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How to best use the site

I've been here on NB now for about six weeks and I'd like to ask for some direction as to how one might best use the site. I'm grateful to be here and for having met some truly awesome personalities in that time. I've had some challenges here as well, though it is through no fault of the site. Frankly, I simply don't know how best to use it to further my study. There are a couple of issues and I'm wondering if anyone would like to weigh in on what worked for them.

Repeatedly I've seen advice to find a single teacher or, barring that, at least teachers from the same lineage or school. That seems like excellent advice but I am not able to travel to the nearest temple to me for a variety of reasons. As a result, I wade through responses that are coming from people who might be Zen Buddhists, Theravada Buddhists, non-Buddhists, and, with some regret for having to say this, people who have no flippin' idea what their talking about, without any way of knowing who is who. I do understand that experience is the greatest teacher but experience takes time and the truth is, my health is failing faster than anticipated and I don't have a great deal of that commodity left.

I had naively hoped that the 'awesome' and 'insightful' buttons would help me wade through the flotsam and jetsam but there are some real problems with that method that I hadn't anticipated. Shared illusions are certainly possible... but there are things that I've experienced that I've seen someone write about that goes without a single 'insightful' followed by someone refuting their idea that gets a half dozen. Honestly, I could care less about being 'right'. I've been right many times before and it's highly overrated. The problem is, if I'm wrong, let me abandon the idea immediately...but there's no way of verifying that some popular post is also a accurate post.

So, for me and any other newcomers to the site, how would you long term members recommend for us to make the use of NB to move forward with as little confusion, misguidance and missteps as possible?

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Comments

  • CittaCitta Veteran

    Without wanting to sound like a wet blanket i think you may be asking too much of an online forum which covers all schools and has in its membership everyone from neophytes to Buddhist teachers.

    Confusion, misguidance and missteps come with the territory.

    You might be more comfortable in one of the forums that deal mainly with a single tradition.

    yagrChaz
  • yagryagr Veteran

    @Citta said:
    Without wanting to sound like a wet blanket i think you may be asking too much of an online forum which covers all schools and has in its membership everyone from neophytes to Buddhist teachers.

    Confusion, misguidance and missteps come with the territory.

    You might be more comfortable in one of the forums that deal mainly with a single tradition.

    Thanks for responding Citta. Hmm. I would love it if the forum did not come complete with the confusion, etc., which btw, was not a denigration of the site - just the nature of the beast. But this site does have value. I'm just looking to get as much value out of it as possible.

    As an example, I have a handsaw. Today I cut fence posts, carpet, pvc pipe and tile. I cut the fence posts with the handsaw, a utility knife for the carpet, a hack saw for the pvc pipe and the truth is, I shattered the tile accidentally. That my hand saw wasn't the right tool for every cutting job I did today does not make it useless.

    I know that NB is not going to be able to be all things to me - but it does have value. Perhaps a better question might be, what benefits do you get from your participation on the forum and what is NB a poor substitute for on your path?

  • CittaCitta Veteran

    Its not a substitute for anything on my path..I am a member of a large squabbling, supportive, real world Sangha.

    The benefits I get is being made to think...

    yagranataman
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    It has been a long-term problem in discussions that people from the various traditions attempt to discuss issues based on experiences in their traditions. While I don't think there is a "right" tradition, I cannot agree with some perspectives on certain topics. On the one hand, it has helped broaden my experiences with other than Theravada Buddhist principles and practices, but at the same time I have learned to filter out certain posters who are seeing the Buddhist world totally different than my experiences spending time and then living in Thailand. It isn't that they're wrong and I'm right, but it's sort of like different doctors tackling a medical issues differently, and the patient attempting to mix treatments.

    Although I don't read many Buddhist books now, I did in the past, and that gave me a decent grasp of Theravada Buddhism. So having a decent background through reading has been a big help to me.

    Citta mentioned other forums. This is probably the only forum I have stayed with for more than a few months. Frankly, quite a few of the forums are terribly aggressive. We have our little spats here, but they are little...and in the long run probably help get Buddhist issues discussed more thoroughly than if everyone was constantly prim and proper. I'm not saying there aren't some other good forums out there, and from time to time I search a few of them on specific topics, but NB is quite a comfortable place with a couple of good moderators.

