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Bodhisattva Vow and Evangelism
matthewmartin
Amateur BodhisattvaSuburbs of Mt Meru Veteran
I'm particularly fishing for the various orthodox answers to this question, I already know evangelism is unfashionable and a live and let live religious tolerance is fashionable.
To use an analogy-- I got "novel"-citta, the aspiration to write the great American novel. I plan to do it after I become a novelist, sometime in the far distant future. But I know I'm a poseur, the only one I'm fooling is myself.
Historically speaking, did Mahayana lose it's Evangelical flavor? Did it lose it when it came to the US and Europe (and Australia)?
However innumerable sentient beings are, I vow to save them.It's a nice heroic goal. Wouldn't this entail getting out at converting people to Buddhism, teaching and preaching? If we aren't, isn't this an insincere sentiment? Shouldn't we at least feel some cognitive dissonance if and when we interpret this to mean we'll save 'em *after* we are enlightened, in our *next* lifetime?
To use an analogy-- I got "novel"-citta, the aspiration to write the great American novel. I plan to do it after I become a novelist, sometime in the far distant future. But I know I'm a poseur, the only one I'm fooling is myself.
Historically speaking, did Mahayana lose it's Evangelical flavor? Did it lose it when it came to the US and Europe (and Australia)?
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Comments
So for you, what does saving sentient beings entail?
And I would quibble with the "conversion", (feel free to quibble with my choice of the word "evangelism") since they both come from a Christian vocabulary.
Enlightenment seems like it would entail completing the 8 fold path, or the other systems of liberation (like lam rim). So while such a person might not be a self identifying Buddhist, wouldn't they have to act a lot like one? So while maybe not converting in the sense of getting people to recite the triple refuge, they'd have to do something more intrusive and complete the path of a Buddhist.
To use an analogy-- I got "novel"-citta, the aspiration to write the great American novel. I plan to do it after I become a novelist, sometime in the far distant future. But I know I'm a poseur, the only one I'm fooling is myself.
Historically speaking, did Mahayana lose it's Evangelical flavor? Did it lose it when it came to the US and Europe (and Australia)?
Sounds like you sorta wanna be a Catholic in an orange robe.
On some level this is actually only possible when we ourselves are awareness holders. We create the space and then the rest is done by the universe. But that is too esoteric and really would end our conversation here.
So lets get practical. We learn to access our non-existence and the unknown. From there we examine the world. From our examination we respond accordingly. And this is not a theory or idea or ideology. It is directly showing up in our circumstance, ending the preoccupation of expectation and reward and directly seeing what is needed moment to moment.
So its more like a dance or a improv comedy sketch.
And in this sense its not even buddhist. its human relating.
there is no converting either. simply put if the individual that needs help requires us to speak their language. we conform to their language. that means if they speak in the language of Christianity, then that is the language we must speak.
dharma in a clear sense must be rooted firmly as our lives and we can no longer hide behind pretty sounding dharma words.
its really simple. human kindness. human obviousness. we must say yes to people and no to people based on what they need. and we can only see what they need if we ourselves get out of the way.
without the hinayana ground or rather our individual practice then this just becomes a game of saving the world, being a good person, etc. and though that has benefits, its narcissistic.
a fine line. as the spiritual path is a showcase for our failings as well.
but suffering is always honest.
** I have hypothesis in Buddhism. I think it could work.
Catholicism is a big thing with many parts, so I'm just guessing at which part you're referring to. Is the implication that evangelism is merely the will to control? (Sort of like how the Spaniards mostly wanted to pacify the natives in the West so they could exploit them as slaves and a source of gold?) Maybe the Bodhisattva vow holds in it some cynical evil plan to exert power over others?
Buddhism itself didn't become a large religion out of an aggressive campaign of letting everyone be, letting them do their own thing. It was marketed and sold.
That part.
It shows no respect for other people's beliefs and intellect.
Evangelizers who some to my door never come a second time...regardless of the religion being pushed like a infomercial. (I do make an exception for Mormons who come, simply because I like to chat with them about my hometown -- the birthplace of Mormonism -- and quiz them about it).
**continuing to use the Christian word evangelism, not suggesting that we should wear white shirts, business suits and bike around town handing out a recent copy of Tricycle-- the only other Buddhisty term I know is from SGI/Nichiren, that word is down right scary sounding "shakubuku" ("bend or break" and "subdue,")
Starbucks manages to sell a lot of coffee and they don't get accused of having no respect for intelligence, autonomy and so on.
I too don't see "saving" all beings from suffering as involving Buddhist evangelism.
At a bare bones level, when you notice suffering, you seek to alleviate it. It's not always possible because of the karma of the sufferer or your own lack of skill, which leads one to improve their level of skill to address more kinds of suffering.
