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The Music Problem
ThailandTom
Veteran
in Meditation
Before i start I would like to state that I am not sure which way to be on this subject as it kind of contradicts itself.
Basically you can meditate in many ways, formally sat, walking, pretty much anything as long as you use a point of focus. Some have referred to a candle flame in the past. So why is music a nono and considered music therapy not meditation?
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Comments
I often meditate to music.
Where and why do you consider music to be a 'no-no'?
I find it's great for focused concentration, myself.....
Maybe using music that you don't normally care for or that you don't care about one way or the other.
Otherwise arent you just indulging in the pleasure of music? Like filling time listening to musc.
Because of the monks views on it, also people in the past have stated that meditating with music is not meditating, so I thought I would bring it up here. What music do you meditate to?
It seems to be a fine line, like you said you would be experiencing sensual pleasure if you liked it, but then gain isn't part of meditation realizing how your mind reacts and operates with stimuli? If you meditate in silence and hear some birds singing, you may like the sound of that, if you do not make a mental note of it then I don't see much difference.
Buddhist chants, "plinky-plonky music".... music specifically marketed for that purpose.....
It's because sitting meditation removes distractions. Without distractions the mind starts analyzing itself. And that is a good thing.
The mind is still lucid while listening to music, but it is distracted. That is to say the nature of mind is the same either way. But there is more opportunity to observe it if there are no distractions.
Obviously some folks are not going to like this post but
really??????
Meditation can mean many things to many people but as far as Buddhist Meditation goes
I can meditate in the presence of music but it really feels like it's in spite of the music.
It is the same as meditating while a news program is playing on the radio in the background, which is actually the deliberate introduction of specific stimuli which I then need to focus on not playing around with.
It is not impossible to do but you should ask yourself honestly why you'd choose to make the meditative process more complex that it is needs to be.
It turns our relationship with our sense gates whose teachings seem to become ever more subtle with time into a coarse maintenance program of attempted equinimity in the face of the senses that we are choosing to jazz up.
Again...Why?
I don't see anything wrong with meditative music - I used to use these a lot when I was younger. Things like the waves of the beach, nature sounds, animals, birds chirping, just stuff like that. Or even something like Classical.
Personally, I wouldn't listen to something I regularly listen to. These musics trigger pleasure centers in my brain that I, personally, find distracting while meditating.
If you can really meditate, listen to whatever you like. Just make sure you're actively meditating - focusing on your breath, your body, however your method is. If you find your mind constantly "tuning in" to the music, you'll notice there's another distraction there, and that could hurt your practice.
Try a day with music, and a day without, perhaps? Observe the differences in your states of mind. See if its useful for you to listen to music. Just be prepared to abandon the raft once you don't need it.
I meditate with music on when there is noise I find more distracting. Yes I could and can 'sit with the distraction' but will not be distracted by the 'harder' option . . .
I would tend to ambient music. The cost of chanting/music is it can result in trance like jollies . . . as well as stilling. Monks tend to suggest the ideal.
I'd say it's totally up to the individual, BUT, if you are REALLY meditating, why do you need an external stimulus?
I would imagine it also might depend on what kind meditation you are doing. I have noticed that here, we (including myself) tend to depict meditation as only shamatha or one pointed meditation, and that's not really the only type, even within Buddhist meditation. I personally don't do it, but if you honestly believe it works for you, then why does it matter what anyone else thinks?
It matters because of deep down integrity. In essence we 'play at meditating' or prepare for it because it is very disciplined, especially when we are not . . .
So the questioner is asking, in essence, 'will I be able to use my ipod at a group sit dharma centre?'
You know the answer.
On a few occasions yoga teachers in my experience, after yoga nidra would play music. Very relaxing. Relaxation is an important precursor.
Maybe play music and turn off when relaxed . . .
@how said it well, you can meditate 'despite music', I would also suggest as @Woah93 asked this question too, that one must explore the 'gates in' and not jump straight to 'ascetic monk discipline'.
You can meditate with a cupcake on your head and eat the cupcake when finished as a reward. Not ideal and rather distracting. There is no order of 'obese cup cake sangha' - yet.
Most of us suffer from meditation aversion when New Buddhists. Eventually meditation is more of a treat than any musical cupcake . . .
http://www.spiritsound.com/nadayoga.html
Time for me to dance to the silence as we meditators say . . .
I think each of us experiences music very differently. I am a musician, and so I probably hear more within music than other people might. Hence, I find music a distraction when meditating. Others seem to experience music no more deeply than they experience wallpaper. And a few on this thread actually use it to mask other sounds that they find more distracting.
So I think it has nothing to do with integrity, "deep down" or at any other height. I think it has to do with how the individual experiences music.
Whatever works, works.
Oh thanks for that image @ lobster.
Who here hasn't meditated like a retriever with a cupcake balanced on their head, just waiting for it to be over to taste it's finish,
There I was today at a chance meeting in a shop searching for Buddhas. Witch, wizard and crustacean all present. I was offered the opportunity to do a New Age Meditation/healing. The meditation involved sitting on a chair in a darkened room whilst holding rods. No laughing at the back . . . metal rods. They played me music and I just meditated for a while. Then I was able to describe my experiences. I think they were a little disappointed that I just described 'sitting' at quite an ordinary level. Apparently people have chakra experiences, OBE's and all sorts.
Ah well maybe next time I will ask for a different tune . . .or maybe I will offer to wear my official Yinyana meditation hat
Well yes, when going to a temple or meditation center, you have to abide by their rules. Just like school, you have to learn how they think is best for you to learn. That does not mean you cannot find other ways to learn when you are not that (and ways that may very well be more beneficial than the officially accepted way).
editing: I wonder how many people use music who live in big cities with lots of external noise and distraction? If it is more common for them versus someone who lives in a really quite area? Where I live, it is very, very quiet. Especially now in the winter, everything is muted and quiet, most of the birds are gone, there are few cars, and so on. Very easy to practice meditation. When I travel and am in bigger cities I have a much harder time. But if that is the reasoning, as was said above, is trading one distraction for another the ideal thing to do? I couldn't say.
I like silent meditation, but usually it is interrupted by a ceaseless chorus of birdsong, engines humming and the sound of tyres on tarmac as they pass the house. On some days I can't stand the pitter-patter of rain against my windows, bringing back sweet memories:
Something else I thought of that I could add to this thread:
When I was younger, I was close to living on the streets. My friend at the time, took me in and let me stay with him & his family. I was very grateful for this, and tried not to show my dissatisfactions with the living arrangements (let's just say - I didn't argue when they made me sleep on the floor when the beds were perfectly open & unused next to me...).
I learned a lot about dukkha during my stay there with my friends & his large, cultural family. I learned that I shouldn't refuse food, no matter how tasteless or bland, because every time I woke up the fridge & cupboards were locked and I wasn't allowed to eat until his Mother unlocked them. I learned that its useless to argue with somebody when you are living under their roof - otherwise, you'll get the boot and kicked back out onto the streets.
I also learned that Music can be very helpful when there's 10 Mexican children singing the top of their lungs "Bad Romance" and having a mini fiesta in the living room at 10am. The only way for me to meditate in this instance was to listen to the most relaxing music I had on my mp3 player.
After that, I let go of music and haven't used it since during my sitting time.