    When you talk about a post being "accurate" or not, what does that mean to you? The fact that some interpretation is given by some particular teacher doesn't mean it is the "right" or only interpretation, or that it perfectly fits some issue you are dealing with. The key, IMHO, is to bring all the wisdom you can muster together and develop a sense for what works...for YOU. It ultimately doesn't matter what works for Jack or Bill or Vince. It only matter what works for you. What works for each other person is only a guideline.

    BTW, I think you're fitting in here very nicely! Stick around!

    yagrfederica
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2014

    @yagr, I will tell you how it is with me;
    I began with Buddhism around 20 years ago. Tbh, I actually forget how long ago it was; but anyway, when I first began, I threw myself headlong with a fervoured passion into learning everything and anything I could, about what it took to 'be Buddhist'.
    Boy, was I in for a shock....

    To begin with, I started by absorbing information - actually, anything in literature I could get my hands on - and found that it was mainly - if not exclusively - from the Mahayana Tradition.

    What got me started was "The Tibetan Book of Living & Dying", and then I was given the 'Awakening' trilogy, by Lama Surya Das, which was followed by 'cave in the snow', a couple of books by Pema Chodron, "You don't have to sit on the floor" by Jim Pym and other books, some by HH the DL, and others which I now shamefully forget.

    Wanting to gain a different perspective, I began participating on a Theravada forum - and boy, the going got heavy. To begin with, literature available is mainly written by well-known and much-lauded Monks, but they're extremely focused, serious-minded and quite wordy.
    Their literature is excellent, and sublimely informative; but it doesn't compare in proliferation or general popularity, to literature I have mentioned. And it lacks any humour. Which to me, is like nectar to a bee....

    And thus it was that I came to sitting on the fence;
    I liked Mahayana for its clear, occasionally amusing, humane and touching approach; but I simply could not get some of the dogma through my head, and can't accept certain things they expound.

    I like Theravada for its clear, no-nonsense, basic, down to earth "it is like it is, and this is what it is" 'message', but it's too sombre, serious and analytical to the nth degree for my poor simple little head. And I'm speaking as the idiot some village is looking for....

    Fundamentally, I would say I'm Theravada - but I do adopt some 'Mahayana' methodology and incorporate some teachings which clearly overlap and conjoin.

    In 2005, I joined this site. it was then, still relatively embryonic, and the member face was different to the way it is now; but I was approached by the founder to become a Moderator.... I was stunned, to be frank.
    What the hell did I know? How could I possibly be a Moderator on a Buddhist forum, I who knew so little?

    Then, after a while, this idiot took to knowing one thing:
    The 4 Noble truths, the EightFold path and the 5 precepts are common to just about every tradition - and study, absorption, comprehension and acceptance of those alone, can be a lifetime's work.
    They sound easy - but really, consider just how many of them we sincerely, mindfully and consciously incorporate, as a regular habit, day in day out, into our daily comings and goings? How many of the 'spokes of the wheel' do we truly deeply understand...?
    Now, over time, I've heard and learnt much more.... but you know, I'm still the forum doofus in many areas of Buddhism.
    There are some discussions which still leave me in "uh...?" mode.
    I simply cannot - and therefore, will not - launch myself into participation of such discussions. But I can tell when its becoming exhausted; people start going round in circles, and struggling with the discussion, because it gets repetitive, and heated.
    That's my cue! :D

    My personal advice to you would be to read whatever you can lay your hands on, and find the common thread.
    I don't mean. 'cherry-pick' but be selective about what resonates; it's all passed on as truth, but you must decide if it's YOUR truth.
    In the meantime, get the 4 Noble truths, the Eightfold path and the 5 precepts well and truly tucked under your belt; that in and of itself, will be a monumental, yet rewarding, educational and immensely satisfying achievement.
    Let me know when you get there.... I've barely scratched the surface!

    yagrlobsterpommesetorangesanataman
  • yagryagr Veteran

    @vinlyn - thank so much. I failed to mention that over the years I have visited other forums and I found, as you have, that they have a tendency to get very aggressive at times and as a result, I didn't feel like it was a very good fit for me.

