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Theravada Buddhism , Vegetarianism

Hello all!
I was thinking about eating meat.Buddha allowed his monks to eat pork, chicken and beef if the monk was aware that the animal was not killed on their behalf. But think, the animals are KILLED for us, it doesn't matter if the slaughter, who killed animal, doesn't even know your name, but the animal was killed indirectly for you(if u will buy it). What do you think friends?

Comments

  • BhikkhuJayasaraBhikkhuJayasara Bhikkhu Veteran
    edited February 2014
    Yes the Buddha was not a vegetarian, nor are many, if not most buddhists. As for the Monks in Theravada(and ancient times), what they eat is solely dependent on what is given. if the laity gave the monks nothing but Oreo cookies, that is what they would have to eat.

    The Buddha did not wish for there to be restrictions because monks do impose a strain on the lay persons livelihood, and its expected that a person only give to the monk if they want to give, and only so much that it doesn't hurt your own family.

    As for the "killed for us" rule. This is for monks that they cannot eat only if the KNOW the animal was killed DIRECTLY for them. IE a monk comes visiting and someone goes out back and kills a chicken because of the monks visit. This whole " well since you were going to eat the animal was killed indirectly for you" thing doesn't cut it when it comes to kamma. There is no bad kamma for eating meat.

    in fact vegetarianism was used in an attempt to split the sangha and cause problems by Buddha's cousin devadatta, who wanted to have 13 extra rules put into place for the monks that were more ascetic, vegetarianism was one of these rules. The Buddha stated that if monks wish to follow these rules they can, otherwise they are not forced to.

    anyways for all these threads I always post these two links, The first by Ajahn Brahm

    http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma3/meat.html

    and a second

    http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma3/vegi.html

    Yik_Yis_YiiTheEccentricCarlita
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran
    Faustrim said:

    Hello all!
    I was thinking about eating meat.Buddha allowed his monks to eat pork, chicken and beef if the monk was aware that the animal was not killed on their behalf. But think, the animals are KILLED for us, it doesn't matter if the slaughter, who killed animal, doesn't even know your name, but the animal was killed indirectly for you(if u will buy it). What do you think friends?

    I think you should not think or listen to what we think, but be guided by your heart. What is driiving you to eat meat?

    If you have never eaten meat before why the desire now?

    If you are a meat eater and are raising the question of what are the consequences of eating meat, then there are many answers to choose from. But I would suggest you would best investigate that, that raised the question.

    Mettha
    BunkslobsterEthan_McCuneyagr
  • ChazChaz The Remarkable Chaz Anywhere, Everywhere & Nowhere Veteran
    Faustrim said:

    Hello all!
    I was thinking about eating meat.Buddha allowed his monks to eat pork, chicken and beef if the monk was aware that the animal was not killed on their behalf. But think, the animals are KILLED for us, it doesn't matter if the slaughter, who killed animal, doesn't even know your name, but the animal was killed indirectly for you(if u will buy it). What do you think friends?

    I think you should do exactly what you want and forget about what others think or say.

    If you want to eat meat, eat meat and don't beat yourself up over it.

    anatamandhammachicklobsterEthan_McCune
  • Im living in family, because im just 16 years old. And it's hard to separate, for example sunday lunch, ... I really don't like that,but sometimes i have no choice .
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Eat what you think is right, but don't proselytize about it.
    dhammachicknoflies
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    You can find some of my thoughts about it here and here if you're interested.
    Faustrim
  • Thank you all :)

    But my friend, who worked on farm, where the cows were killed and then they were working with that meat, say me that: the farmers were killing the cows really brutal, and the cows weren't healthy as well, they had inflammation on the breasts(big like soccer ball), and some of the cows were pregnant too :( , that's really sad, i can't imagine the brutality on bigger farms, with other animals too ..
  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran
    edited February 2014
    Namaste @Faustrim I hear you.

    If you feel you are obliged to eat meat but are unhappy about that, I offer you something that might seem a little weird, but it works for me.

    First if someone offers you a meal that has meat in it; thank them (for their generosity of spirit) and offer them ... (a silent blessing of) ... gratitude in return, 'thank you this looks and/or tastes great'. Look at it and taste it. If you can do that there is a great reward for you and them.

    Second, when you are eating the meal, take time to compliment them on how wonderful the food is, especially if it really is an enjoyable meal for you. It may well taste amazingly good, savour each mouthful, feel the texture of the food and then let it just be swallowed up and become part of you. When you contemplate this it is quite rewarding to.

    Lastly, when you go to bed think about what you have done that day, but don't focus on any detail, focus on the meat if that is a problem for you. Think about the animal that offered up its life for your enjoyment and then try to connect with it. After all it is now materially part of you. If you can hear you, it can hear you now...

