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NeuroDharma "Understanding Karma and reducing the Drama when practicing the Dharma "

ShoshinShoshin No one in particularNowhere Special Veteran
edited June 2014 in Buddhism Today

Kia Ora,

Rick Hanson coined the term NeuroDharma ie, where neuroscience and BuddhaDharma meet...

Just wondering if any of you when meditating have used visualisation (involving feelings/sensations and imagination) of the brain parts to get some realisation of what's happening when emotions arise ( Energy in Motion =emotion)...It's quite fascinating, exploring the brain's function from the inside so to speak....even if it is in a 'sense' a mixture of just imagination and virtual reality...

I found this short youtube clip By Dr John Kenworthy quite interesting....

Quote

Now that you know how anxiety happens in your brain we can pay attention to how we deliberately use our pre-frontal cortex to turn off an inappropriate anxiety response once a threat has passed.

Metta Shoshin :)

Comments

  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    Yes.

    Pain in the brain can be questioned, 'talked to', asked about its causes etc. Just as mental states such as anger have physical sensations which are easier to be aware of and loosen/relax.

    Concentrating on chakra points I have never found of much use. They can have effects but not much interest personally . . .

    Dandelionanataman
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran

    Awesome little video, really useful. A person could delve deeply into this orientation to emotion and benefit tremendously. Just being aware that the 'anxiety expressway' is a predictable process can put the anxiety in a more useful perspective.

    I just luuuuuuuurvvvve asking myself (whoever that is) WHO it is that is aware of the anxiety expressway, don't you :D ?

    In her book "My Stroke of Insight" Jill Bolte Taylor (a brain anatomist) talked about a cycle of anger. I am not re-telling it perfectly, but here goes; apparently the neurochemicals squirted out in response to a (perceived) assault stay intact only for 90 seconds, after that, they degrade into their constituents.

    Her point was to give yourself at least 90 seconds before you do or say something stupid (within reason of course). By then, the neuropeptides stimulating your adrenals etc etc will have degraded and be gone, therefore allowing your good ole hippocampus et al to process and plan a more appropriate response (appropriate as opposed to punching someone or shouting profanities).

    So for that 90 second interval, you are at the mercy of the neuropeptides. But you CAN wait them out, and it's not very long.

    I would have the 'perception' of being angry for the entirety of my shift at work, but using mindfulness I discovered I was intermittently angry and then only for a relatively short period of time. So I'd grit my teeth and cause fresh anger remembering what pissed me off an hour ago, even though I'm just sitting there eating dinner. Since the brain automatically fills in the holes (like with optical illusions) I had the sensation of non-stop irritation, but it was not true at all.

    In fact, I was causing fresh anger just remembering what pissed me off MORE often than the dork who was acting out in my face caused anger.

    I find this fascinating. I am torturing myself more than anybody else could. I didn't realize I was doing it, and like in the video, the anxiety is felt quite a bit AFTER the anxiety expressway is initiated. Same for anger, I'll bet, or for any strong emotion tough to control.

    JeffreyShoshinBuddhadragonlobster
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    Kia Ora@Hamsaka,

    It's one of life's many paradoxes, it would seem, we are our own worst enemy....

    I haven't read her book but watching Jill on youtube explain what happened when she was having a stroke (describing the present moment as it bursts onto the stage) , is mind blowing...

    I first saw her on Symphony of Science

    Metta Shoshin :)

  • BuddhadragonBuddhadragon Ehipassiko & Carpe Diem Samsara Veteran

    @Hamsaka said:
    I would have the 'perception' of being angry for the entirety of my shift at work, but using mindfulness I discovered I was intermittently angry and then only for a relatively short period of time. So I'd grit my teeth and cause fresh anger remembering what pissed me off an hour ago, even though I'm just sitting there eating dinner. Since the brain automatically fills in the holes (like with optical illusions) I had the sensation of non-stop irritation, but it was not true at all.
    In fact, I was causing fresh anger just remembering what pissed me off MORE often than the dork who was acting out in my face caused anger.