    By accurate, I wasn't talking so much about interpretations... well, I suppose I was. For instance, I recently posted something which referenced Spiderman. I believe what I wrote implicitly. It is my interpretation of the self which is a major point to get right in my opinion. I realize I may be wrong. No one set me straight though - nor did anyone agree...the post was pretty much ignored. Please don't take that to mean that I think ever post I write should be remarked upon - because I certainly do not, but I REALLY don't want to mislead anyone myself.

    If it is wrong view, I'd like to be corrected - but how much weight should I give the responses? If Citta says, "Wow, you nailed it!" and you say, "You should abandon that thinking immediately!" what on earth do I do with such conflicting opinions? Too, if someone else had posted it instead of me - what does that tell me? They might agree with me and we're both wrong - or both right.

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    But I think that's part of life...knowing that sometimes we will be wrong or make the wrong decision. It's universal. You just continue to learn and evolve.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2014

    Buddhism is a religion of the mind; it encourages examination, analysis, scrutiny, research and inquiry.

    If it immediately makes sense to you,and resonates, then it is True, for you.
    If there is some aspect you need to research further, because you're not quite sure, then avail yourself of every medium available, to clarify that question to your personal satisfaction.

    If it makes no sense at all, do as above; but if you are still undecided, after a while - stop. Leave it aside. You didn't die when you knew nothing about it, you won't die now you've discovered it but can't fathom it.

    Always, but always ask yourself:
    How helpful is this to my practice?
    Would having an answer, here and now, or in the future, improve my 'Buddhist essence'?

    Invariably, the answer is 'no'.
    But if it enriches your personal progress, and increases your knowledge of what you're up to, then it won't have been time wasted.
    Even not understanding, is a form of knowledge in itself - and there is no shame in saying "I don't know" to something.

    vinlyn
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited April 2014

    What would you do with conflicting opinions in the flesh world ?
    You would presumably sift them..
    I think the point is @yagr, Buddhadharma is something you do not something you believe.

    Its is much more about upaya " skillful means" than it is about doctrine .

    The skillful means are very similar in all tradtions.

    Mindfulness of Breathing for example.

    When folk are practising that there are no disagreements ( except minor technical ones )..

    Its when we start on beliefs and diet and politics and lifestyle choices that warring groups form...

    lobsterpommesetoranges
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    I think 'Warring groups' is a bit strong; but dissent and disagreement; that's part of being human. And we often get away with a lot more, in our responses on here, than we might if we were face-to-face with the very people we're arguing with. ;)

  • Aspiring_BuddhistAspiring_Buddhist Seeker of the Buddha Within WA Veteran

    @yagr Your post made me realize how lucky it was I stumbled onto this forum.

    A few months ago when I decided to pursue Buddhism, I think I typed "Buddhist forums" or something like that into Google, and New Buddhist popped up. My first thought "PERFECT!"

    My second thought was wondering how to get that Buddhist arcade game that is on the homepage...

    I haven't visited other forums. NB is so comfortable. Barring a few heated subjects every now-and-then, most people are polite and well-reasoned in their responses. I imagine NB as a cafeteria table where anyone can sit down, as long as they're respectful, and seek answers to their questions.

    For me, NB is an invaluable resource, due to the diversity of beliefs its members hold. If I wanted to, yes, I could become incredibly rigid and try to be a Buddhist by the strictest definition of the (Your Buddhism Source Here).

    But...it wouldn't please me. I've lived my life (all 27 short years of it) by my own very narrow definition of priorities. I am very enthusiastic about Buddhism - don't get me wrong - but I don't want to exchange one narrow view for another.

    After all, if there were only ONE WAY to achieve enlightenment, we wouldn't have the different branches of Buddhism.

    Ah...thinking out loud again.