    Mettha
    Bunkscvalueyagr
  • Existence is suffering. Whenever I eat fish, I like to see my dear friends the fish's head on the plate.

    As someone who considers vegetables, trees and rocks as friends, I am prepared to eat my friends. You may not be.

    PS. the only rocks I am aware of eating is salt.
    I will now turn myself over to the authorities for further evaluation. I just hope they do not add me to the food chain prematurely

    :wave:
    BunksVastmindcvalueyagr
  • matthewmartinmatthewmartin Amateur Bodhisattva Suburbs of Mt Meru Veteran
    Jayantha said:

    Yes the Buddha was not a vegetarian, nor are many, if not most buddhists.

    Most *Therevada and Tibetan Buddhists* -- In Chinese Buddhism, Korean Buddhism and Pre-Meiji reform Japanese Buddhism, the monks were vegetarians (they lived in monasteries that grew their own food, so they could be picky) and they encouraged lay followers to be vegetarian as well, albeit often in a lent-sort of way of esposodic vegetarianism.

    By the super-uber-scientific poll on DhammaWeb.org (the premier therevada forum)-- about 50% of Therevadans (who visit forums and enjoy answering polls) are some sort of vegetarian, that is 25 times higher than the US rate and almost 6 times the typical West europe rates (of 2% and 20% respectively)
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    ...
    By the super-uber-scientific poll on DhammaWeb.org (the premier therevada forum)-- about 50% of Therevadans (who visit forums and enjoy answering polls) are some sort of vegetarian, that is 25 times higher than the US rate and almost 6 times the typical West europe rates (of 2% and 20% respectively)

    And I imagine that is primarily based on Western -- and specifically American -- Buddhists. A distinct minority of Theravadans.

    matthewmartin
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited February 2014
    Jayantha said:

    Yes the Buddha was not a vegetarian, nor are many, if not most buddhists.

    There is no empirical evidence, either way, that the Buddha did or did not eat meat. We take the teaching of meat being killed and presented, specifically for you, as we choose to take it.
  • Consider the first precept, Right Intention, and butchery as Wrong Livelihood.
    cvalue
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited February 2014
    Faustrim said:

    Hello all!
    I was thinking about eating meat.Buddha allowed his monks to eat pork, chicken and beef if the monk was aware that the animal was not killed on their behalf. But think, the animals are KILLED for us, it doesn't matter if the slaughter, who killed animal, doesn't even know your name, but the animal was killed indirectly for you(if u will buy it). What do you think friends?

    The Buddha allowed monks to eat meat that was "pure in 3 respects". However, they weren't choosing what they were going to eat and they weren't spending money on what they ate. Some people argue that if you intentionally choose it and intentionally purchase it, knowing that it was killed for you, the consumer. Knowing that your money is going to support a slaughterhouse, the meat is no longer "pure in 3 respects", especially when you have the option of purchasing something else.

  • SpinyNormanSpinyNorman Veteran
    edited February 2014
    seeker242 said:

    Some people argue that if you intentionally choose it and intentionally purchase it, knowing that it was killed for you, the consumer. Knowing that your money is going to support a slaughterhouse, the meat is no longer "pure in 3 respects", especially when you have the option of purchasing something else.

    That's how I see it. Also if we do buy meat we are expecting somebody else to break the first precept and do wrong livelihood ( butchery ), which seems hypocritical to me.
    And I wonder how developing Right Intention is compatible with contributing to the suffering and killing of animals, for whatever reason.
    matthewmartinInvincible_summer
  • Aspiring_BuddhistAspiring_Buddhist Seeker of the Buddha Within WA Veteran

    I've wondered about this myself - I rarely eat any fruits/vegetables, which I clearly should eat more of.

    I try to defer to the Dalai Lama on this topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Dalai_Lama#Diet_and_animal_welfare

    I want to lower my meat intake; going to try smaller portions. My goal is to adopt an alternate day diet.

  • yagryagr Veteran

    Sometimes, such as times like this, I think my lack of formal practice is a boon. There is so much data out there regarding this topic and arguments have been made on both sides going back to the Buddha and his cousin. I do not know which is right. I do believe (at this moment in time) that it is not my job to know what is right.

    I believe, that as a Buddhist, it is my job to pay attention. How do I feel when I eat meat and pay very close attention? How do I feel when I replace the euphemism's such as 'meat' with 'flesh' - or 'leather' with 'skin'? How do I feel as I cut through a piece of cow? How do I feel as I put a piece of the deer in my mouth? How do I feel as the chicken slides down my throat?

    More importantly, because I'm the only one I can change, what am I doing to myself when I don't pay attention to how I feel? What damage do I do to me when I ignore those feelings or refuse to act upon them?

    DobsInvincible_summer
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