As a nurse in oncology (cancer nursing), no matter how skillful I become, I cannot prevent a person's death (for instance), or the grief of the family experiencing the loss. What I *can* do is simply witness it with them, give simple comforts within my scope of ability and practice. I can 'ease' the suffering, a tiny bit, but not stop it.
It would never occur to me to say word number one about Buddhism, unless a sufferer brought it up themselves. And then, it is only one more 'connection' between us, where we speak and understand a particular 'language' or conceptual universe.
Now and then I meet a patient or family who share that they are practicing Buddhists (rarely). Maybe more are but they don't announce it. I don't have any greater inroad to ease their suffering, I don't think. Buddhism might be a commonality but again, Buddhism is as diverse as sects of Christians and Muslims.
& secondly.....
There are transition stages on the path, where practitioners when experiencing a malaise from no longer having worldly self interests for motivation, can be helped through with teachings that offer selflessness as a replacement.
However, we tend to only go where we are invited and tend to tolerate other viewepoints, unlike evangelicals and religions that have an exclusive mindset. There are exceptions, of course.
I follow a Bodhisattva practice. I don't see the vow to save all beings as the same thing as vowing to convert them to Buddhism. For one thing, the billions of Muslims and Christians and Jews, etc, are simply not going to realize Buddha is the religion for them and embrace our Sangha. That doesn't even begin to cover the many atheists out there. Instead, I vow to find a way for all of us to live in peace together.
This is hardly setting up shop and waiting for people to show up on their own volition. (Nor is it the straw man of taking away peoples ability to choose)
@Hamsaka
re: conclusions
I'm just doing a naive reading of the 1st Bodhisattva Vow. Either Buddhism works and universal liberation would entail spreading some Buddhism or this is essentially an insincere vow. As for if many people care about the Bodhisattva vow, I'm sure many don't-- it doesn't play a role in Theravada style Buddhism at all (which is different from saying that Theravadin Buddhism doesn't have a social consciousness, It does).
re: death bed conversions
Doesn't seem like a skillful time to discuss new religions, they likely do not have enough time. (Elsewhere on the site I mentioned a hypothetical of using Pure Land stories to make someone feel better about impending death-- obviously that isn't going to be helpful if they aren't already predisposed to the idea or have a child-like willingness to believe all sorts of things)
I go to Air Force Academy men's basketball games. There are ads there, I pay zero attention to them and have never patronized a company that advertises there. When I watch television, when the commercial breaks come, I get up and do other things...or more frequently record the shows and FF through the commercials. I've never seen a single Starbucks ad other than in the newspaper, and ignore them when they are there. I know a number of avid-Starbuckers, they've never tried to seduce me into going to Starbucks.
Stop pushing "it" to those who do not seek "it".
I did a google search for "Buddhist membership drive" which is about as neutral of a language as I could think of--- if organizations don't have members, they shut down, regardless to how they feel about the merits or effectiveness of marketing.
I found this:
http://gyalwagyatso.org/get-involved/membership-program/
http://www.ekojirichmond.org/ <-- DC area group, their home page mentions membership drive. I actually chatted with an outreach guy who came to a meetup. He was sort of jerky because he *only* wanted to talk about if I wanted to join Ekoji. Not skillful. But there *is* outreach.
http://bcsfweb.org/index.php/membership/74-bcsf-2013-membership-drive - Another PL membership drive.
I won't bother to list SGI membership drives, they're already infamous (or were) for aggressive recruiting.
And the mere fact that that there are a billion and one Buddhist organization websites... this may be inbound marketing, but it is marketing.
Anyhow, it seems like the disdain for marketing Buddhism is a western overlay on Buddhism.
And the idea that Buddhism as a religion involves no effort to spread (either by membership drives, inbound marketing or inquisitions with thumb screws) is probably a western myth.
Almost any clinging in a worldly mind has its potential equivalent in a religious one.
Best to look at the practice of any Buddhist school or linage as you would of any person.
Subject to change and all the frailties that the human condition can offer.
Who is trying to get who to get back on track? Oh the Mahayana practitioner is over there pointing to the dirtiest and dusty track imaginable that seems to lead nowhere, but wait theres a great hotel over here thats doing B&B for free if you take out a loan agreement that binds you into a £33% APR contact with 0% finance over 3 years, providing you have a few friends over to party with, and they pay full price for a weeks stay in nibtown .
Sorry to all you safe and sound buddhists whose sole trade is bounded by financial dealings to the poor and victimised of society. You are not here so it doesn't matter.
Just a few more thoughts spilling over into NBland. One day it may become the PLand.
Goodnight friends and mettha
In that light not much long term good comes from aggressively converting someone.
You were looking for a more Buddhist word than conversion, maybe persuasion works. In the past in India head teachers of differing beliefs would sometimes debate and the loser and all his disciples would then convert to the winning sides beliefs.
Also, today there are some Buddhist organizations that have developed an evangelical mindset, maybe the ones you linked above.