    To anyone interested, there are some wonderful books dealing with neuroscience and Buddhism: the classic is Daniel Goleman's "Destructive Emotions," then Paul Ekman's "Emotional Awareness" and Jon Kabat-Zinn's "The Mind's own physician," all written in colaboration with his HH the Dalai Lama. These books are transcriptions of Mind and Life Institute conferences.
    To those who might not know, the Mind and Life Institute brings together scientists and Buddhist scholars, especially those related to the fields of neuroscience, psychology and any field that contributes to the creation of mental well-being.
    Incredibly enough, many modern scientific discoveries seem to confirm the tenets of Abhidhamma or Buddhist psychology.

    @Hamsaka: My excuses for re-quoting myself here, but the fact that you mention above has a scientific explanation that I have cited before.
    Psychotherapist and profiler Paul Ekman explains that when a negative emotion is triggered, our brain gets stuck and bombards us with delusional information that only serves to stoke the fuel of the negative emotion.
    For a moment, you can only remember information that fits that negative emotion. The brain gets temporarily blocked and you are totally blinded to information that could help you view the situation in a positive frame of mind.
    Mindfulness becomes crucial at this moment, so that with the awareness that you're in the grip of a negative emotion, you can hopefully choose how to enact your response instead of getting carried thoughtlessly away.

    HamsakaJeffreyShoshin
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran

    @dharmamom; isn't it fascinating?

    Not that long ago, people with seizure disorder (epilepsy) were believed to be possessed by demons, then scientific inquiry laid out a truthful explanation that literally changed the world for people with seizure disorder.

    To a similar degree, our worlds have changed by Dan Goleman, Kabbat-Zin et all, and the neuroscientists in Michigan (?? was it?) who put llamas and experienced meditators in the fMRI and mapped their consciousnesses. Imagine (aka John Lennon) a world where a significant majority of people perceived their subjective emotional lives in a radically different way, the same exact radical difference between demonic possession versus neurological dysfunction causing illness.

    I'm reading The Happiness Trap (highly recommend, it is 'mindfulness' under a different name) and learning a bit about ACT therapy, which is the theoretical basis for The Happiness Trap. The author calls being caught up in the grip of a negative emotion (or any emotion) "fusion" with that emotion. That's as far as I've gotten in the book.

    Too bad there is so much 'secondary gain' to be had. If you intimidate people with your temper outbursts, it's pretty easy to get your way whenever you want. One of the reasons very little funding went to HIV detection and treatment, at first, was that it would cost billions to update how blood banks obtain and test their sources -- it served the financial interests far more to 'allow' the public to focus their revulsion on gay men.

    BuddhadragonShoshin
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran

    What is ACT? Google turns up a pre-college entrance test also called ACT.

  • BuddhadragonBuddhadragon Ehipassiko & Carpe Diem Samsara Veteran

    @Jeffrey said:
    What is ACT? Google turns up a pre-college entrance test also called ACT.

    Was about to ask the same...

  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    Kia Ora @Hamsaka,

    Thanks...That link is quite interesting...

    Metta Shoshin :)

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    @Hamsaka said:

    Her point was to give yourself at least 90 seconds before you do or say something stupid (within reason of course). By then, the neuropeptides stimulating your adrenals etc etc will have degraded and be gone, therefore allowing your good ole hippocampus et al to process and plan a more appropriate response (appropriate as opposed to punching someone or shouting profanities).

    So for that 90 second interval, you are at the mercy of the neuropeptides. But you CAN wait them out, and it's not very long.

    Kia Ora @Hamsaka,

    It would seem that many cultures are familiar with the "Stop... Take a deep breath-count to ten-collect your thoughts" approach...Even though most of us have grown up being told this, especially when we have been cross/angry over something or with somebody, however we continually have to be reminded(or remind ourselves when we can) of this simple yet very efficient calming technique on a regular bases...One could say it's on tap, but we quite often fail to tap into it when needed...

