Are most people only self interested?

Wisdom23

For the past few weeks i have only practised mindfulness, just observing not labellung or categorising, just observing. Despite me saying i can't help notice that most people act out of self interest whether this be in the material sense i.e they will only do something if they are rewarded with a token or favou. Don't we only give to charity so we can feel good? My point being that Buddhism empghsises selflessness but hardly amyone else seems to ne doing this, what are uour thoughts ?

federica

My thoughts - if I may be blunt - is that this is a subject that has been discussed 'ad nauseam'.

People who are not Buddhist, or do not adhere to Buddhist values/principles are enacting the 1st/2nd Noble Truths. There's no reason why they shouldn't. If they don't study Buddhism, they're not going to practice selflessness,

Buddhists gain pleasure from doing things for others but there is egoic-pleasure and altruistic pleasure.

Others may come in with differing PoV's but it's a commonly discussed topic....

Rodrigo

Wisdom23 said:

For the past few weeks i have only practised mindfulness, just observing not labellung or categorising, just observing. Despite me saying i can't help notice that most people act out of self interest whether this be in the material sense i.e they will only do something if they are rewarded with a token or favou. Don't we only give to charity so we can feel good? My point being that Buddhism empghsises selflessness but hardly amyone else seems to ne doing this, what are uour thoughts ?

Being selfish or egocentric is our human nature. Even when we start practicing Buddhism, we are trying to be happy, to feel better, to get rid of our suffering. However, as we understand the reasons of our feelings in a deeper way, we can see that our suffering is caused by our selfishness. And then, we face a conundrum: we try to get rid of our selfish desires to be happy, but this is also selfish. I don't know how do you solve this, but I think trying to get an answer to this is perhaps one of the paths to enlightenment.

Cinorjer

Of course people act from self-interest quite a bit. It's our default. That applies to Buddhists, also. You're just beginning to see people with a clear mind. But you're still focusing on only one part of what a person is. We tend to repeat actions that bring rewards. Basic conditioning. You're hungry, so you eat. You like sweet tasting food, so you eat candy.

But our minds are not that simple, in spite of what Dr. Skinner tried to say in his behaviorism theory. Most people do unselfish things all the time, and not just for the people you love. If you have children, you wear the same shoes until they fall apart so you can buy them a new pair. But even in today's paranoid world, if someone ends up in a wreck or other trouble, most of the time some stranger will quickly try to help.

Why does it feel good to give a few dollars to a beggar? Because we empathize with their suffering. But that's not why we give. You can get even more pleasure by using that money to buy yourself something instead. But you choose to give it away.

Ask yourself, would it be better to feel nothing? There are people who are totally selfish, of course. Not as many as you'd think, though. Try looking for unselfish behavior and you'll be surprised at what you see.

Cinorjer

http://thechive.com/2014/01/30/13-examples-of-people-being-amazing-in-the-midst-of-atlantas-massive-traffic-jam-13-photos/

federica

Rodrigo said:

.....And then, we face a conundrum: we try to get rid of our selfish desires to be happy, but this is also selfish. I don't know how do you solve this, but I think trying to get an answer to this is perhaps one of the paths to enlightenment.

..."If you can meet with Triumph ['happy'] and Disaster ['selfish']
And treat those two Impostors just the same...."

cvalue

Until we become Buddha, we still have ego! so we should not worry too much about it. Giving money away to help poor people is a step in the right direction. It helps cure our greediness gradually because giving money out is the opposite of taking in that is a form of greediness. At the beginning, we can only give a little, but as our compassion grows, we can give more and become less greedy.

I heard meditation can change our brain? As we gain more insight, it opens us up for understanding others better. As a result of better understanding, we will become more compassionate, less angry and our ego will reduce?

David

Seeing myself in others, I am selfish in my selflessness.

If I help you there is no getting around the fact that I help myself.

It's a catch-22 because the me that's important includes you.

federica

Namaste....

anataman

My Thoughts on self interest? Where do I start.

Hmmm. First I need to find the 'wish-fulfilling jewel'
http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2942

BhikkhuJayasara

Almost all that we do is based out of the three roots of attachment, aversion, and delusion. This is not a Buddhist vs non Buddhist thing, it's a human thing. Don't get me started on all the ways a Buddhist can act out of "self interest"...

I not sure we ever destroy self interest fully, maybe even after becoming awakened, because we should care for ourselves as we do others. When we detach from the ego, begin to see anatta, and perform actions based out of non-attachment, non-aversion, and wisdom... then "self interest" in the context of this thread is lessened.

fivebells

As [King Pasenadi] was sitting there, he said to the Blessed One, "Just now, when I had gone with Queen Mallikā to the upper palace, I said to her, 'Mallikā, is there anyone dearer to you than yourself?'

"When this was said, she said to me, 'No, great king. There is no one dearer to me than myself. And what about you, great king? Is there anyone dearer to you than yourself?'