I think its also important to keep in mind the cosmological context of the vow. For most Buddhists beings are countless and the number of lives we have to save them are also countless. So there is no big rush to get everyone into Buddhism right now.
"Then how should Buddhism be spread?"
Who says Buddhism should be spread?
Buddhism is a system that works. It can lead to enlightenment.
Other systems may also work. Tao Te Ching. Advaita. Yoga.
It is even possible to become enlightened without using any
religious or philosophical "system" at all.
One of the things I like about Buddhism is the complete lack of
what I call "One-True-Religion-ism".
I have never gotten the idea that the Bodhisattva vow has
anything to do with converting anyone to Buddhism.
There are Buddhist evangelical sects, for example the state terrorism of Sri Lanka is sponsored by malevolent politico monks who wish to wipe out Hinduism and replace it with state sponsored Dharma. I recently went to a Tamil memorial/Remembrance Day where a Buddhist monk in a theatrical representation, was portrayed as an evil sword carrying evangelical.
. . . or maybe this once popular mix of Christianity and Buddhism is a good example of evangelical thinking . . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aum_Shinrikyo
'Hello we are collecting for our local Sangha, would you have a few moments to share? Here is a copy of 'The Four Noble Truths'. Ooh they just slammed the door in our face, how rude . . . no free 'Mr cushion' or escape from samsara for them . . .'
and now back to the converted . . .
"You know, I just love it when those Mormon boys drop by our house twice a year to try to convert us."
Or
"I just felt all warm and fuzzy when the Jehovah's Kingdom Witness stopped by and dropped off the monthly edition of 'The Watchtower'".
Or
"I really miss having those Hare Krishnas stop and preach at me at the airport."
Or
"Thank God almighty! Last night the Born-Agains knocked on my door, and my wife, and 3 kids, and I converted on the spot! We have seen the light! Alleluia!"
I become uncomfortable when someone goes evangelical on me. This discomfort is in direct proportion to how badly I want to tell them to stop bothering.
At a very very low spot in my life, a caring Christian friend called me every few days and tried very hard to bring me into the fold. I welcomed her efforts (my own had never gotten me anywhere near conversion, maybe hers could?) and appreciated the comfort she brought me. Even she couldn't convert me with my full willingness. The crucial point is, I said 'yes' to the subject first. She responded, and it was a good thing, albeit futile.
The last time someone went evangelical on me I was trying to discharge her husband from the hospital. I was removing an internal jugular central line (the one that goes into your neck vein). It involves removing sutures and having the patient hold their breath at exactly the same time as you pull out the six inch long internal catheter. Then you hold firm pressure on the exit hole for 15 minutes for obvious reasons. I managed to say as evenly and patiently and kindly as I could, "Thank you for the invitation, it sounds like you really get a lot from your church." She reminded me I WAS INVITED two or three more times, in case I missed it the first time. He husband, his head craned hard to the right while I partially cut off his windpipe from the other side finally said "Evelyn, I don't think she's deaf."
The second to last time I was outside a craft store, in my car waiting for my daughter to come out, window down to enjoy the breeze. A shadow fell across the sun and a tiny little woman put her face less than a foot from mine and said "Do you know Jesus?" Her eyes were near teary, and she looked as though she already loved me. I almost leaped out the passenger door, and that's saying a lot as I was driving a stick shift with bucket seats. Jesus, maybe. But his messenger startled the shit out of me. I managed "Um, no thanks, have a nice day" and rolled up my window real fast. I hated how 'rude' I felt but hated being approached like that more.
It puts a person in a tight bind, to evangelisize at them uninvited. The immediate challenge is to remain polite while you feel intruded upon.
My closest girlfriend is a Christian, and knows I am 'of a Buddhist persuasion', but only because she asked. When another nurse at worked asked me how I stayed so calm when a family member verbally assaulted me (and the whole hospital) at the nurse's station, I didn't say 'because I am a Buddhist' because that's not the reason. The reason was that I don't go tit for tat with crazy people (ie, people having rage attacks that mask unbearable grief). Yep, I learned this from the Buddha and his followers. If the nurse had persisted in her curiosity about where I was coming from, I'd might have ended up explaining more and including Buddhism as my primary influence.
If a person wants what you have, they'll ask.
Our doorstep has been Evangelist free ever since.
I had a homeless man in Denver abuse me for wearing this shirt.....
In my country, when a person in the family dies, that's when they have the opportunity to know Buddhism because the Buddhist funeral lasts 7 weeks. For 7 weeks, each Sunday the family must come to the pagoda to pray for the death and read the Sutra to the death. They have 7 weeks to think about life and death and Buddhist Sutra. Many becomes devout Buddhists after.
The best thing to spread Buddhism is to plant a seed of Buddhism inside a person and let it grows naturally inside the person at their own pace. Sometimes it takes several life time for it to grow. No need to hurry.
As Mother Teresa once famously said: