself.

For sure. The commentaries and highlights are usually a lot easier to get the spirit of the sutta, or any scripture. Verse by verse is good to have, but sometimes it makes my eyes glaze over. That's why I mentioned Thich Nhat Hanh's The Heart of The Buddha's Teachings as one example.

DairyLama

Chaz said:

And the suttas aren't exlusivly Theravedin. All the traditions translate and teach from them.

Yes, OK, but don't forget to pay us the royalties.

fivebells

My biggest jump in sutta knowledge came from reading Wings to Awakening, which is a detailed overview of the theory behind the practice, based on extensive reference to the suttas. I highly recommend it.

matthewmartin

I was enlightened to read a comment on the Avatamsaka Suttra- the correct way to read it is to sit down and let the words wash over you like you're in a trance. Lots of mahayana sutras seem like they should be read this way. If your expectation is something as readable as a newspaper, Mahayana sutras feel like unedited, train wrecks.

Something that is readable are the sutras that cover rules-- Brahma Net Sutra, Sutra of the Upasaka Precepts, (but not so much the vinaya unless you really are a homeless beggar)-- these entail lots of rules that may or may not be practices worth practicing. As a software developer, these rule systems speak to me in a way that flowery bull$#!+ doesn't. It's a personality thing.

And commentaries. I liked the commentaries by Donald Lopez in "Buddhist Scriptures" better than I like the suttras he was commenting on.

And someday I hope to read the translations of the Tantras, mostly because of all the warnings about how dangerous it is to do so without a guru. Maybe that was the point behind the warnings?

anando

Hello,
don´t learn suttas, do the Eightfold Path and with the 8 Jhanas you have a measurement in how far your´re davanced. Don´t hessitate, start right now, make this life your very last one.

anando

DairyLama

fivebells said:

My biggest jump in sutta knowledge came from reading Wings to Awakening, which is a detailed overview of the theory behind the practice, based on extensive reference to the suttas. I highly recommend it.

I started to read it but found it very heavy going. Maybe I'll have another go.

DairyLama

anando said:

Hello,
don´t learn suttas...

No, do learn them.

robot

anando said:

Hello,
don´t learn suttas, do the Eightfold Path and with the 8 Jhanas you have a measurement in how far your´re davanced. Don´t hessitate, start right now, make this life your very last one.

anando

Do use English autocorrect skilfully.

fivebells

SpinyNorman said:

fivebells said:

My biggest jump in sutta knowledge came from reading Wings to Awakening, which is a detailed overview of the theory behind the practice, based on extensive reference to the suttas. I highly recommend it.

I started to read it but found it very heavy going. Maybe I'll have another go.

Yes, it is a very complex document, but I think the complexity is irreducible and intrinsic to the practice (or at least to the obstacles to the practice), and getting your head around it really pays off.

radagast

I like Buddha's last teaching. To paraphrase, he said .. do not believe anything just because it is in some revered text .. and do not believe anything just because some revered teacher said it .. be a lamp unto your own feet .. work out your own salvation with diligence.

Having said that, I will admit to be very fond of the Diamond Sutra, and the Heart Sutra. But of course, what is really important is seeing into the true nature of self.

Glow

I second the Access to Insight links as well as Bhikkhu Bodhi's book.

The scholar Rupert Gethin (and president of the Pali Text Society) recommends reading the suttas out loud a few times. I find that it's easy to lose the overall structure of the suttas (which are, indeed, long, arcane, and repetitive) when reading them silently. They were originally composed orally, meant to be chanted. Reading them out loud can help punctuate the most important thrust of the teaching. It can also help to play around with tone and mood of a sutta. Some are humorous, others somber, others sarcastic, and others beautifully poetic. Reading them out loud can bring this aspect to life, as opposed to some flat words sitting on the screen/page.

I would actually avoid Eknath Easwaran's translation of the Dhammapada. It's a very loose translation that often distorts the original text so that it is more compatible with Christianity and (particularly) Advaita Vedanta. I don't find anything wrong with finding commonalities between various religious traditions (in fact, I encourage it), but it's important to honor the spirit of each individual philosophy and accurately represent their teachings. I don't think Easwaran really understood Buddhism, though his translation of the Gita (a Hindu text) is among the best. A good alternative for the Dhammapada is Gil Fronsdal's version, or either of the two translation that can be found here.

DairyLama

radagast said:

I like Buddha's last teaching. To paraphrase, he said .. do not believe anything just because it is in some revered text .. and do not believe anything just because some revered teacher said it .. be a lamp unto your own feet .. work out your own salvation with diligence.

No that's the Kalama Sutta. The Buddha's last words were "Alas, all formations are impermanent. With mindfulness, strive on."

Yorkshireman

I agree with the OP that reading commentaries on the suttas is well worth the effort. I find that on many occasions there's a depth that I had totally missed. Even though I might think I totally understand what is being said, I often find I was only 50% or less of the way there. Maybe meditation would lift me another 30% - at that too is essential IMHO - but the advice of someone who knows a LOT more than me has proofed to be very fruitful.

BhikkhuJayasara

Im a bit different with the commentaries. I pretty much stuck with just the 4 Nikayas, the sutta nipatta and dhammapada. Then I found many teachers(Ajahn Brahm, Bhante G) who basically teach not to put much stock in the commentaries and abidhamma etc, only go with what is considered the oldest teachings, closest to the buddha.

sometimes I feel like just for my own edification i should read the commentaries and abidhamma then I just find little use for them or desire to continue reading.

fivebells

I agree, Jayantha. I'm much more skeptical about the commentaries.

DairyLama

fivebells said:

I agree, Jayantha. I'm much more skeptical about the commentaries.

Including the contemporary ones?

fivebells

There's obviously one set of modern commentaries I've become a bit of a true believer about.

Jainarayan

Glow said:

I would actually avoid Eknath Easwaran's translation of the Dhammapada. It's a very loose translation that often distorts the original text so that it is more compatible with Christianity and (particularly) Advaita Vedanta. I don't find anything wrong with finding commonalities between various religious traditions (in fact, I encourage it), but it's important to honor the spirit of each individual philosophy and accurately represent their teachings. I don't think Easwaran really understood Buddhism, though his translation of the Gita (a Hindu text) is among the best. A good alternative for the Dhammapada is Gil Fronsdal's version, or either of the two translation that can be found here.

Thanks for that. I thought it was a bit curious that he would do a version of the Dhammapada when his Gita is among the best. That says to me his knowledge of Hinduism is far deeper. I like the comparative aspect but I'd like to check out the version you mentioned.

Ethan_McCune

I suggest the Diamond and Surangama Sutras very good, confusing, yet eye opening