"When this was said, I said to her, 'No, Mallikā. There is no one dearer to me than myself.'"

Then, on realizing the significance of that, the Blessed One on that occasion exclaimed:

Searching all directions
with your awareness,
you find no one dearer
than yourself.
In the same way, others
are thickly dear to themselves.
So you shouldn't hurt others
if you love yourself.

Zero

Wisdom23 said:

i can't help notice that most people act out of self interest...
My point being that Buddhism empghsises selflessness but hardly amyone else seems to ne doing this,
what are uour thoughts ?

Consider the observation as it applies to you otherwise the observation itself may become a distraction.
Are you searching for reciprocity and with it contradiction?

wangchuey

Its natural. The truth is we don't know for sure and we shouldn't assume. It may seem that way at times. There are plenty of good people out there. They just prefer to only appear when the time is right. From my perspective anyways.

how

@Wisdom23
The question of this thread is predicated on a worldly assumption that there is a real "You" that is watching "Others".
A Buddhist practice eventually demonstrates that all that separates this "YOU" from those "OTHERS" is the same delusion that manifests as any of our present expressions of ego/identity today.
With practice as that delusion starts to dissipate, then so does the self verses other interests and then the practitioner simply practices for practice sake.
An egocentric view of it is that what was formally a self centered view expands to include others but a less hindered view shows that neither had any more substance than the karmic inertia that birthed them. Our practice is the resolving of our delusional separation from existence.
Rather than twist a student with possibilities that are not yet here, most teachers will simply just respond with.......
"Just do your own practice"...And that turns out to be the most direct answer to it all.

Hamsaka

WE all seek happiness and the end of our suffering.

On a gross level, when *you* suffer, for instance, your suffering may manifest as anger. This anger impacts other beings within a certain radius. Sitting with an angry person, I experience a discomfort and thus suffer, too.

I know what How is saying is true by simple observation. While I notice the self-centeredness of others and proliferate thoughts about it, if I don't include myself in the mix I am psychotic (not online with the Mother Ship).

There is a nurse I work with who suffers an extreme delusion of separateness (lol, Buddhist-speak ). In normal parlance, she is often a raging bitch. A patient who was with us for a few weeks gave us a bag of red clown noses as a good bye gift when she was discharged. It was a riot! A couple of doctors got one, too. This particular nurse refused her clown nose, like it was handed to her and she backed off with a scared look on her face (quickly replaced with disdain). Everyone wore their red clown nose for a while and the general mood was really elevated, but that particular nurse had vamoosed. Normally, she enjoys being the center of attention.

I'm not going to psychoanalyze her, but clearly she felt averse to joining in. I've felt that before, in retrospect it is a feeling of self-hatred. I felt a drilling pain in the center of my chest when I witnessed her refusal of the clown nose, and I'm almost positive it was *her* pain at being confronted with her self-hatred and awful isolation that comes from it.

98% of the time this nurse exhibits an annoying narcissism and attention seeking, she'd sit on your lap if you'd let her, I swear. She's as connected and *we* as the most selfless person on Earth but her self-hatred distorts the sense of the connection until it doesn't feel like joyful, resting connection at all, more like humiliating exposure.

Oh hell, I psychoanalyzed her anyway. Mainly because I psychoanalyzed myself already. There are only so many stories in the world, and probably they are all the same story in the end (and beginning).

I'm not that great at 'remembering' and get lost in the psychosis or delusion, forget that I and You are one phenomenon manifesting in separate forms (apparently separate for the sake of a nod to quantum physics). The only result of that false separation is suffering.

Taking umbrage at the self-centeredness of others is a way of forgetting, or denial. This is an ongoing lesson for me.

lobster

Are most people only self interested?

Not given the chance . . .



Sing.

anataman

Are you suggesting Bryan Adams is a Boddhisatva @Lobster?

Theres no love unless your there?
You can't tell me theres nothing I want more...
I'd die for you...
You know it's true everything I do...
I do it for you!...
(partial excerpts I know - but........)
@Federica - how long is my grace period? Can it been extended?

I'll dooooo it for you!

Merci madame et monsieur

lobster

Are you suggesting Bryan Adams is a Boddhisatva @Lobster?

Love is the Boddhisattvah. Singers are just conduits, just as monks or books may transmit without being transformed . . . you knew that right?

and now back to the Unsung Song . . .

BhikkhuJayasara

lobster said:

Are most people only self interested?

Not given the chance . . .



Sing.

I just watched Robin Hood... one of the best movies ever

federica

Jayantha said:

I just watched Robin Hood... one of the best movies ever

*sticks fingers down throat*

It was appalling!!

robot

federica said:

Jayantha said:

I just watched Robin Hood... one of the best movies ever

*sticks fingers down throat*

It was appalling!!

Truly. And made more disappointing by being the work of Ridley Scott who gave us Gladiator.