    What I like about science (neuroscience in particular), is that for the most part it gives a clear explanation of what is happening in the brain when we are experiencing something...

    I see Buddhist mysticism (minus the mumbo jumbo) as inner science ie self exploration and neuroscience is just another tool at our disposal....

    As the saying goes..."Neurons that fire together wire together!" We just need to know where and when we should 'allow' this to happen...I guess that's where meditation comes into play....

    Metta Shoshin :)

  • BuddhadragonBuddhadragon Ehipassiko & Carpe Diem Samsara Veteran

    @Shoshin said:
    I see Buddhist mysticism (minus the mumbo jumbo) as inner science ie self exploration and neuroscience is just another tool at our disposal....

    Buddhism is a psychological system and self-help method that has been around for thousands of years.

    Shoshin
  • MeisterBobMeisterBob Mindful Agnathiest CT , USA Veteran
    edited June 2014

    @Hamsaka said:
    Awesome little video, really useful. A person could delve deeply into this orientation to emotion and benefit tremendously. Just being aware that the 'anxiety expressway' is a predictable process can put the anxiety in a more useful perspective.

    I just luuuuuuuurvvvve asking myself (whoever that is) WHO it is that is aware of the anxiety expressway, don't you :D ?

    In her book "My Stroke of Insight" Jill Bolte Taylor (a brain anatomist) talked about a cycle of anger. I am not re-telling it perfectly, but here goes; apparently the neurochemicals squirted out in response to a (perceived) assault stay intact only for 90 seconds, after that, they degrade into their constituents.

    Her point was to give yourself at least 90 seconds before you do or say something stupid (within reason of course). By then, the neuropeptides stimulating your adrenals etc etc will have degraded and be gone, therefore allowing your good ole hippocampus et al to process and plan a more appropriate response (appropriate as opposed to punching someone or shouting profanities).

    So for that 90 second interval, you are at the mercy of the neuropeptides. But you CAN wait them out, and it's not very long.

    I would have the 'perception' of being angry for the entirety of my shift at work, but using mindfulness I discovered I was intermittently angry and then only for a relatively short period of time. So I'd grit my teeth and cause fresh anger remembering what pissed me off an hour ago, even though I'm just sitting there eating dinner. Since the brain automatically fills in the holes (like with optical illusions) I had the sensation of non-stop irritation, but it was not true at all.

    In fact, I was causing fresh anger just remembering what pissed me off MORE often than the dork who was acting out in my face caused anger.

    I find this fascinating. I am torturing myself more than anybody else could. I didn't realize I was doing it, and like in the video, the anxiety is felt quite a bit AFTER the anxiety expressway is initiated. Same for anger, I'll bet, or for any strong emotion tough to control.

    Yep a "vicious circle"! Rumination. It's good to be reminded of the process. I can do it with any emotion but it seems "negative" ones work best! Lol! Thats where working on my concentration to support my ability to stay in the presen moment seems important. thanks Bob

  • anatamananataman Who needs a title? Where am I? Veteran

    You're always in the present moment @MeisterBob, concentration, effort and ability are not required ;)

  • robotrobot Veteran

    @anataman said:
    You're always in the present moment MeisterBob, concentration, effort and ability are not required ;)

    Only physically. Mentally you can be lost in the past or the future to the extent that you unaware of what is happening now. As Bob says, it takes work and discipline to stay focused on what's in front of you. If it weren't that way, meditation would be unnecessary. I thought we all agreed on that.

    Buddhadragon
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    I see Buddhist mysticism (minus the mumbo jumbo) as inner science

    Indeed.

    Mysticism and Buddhism is rife with jumbo sized mumbo because it has been around for so long. At the moment, western science is s l o w l y developing an understanding of the useful and the interesting but superstitious.

    Thus have I heard . . . in other words it is just a rumour . . . :wave: .

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