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We do not know
betaboy
Veteran
We know, but we know little and we do not know with absolute certainty.
This scares us and we invent theories as a result. For instance, if a person comes here and asks a question relating to death - let's say someone she loves has died - we honestly cannot answer that question. We do not know much about death, about the afterlife (if there is an afterlife), about anything regarding the subject. Yet we answer as if we know. We invent all kinds of ideas and theories, no facts whatsoever. We just want to comfort the person and perhaps ourselves also.
But the truth is, we do not know. What if life? death? nibanna? what is this sense of emptiness we experience, this dukkha? what is loneliness? What is fear? hate?
And so forth. We may know all this through experience - for instance, we have experienced fear or sorrow - but do we actually know what these things are? Is it even possible to study them the way we study things outside of us, in an objective manner?
That is why 'I do not know' is the most logical answer. It gives us a chance to learn, to grow.
This scares us and we invent theories as a result. For instance, if a person comes here and asks a question relating to death - let's say someone she loves has died - we honestly cannot answer that question. We do not know much about death, about the afterlife (if there is an afterlife), about anything regarding the subject. Yet we answer as if we know. We invent all kinds of ideas and theories, no facts whatsoever. We just want to comfort the person and perhaps ourselves also.
But the truth is, we do not know. What if life? death? nibanna? what is this sense of emptiness we experience, this dukkha? what is loneliness? What is fear? hate?
And so forth. We may know all this through experience - for instance, we have experienced fear or sorrow - but do we actually know what these things are? Is it even possible to study them the way we study things outside of us, in an objective manner?
That is why 'I do not know' is the most logical answer. It gives us a chance to learn, to grow.
3
Comments
What will you not know tomorrow?
:wave:
Illusory. Part of the 1st Noble truth.... Yes, because studying and understanding buddhist teachings gives us insight. Sadly, this seems to be the most logical answer for you. No matter how much is taught - here and elsewhere, you just don't seem to be taking it in.
We might say that their loved one has gone to better place like heaven. Or that they are at peace and no longer in pain.
Or if someone is going to die soon we can tell them things that comfort them.
When you don't know, you can say whatever is appropriate.
Imagine telling someone who is grieving that their loved one will be reborn into samsara, when they believe they will be seeing that person again in heaven.
If you want to know, why don't you ask Lobster?
One less thing to be ignorant about.
I know, but I know little and I do not know with absolute certainty.
This scares me and I invent theories as a result. For instance, if a person comes here and asks a question relating to death - let's say someone she loves has died - I honestly cannot answer that question. I do not know much about death, about the afterlife (if there is an afterlife), about anything regarding the subject. Yet I answer as if we know. I invent all kinds of ideas and theories, no facts whatsoever. I just want to comfort the person and perhaps myself also....
In some translations of The Dhammapada, Gautama is alleged to have said, "It is not what others do and do not do that is my concern. It is what I do and do not do -- that is my concern."
So my point is, we can say 'I know' - and tentatively at that - if science has confirmed things to a degree. The rest of the time what we have is speculation. So 'I don't know' would be a better frame of mind...........
I bow at the feet of my teacher Marpa.
And sing this song in response to you.
Listen, pay heed to what I say,
forget your critique for a while.
The best seeing is the way of "nonseeing" --
the radiance of the mind itself.
The best prize is what cannot be looked for --
the priceless treasure of the mind itself.
The most nourishing food is "noneating" --
the transcendent food of samadhi.
The most thirst-quenching drink is "nondrinking" --
the nectar of heartfelt compassion.
Oh, this self-realizing awareness
is beyond words and description!
The mind is not the world of children,
nor is it that of logicians.
Attaining the truth of "nonattainment,"
you receive the highest initiation.
Perceiving the void of high and low,
you reach the sublime stage.
Approaching the truth of "nonmovement,"
you follow the supreme path.
Knowing the end of birth and death,
the ultimate purpose is fulfilled.
Seeing the emptiness of reason,
supreme logic is perfected.
When you know that great and small are groundless,
you have entered the highest gateway.
Comprehending beyond good and evil
opens the way to perfect skill.
Experiencing the dissolution of duality,
you embrace the highest view.
Observing the truth of "nonobservation"
opens the way to meditating.
Comprehending beyond "ought" and "oughtn't"
opens the way to perfect action.
When you realize the truth of "noneffort,"
you are approaching the highest fruition.