    NB found a place in our lives when we chose to become part of it. Mostly we ask questions or seek insight into our problems, be they Buddhist-related or not. NB can not only convey knowledge, but experience (wisdom) too.

    vinlyn
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2014

    Perusing another site, I came across this post from one of its members; it sums up my personal attitude to practice, very well, bearing in mind particularly, what I stated about the sombre, humourless attribute of Theravada:

    _It can be helpful, I feel, to remember that the Buddha taught the Middle Way, and tht the extremes that are being ascribed to Theravada practice are fairly severe interpretations of the practice, IMO. There are countless examples of the middle path, including the simile of the musical instrument, strung too loosely, it won't play, strung too tightly, the string breaks. If you "see some flowers blooming or kids playing" and can't see Metta in this, or can't see aspects of Dhamma in this, then it may be that you're tightening the string too much. Even the Brahmaviharas, to me, are a practice designed to cultivate a sense of goodwill, and balance as we experience the world. _

    _ There is nothing in Theravada that I've experienced, or in the life of the Buddha as depicted in the Canon, that suggests that the practice involves the "stamping out" of anything. My sense is that we cultivate a wisdom and mindfulness for wordly phenomena, and work to eradicate unhealthy or unskillful attachments to it, but there need not be any sense of angst or failure in all of this. Rather, sympathetic joy, and equanimity, play a part in keeping the practice in balance, and in this sense, we need not ever grow weary, joyless, or disenchanted with what the Buddha offered as his path and practice for life._

    _

    I can go with that.

    jayne
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2014

    To add, completely off topic:
    This quote/italic facility is seriously beginning to do my head in....

    I edited the above post 4 times, and blow me, it's still not right. Grrrrr!!!

  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran

    @yagr said:
    but there's no way of verifying that some popular post is also a accurate post.

    I think you just summed up the whole of the internet! :)

  • ZeroZero Veteran

    @yagr said:

    Honestly, I could care less about being 'right'. I've been right many times before and it's highly overrated. The problem is, if I'm wrong, let me abandon the idea immediately...but there's no way of verifying that some popular post is also a accurate post.

    In which case, the 'problem if you're wrong' translates as a 'care to be right'.
    I think that it doesn't matter what others say or what information is presented - I think understanding is subjective and in many ways is akin to a personal journey.

  • CittaCitta Veteran

    Which accurately expresses the culturally prevailing point of view @Zero.

    But the Buddha said that he was describing objective truths.

  • ZeroZero Veteran

    @Citta said:
    But the Buddha said that he was describing objective truths.

    Didn't he deal with suffering and the cessation of suffering?
    Both seem subjective?
    The Buddha's truth, if it can be a truth in this sense, seems to stem from enlightenment which is outside of description within this logic system - thus can it be said to be rooted in objectivity? From the point of view of the 'reasonable man' or from no point of view?

    My point is that understanding is subjective - the message may be whatever, words, song, a sunny day, whatever - the connections seem most firmly held in our minds and therefore on a question of 'who should I listen to?' I think my answer is, 'It doesn't matter' as I think the mind listens to the most suitable connections rather than following an objectively assessable hymn sheet.

  • CittaCitta Veteran

    He said that experiencing phenomena as dukkha was a subjective matter...

    1st Noble Truth.

    But that the means to disable that dukkha -making processes function was objective, and as far as humanity is concerned universal...

    3rd Noble Truth.

  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran

    @yagr -- One of the most dismal discoveries in Buddhism is that it really is all about you. There you were, minding your own business, trotting along imagining you were a "Buddhist," basking in one sangha or another, soaking up sutras/suttas, getting one ritual or another nailed down, and gradually building up one capacity or another. It was all so helpful and supportive and comforting and improved .... until one night, in the middle of the night, perhaps, you looked up and there was nothing but the bedroom ceiling or you sneezed and suddenly wondered where all those beliefs and hopes and comforts went while you were sneezing. Up until that moment, Buddhism was important ... but when suddenly the importance evaporated, what was the importance of Buddhism?

    I am not suggesting that such a moment has to occur or even that many come to such a point. But I do imagine that, for those who experience it, it can be a dismal kick in the ass. Everything going along more or less smoothly and then ... WTF?! The experience has a way of sending anyone back to square-one.

    Square one is where you made a choice. It wasn't anyone else's choice, it was just your choice. Your choice, your courage, your patience, your doubt ... no big deal, you made choices in the past... some worked out, some not. It was just a choice. Your choice and you own it. No philosophy or religion or sangha or sutra or ritual owns it ... you own it. Whether others agree or disagree is not the point ... you chose the scrambled eggs from the menu, not the fried. And no one can improve or prove your choices ... only you can do that.

    Discovering the obvious is never entirely pleasant and the discovery that Buddhism is your responsibility is no different. It can be confusing and scary: Where is the applause when there's no one to applaud? Where is the comfort and hope and belief when ... well ... it's just you? Were you just wasting your time with all the frou-frou applause meter stuff collected in the past?

    And the answer is that no, you weren't just wasting your time. Your appreciation of the tassels of "Buddhism" may have been a bit over-enthusiastic and skewed, but back at square one you may find yourself with the skills that are less noteworthy in the praise they receive and more practical in subduing the eek factor. Sit down, erect the spine, shut up and focus the mind ... sure, you've heard it all before, but now there is more usefulness in it and less snake oil. Ease up on the praise and blame, however smoothly camouflaged they may be.

    Is there a goal out there somewhere, an attainment just beyond the next hill? A hundred people may say "no goal" and another hundred propose "an end to suffering." That's their business. Your business is whatever you make it ... as for example the bedroom ceiling. Bit by bit, the loneliness is addressed in practice, whatever practice you choose. Bit by bit there is some recognition that there is something more compelling than the agreement of others... an agreement that is honest and has nothing to do with agreement. Everyone is at square one all the time. It's nothing sexy and neither is it scary. It's just the way things are -- the way you are -- and scrambled eggs are pretty tasty.

    FWIW.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    I can only share my own experience, of course. My comment yesterday was coming from my point of view (of course, lol) and how I experienced my own growing in my practice along with getting use out of this page.

    I have a teacher, but I am very blessed that even though he lives too far for me to travel to see him with any sort of regular basis (and the fact he is out of the country 6 months a year) that he travels here several times to meet with us. You might considering, if you are able, to do a little legwork (and that can mean emails and phone calls of course) and see if you can find a teacher who has the ability to travel. My teacher runs the main sangha from one city, but we have 3 satellite sanghas and he travels to all of them. We are lucky it works out that way. But we wouldn't have known until someone took the initiative and asked. He emailed, the teacher agreed to come (only knowing maybe 3-5 people would be there) and after our group leader put up posters around town, 50 people showed up. So, you never know what you might put together :)

    Prior to having a teacher, I didn't know what the heck I was doing. I tried everything I could find, trying to get somewhere, not knowing I couldn't try to get somewhere without it backfiring. I ended up quickly confused, disenchanted and with no idea where to turn. Then I saw the poster, and it changed everything.

    Early in my practice, I was trying to reconcile what I learned from my teacher, with this place. It didn't work so well, obviously. I got frustrated, and in the fall I quit coming to the site for several months. I just needed a break because all I was getting out of the site was aggravation.

    When I came back my frame of mind was better and my practice much stronger. So now I am more able to focus on my work with my teacher. I still get a lot out of this place, and especially with a lot of lessons from individuals on the board. Sometimes those are simply suggestions I have met with resistance but really got use out of when I really thought about them. Sometimes, it came simply in having to practice patience, or the skill of logging out, LOL. But I find it now compliments my practice pretty well as long as I don't take it too seriously. When I let go of trying to find understanding for my practice in this forum, the understanding found me much easier. The stuff i know I won't understand, I will skim or sometimes ignore all together. Not out of disrespect but just because it doesn't apply to my practice.

    I think it's important to realize forums are a tool, like anything else, but they cannot define or make up your practice. This forum a place you can bring your practice, but you cannot get your practice from it.

    Even if you cannot travel to meet with a teacher, you might get a lot of value in simply emailing or talking via phone with someone. Most teachers I have met seem to have a practice outline set up for new students, they can tell you what to read or the basics of their practices and you can decide if it works for you. Then you have a direction and something to work out that you know works. It helps make sense of this place.

  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited April 2014

    Everyone is not at square one all the time.

    Such a sentiment may sit well in terms of current reactions to authority figures and tall poppies, but the fact is that it is not a grid of squares..if an analogy is needed then that of a ladder is just as apposite and just as partial and ultimately just as misleading.

    " Sit down, erect the spine, shut up and focus the mind.." there we can agree.