Ignorant are those who lack this truth:
arrogant teachers inflated by learning,
scholars bewitched by mere words,
and yogis seduced by prejudice.
For though they yearn for freedom,
they find only enslavement.
http://www.insightmeditationcenter.org/books-articles/articles/not-knowing/
And the appropriate grieving. Pretty much the same for my dad.
Sometimes things can be more traumatic, sometimes less.
That's what death is to me.
I often had to certify death (and doing a respiratory/geriatric placement in my first 6 months in the winter time this was really part of the bread and butter of my job) and when I did I was always struck by the appearance of the cold inanimate body of the 'person' who had been chatting to me just yesterday or the day before. Sometimes they would have expressed their fear of dying, some just didn't want to talk about it or face up the inevitable fact that they had reached the end of their life and were dying, but there was always one or two who had taken the effort to approach their mortality head on, either as a practitioner of a faith-based religion or in a non-secular rational way.
Whatever the approach the outcome was the same and I always had the sense of inner peace in the presence of someone who had just died. There was no outward sense that the 'person' existed any longer, and as this was now a non-functioning corpse, it did not express any of the wants, needs, worries, cares or opinions, it had done previously.
I always tried to do what was legally required of me in a dignified way, and that is really when I truly started to understand compassion and started to develop compassion. Every person I know or don't know will be in this state at the end of their lives. That is why I want to understand and prepare for it now, so that when I am dying, I can reassure everyone that I will have inner peace, and so will they when they face that spectre that binds each and everyone of us.
Mettha
I'm not sure what else there is to know about it.
If I remember by chance any of these I explore it for a while then let it go. I would hate to spoil this current cup of tea because I still had some left in my cup from yesterday.
What is it that exists between teas?
Just an empty cup and the potential for tea.
I know, I'll just be completely empty and start with this as an idea and see what happens.
Hmmm, I'll need to be ignorant to start with because I don't want to remember immediately what the hell I've got myself into. But I'll need an alarm clock, lets call it suffering, that will wake me up, yes a bit of pain once in a while, the pinch in the dream.
I'll need it to be a condition that I will eventually wake up to what's going on (the get out clause) I'll make sure that no one lives for ever, yes so got to build in a set of rules - so lets make everything impermanent. That will make me sit up and listen, won't it.
What have I missed, the initial cause, BANG!
Nurse: he's not crying
Doctor: give his backside a good slap
Waaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!
MUM: welcome to the world, you've caused me so much pain
Damn waking up but no one else is - how am I going to escape this ridiculous cage I have trapped myself in. Hang on What Self?
To the degree that i can stop feeding my own skandha based story line, is the degree to which knowledge simply appears unhindered by my own conditioned reflexes.
That knowledge is momentary, ethereal, un possessable, eternal, and intrinsically free of belief.
The stillness of a corpse is a hint of the possibilities of peace.
I've never been with a corpse that died suddenly and traumatically, was dismembered or destroyed.
Those images live with me and, like many people who suffer from PTDS - those images regularly return as a reminder of something that may be waiting around the corner.
The problem with having it all wrapped up is that we can no longer see it.
"There is the case where a monk, having gone to the wilderness, to the shade of a tree, or to an empty building, sits down folding his legs crosswise, holding his body erect, and setting mindfulness to the fore.[1] Always mindful, he breathes in; mindful he breathes out.
...
"And how is mindfulness of in-&-out breathing developed & pursued so as to bring the four frames of reference to their culmination?
...
"And how are the four frames of reference developed & pursued so as to bring the seven factors for awakening to their culmination?
...
"And how are the seven factors for awakening developed & pursued so as to bring clear knowing & release to their culmination? There is the case where a monk develops mindfulness as a factor for awakening dependent on seclusion, dependent on dispassion, dependent on cessation, resulting in relinquishment. He develops analysis of qualities as a factor for awakening... persistence as a factor for awakening... rapture as a factor for awakening... serenity as a factor for awakening... concentration as a factor for awakening... equanimity as a factor for awakening dependent on seclusion, dependent on dispassion, dependent on cessation, resulting in relinquishment.
"This is how the seven factors for awakening are developed & pursued so as to bring clear knowing & release to their culmination."
That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, the monks delighted in the Blessed One's words.
Anapanasati Sutta: Mindfulness of Breathing: MN 118
It's not your hair you need to be concerned about.
if you want´o know about that, read the Dighanikayo. It will take some time but it´s worth it.
anando