  • ZeroZero Veteran

    @Citta said:
    But that the means to disable that dukkha -making processes function was objective, and as far as humanity is concerned universal...

    3rd Noble Truth.

    The cessation of Dukkha requires a genuine understanding of the causes of suffering - the path to it therefore seems subjective?
    Cessation is nibanna.
    As of nibanna, nothing is eternal or ended.
    It is difficult therefore considering where the objective observer would sit in order to make a determination.
    My proposition is that the objective and subjective are our attempt to provide some attempt at social synergy however they are born of our overall view which seems to be framed by our human faculties.
    Granted, I'm pushing the issue back rather than dealing with it head on so to speak but there is the point I think - it seems always dealt with head on as a personal matter of understanding and thus my advice is to concentrate on the actual 'understanding' at play rather than on another (beguilingly objective) assessment.

  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited April 2014

    The objective observer would sit nowhere..objectivity and subjectivity having dissolved into Original Mind.

    Its important to distinguish between a conceptual framework and skillful means...

  • ZeroZero Veteran

    @Citta said:
    The objective observer would sit nowhere..objectivity and subjectivity having dissolved into Original Mind.

    Its important to distinguish between a conceptual framework and skillful means...

    I think we're agreed that classical expositions end so in that sense the objective means the same as the subjective (whatever that may be and to the degree that they are each quantifiable to any degree.)
    And this is an issue - the next bit ' dissolve into Original Mind' is either taken on faith/imagined or is experienced/known.

    Not sure I understand the point on conceptual framework and skilful means unless you mean that a fictitious objective position is skilful for purposes of realising/working with the conceptual framework (or say a broad pragmatism) in which case, I think we're agreed there also as this position is in most situations preferable to a fictitious subjective position.

    And as I type this, I wonder if we aren't saying the same thing but you're calling it objective and me subjective where in essence we both seem to be attributing a fiction to what may be subjective or objective outside of cessation?

  • CittaCitta Veteran

    I would prefer 'skilful means ' to ' fiction ' :) , But that might just be me being picky...or over sensitive..

    But perhaps we are saying the same thing.

  • NevermindNevermind Bitter & Hateful Veteran

    @Citta said:
    Buddhadharma is something you do not something you believe.

    If you didn't believe it you wouldn't do it, silly goose.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Let's not make the discussion too convoluted - we are trying, after all, to still the qualms in @yagr's mind, not complicate things! Personal opinions are great, people - please let's not turn this thread into a debate.

  • NevermindNevermind Bitter & Hateful Veteran

    Why not?

  • VastmindVastmind Memphis, TN Veteran
    edited April 2014

    How best to use it?

    IMO, as a laid back Buddhist hang out spot. .. :) ..

    Educate yourself...but laugh, learn, and cry with others.

    Also, the crowds come and go, and you'll get to know who's who and who does what and how after awhile.....

    Citta
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Good one, @Nevermind.... I nearly fell for it. :p

  • NevermindNevermind Bitter & Hateful Veteran

    Did we read the same OP, Federica?

    The nature of the topic is the cacophony of voices on this site and how to wade through them. Debating is a valid method. Maybe the only valid method.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    Yes, but when we start debating every term in a sentence, the main point of the OP is lost, which is how do you use the site/how do you think the site can be best used and how can one deal with the confusion that often comes because of the variety of voices. He didn't ask for debate on the definition of every term someone happens to write. Some users just like to argue with certain other users, and find a way to pick apart every single thing they write rather than attempt to contribute to a meaningful/helpful discussion that might actually help the OP answer his questions.

    Citta
  • @yagr said:
    So, for me and any other newcomers to the site, how would you long term members recommend for us to make the use of NB to move forward with as little confusion, misguidance and missteps as possible?

    :clap:

    Well . . . the capacity to listen, which your question illustrates, is fundamental. Most people expound. Did anyone notice . . . :buck:

    You must also listen to your responses and how they reflect from and on you. If you can, listen with your heart as if it is your head. In other words kindly, openly and with compassion for your, mine and everyone's ignorance . . .

    Isn't that right Mr Cushion?

  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran

    The Zen teacher Rinzai once said approximately to the monks in his care: "Your whole problem is that you do not trust yourselves enough."

    And, I imagine, might have added, "... and what you do trust proves itself endlessly untrustworthy."

  • CittaCitta Veteran

    So the nameless straight men and bit part players were right then weren't they ?

    I can imagine no higher praise than being told that someone does not trust themselves.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    @yagr I'll try to simply better, i did not see your revised questions earlier.

    First, how does NB help me? First, there are some people who are on the same, or close to the same, path as I am on with my teacher. I find their experience and knowledge complimentary to what I learn from my teacher and my practice. It is most helpful. Second, The more I learn about terminologies and so on, the better I can say "oh, that's a zen thing, or a theravadin thing..." and I can read with interest, but realize it doesn't have to confuse me because I can identify the path it is associated with. It takes time to get there, but it happens :) You will see that "Oh, ok, Citta is answering from a Vajrayana point of view, Jeffrey is answering from a Mahayana point of view and Jason is answering from a Theravadin point of view." It doesn't mean your view is right or wrong, it just means they are approaching the question or problem from their understanding of their path. It's more confusing if you aren't sure which path you want to be on, for sure, lol.

    The only thing I am cautious of is taking what I read here as gospel, so to speak. I find learning at every turn around here, but I am careful not to attempt to apply everyone's points of view to my own practice. Just because someone here says something, doesn't mean they are understanding it "correctly" as far as how my teacher would explain it. Often times, they compliment each other but since my teacher is the one my devotion belongs to, and since he knows me and works with me, if I get confused, I talk to him about it, even if through email. He will know how to explain it in a way I understand that works within his teachings.

    Cittalobster
  • CittaCitta Veteran

    Well said.

  • First, how does NB help me?

    Sorry @karasti meant to click on insightful not LOL :o

    karasti
  • NevermindNevermind Bitter & Hateful Veteran

    @karasti said:
    Yes, but when we start debating every term in a sentence, the main point of the OP is lost, which is how do you use the site/how do you think the site can be best used and how can one deal with the confusion that often comes because of the variety of voices.

    Clarifying terms is counterproductive to understanding?

    He didn't ask for debate on the definition of every term someone happens to write.

    He didn't seem to, no.

    Some users just like to argue with certain other users, and find a way to pick apart every single thing they write rather than attempt to contribute to a meaningful/helpful discussion that might actually help the OP answer his questions.

    Are these users understanding things better by clarifying terms or are they just picking things apart for no reason?

  • NevermindNevermind Bitter & Hateful Veteran
    edited April 2014

    @karasti said:
    The only thing I am cautious of is taking what I read here as gospel, so to speak. I find learning at every turn around here, but I am careful not to attempt to apply everyone's points of view to my own practice. Just because someone here says something, doesn't mean they are understanding it "correctly" as far as how my teacher would explain it. Often times, they compliment each other but since my teacher is the one my devotion belongs to, and since he knows me and works with me, if I get confused, I talk to him about it, even if through email. He will know how to explain it in a way I understand that works within his teachings.

    He wrote that he didn't have a teacher, or that it was likely there would be one anytime soon, I believe. In any case, is it necessary to take the teachers word "as gospel"?

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    Depends on how each person sees it. I think it's normal for things to wander as conversation takes place. But sometimes there is nit-picking, too. The only person who knows which it is is the person who is bringing it up. Clarification is one thing, nit picking is different. The thing I notice is some users contribute only (or mostly) one liners questioning other users and never (or rarely) actually offer their own opinions/suggestions/etc. It's almost as if they look for things to pick apart by particular users, without regard for whether it contributes to the OP's question or discussion.

    CittaChaz
  • NevermindNevermind Bitter & Hateful Veteran

    @karasti said:
    Depends on how each person sees it. I think it's normal for things to wander as conversation takes place. But sometimes there is nit-picking, too. The only person who knows which it is is the person who is bringing it up. Clarification is one thing, nit picking is different. The thing I notice is some users contribute only (or mostly) one liners questioning other users and never (or rarely) actually offer their own opinions/suggestions/etc. It's almost as if they look for things to pick apart by particular users, without regard for whether it contributes to the OP's question or discussion.

    You seem to have only reiterated your earlier claim and have not answered my query. That's fine of course.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    I am sure there are many users who understand things better when asking for clarification. I do not believe you are one of those users.
    As far as my teacher, do I take every word he says as gospel? No, but I don't have to. He doesn't speak just to hear himself talk. I know yagr doesn't have a teacher. I wasn't telling him he had to get one. I was answering his questions...unlike you. In any case, as I said in the other thread, I'm done going about derailing threads with you today. Carry on.

  • ChazChaz The Remarkable Chaz Anywhere, Everywhere & Nowhere Veteran

    @Nevermind said:
    He wrote that he didn't have a teacher, or that it was likely there would be one anytime soon, I believe. In any case, is it necessary to take the teachers word "as gospel"?

    That depends.

    In a Vajrayana setting, you don't necessarily treat the teacher (guru) as a source of "gospel". However, in that case you taken vows of samaya, which means that you are promising to follow the Guru's instruction. Don't like that condition? Don't take the vow.

    Otherwise, take the teacher as you will. It's your path.

  • NevermindNevermind Bitter & Hateful Veteran

    @karasti said:
    I am sure there are many users who understand things better when asking for clarification. I do not believe you are one of those users.

    Wow, seriously? You could not possibly know. This is merely a belief or prejudice of yours. The only way around prejudice and personal beliefs is to ask questions and get to know the people or issues better. That may require some debate.

    As far as my teacher, do I take every word he says as gospel? No, but I don't have to.

    Indeed, you don't have to.

  • ChazChaz The Remarkable Chaz Anywhere, Everywhere & Nowhere Veteran

    @yagr said:
    I've been here on NB now for about six weeks and I'd like to ask for some direction as to how one might best use the site.

    I'm with Citta in that your expectations may be a bit out of line.

    There's a certain benefit in finding a consistant source of learning and practice.

    I understand you can't travel, but why not try a correspondence course? I used CC's to fullfill certain study requirements my teacher has for his formal students, but anyone can take them. There are other groups that offer remote learning opportunities as well.

    The advantage is you won't be getting any conflicting, confusing information and it will give you something to practice with.

    As Citta correctly points out this is something you do. It's not about belief. I'd add that it isn't about what you know, either.

  • NevermindNevermind Bitter & Hateful Veteran
    edited April 2014

    @Chaz said:
    ... in that case you've taken vows of samaya, which means that you are promising to follow the Guru's instruction. Don't like that condition? Don't take the vow.

    Religions are all about making promises. But do promises need to be kept, or rather is anyone required to keep them? No, of course not.

  • ChazChaz The Remarkable Chaz Anywhere, Everywhere & Nowhere Veteran
    edited April 2014

    @Nevermind said:
    Religions are all about making promises. But do promises need to be kept, or rather is anyone required to keep them? No, of course not.

    No. It's the nature of a promise that it be kept. That's why it's a promise. If you don't keep a promise, then your word is worth nothing. It's a question of honor and respect. If you break a promise you've given to someone, you neither honor nor respect that person. Or yourself, for that matter.

    So, when I promised to love, honor, and obey my wife, that's precisely what I've done for 20 years. When I promised to follow my Guru's instructions it's been my intention to do exactly that. Both types of promise-keeping come with a certain beneficial karma. Breaking them results in harmful karma.

    But then, it's your karma. Do with it as you see fit.

    federicaanataman
  • It would seem that way at first for anyone new to a site. With anything it all depends on how much you put in to it. Keep in mind though that you have everything that you need already. There are no gaps to fill. Buddhism is practice. Take everything with a grain of salt, and take your time. From my own experience, I have only seen good outcomes in others who have kept at it. Good luck and Welcome.

  • BhikkhuJayasaraBhikkhuJayasara Bhikkhu Veteran
    edited April 2014

    I take long breaks LOL...

    As well as taking anything on an internet forum with a grain of salt.. the far majority of stuff I read and comment in on buddhist forums ( I peruse this, dhammawheel, reddit /buddhism and a few others to a lesser extent) have pretty much zero impact on my practice.

    The "real" dhamma education i get online is from buddhist websites and youtube videos by monastics. This covers about 90% of my internet time devoted to buddhism.

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