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I don't know, but I suspect that the deluded in that way would lack the discipline to meditate @dharmamom because they think that they are beyond all that..
When you read accounts of people who declare themselves enlightened or an avatar one of the characteristics is that they expect others to work hard on the cushion while they give orders.
Personally I've found that Samatha has helped with my Schizophrenia, quite often when a bout of disturbed thinking comes in I'm able to let go of it and bring my attention back to the moment. Of course I am stable on an older generation antipsychotic and SSRI.
I took up Buddhist meditation as I was looking for a way to calm my mind when my Risperidone stopped working on me. It didn't cure me I ended up in hospital a couple of times of the last three years or so but it certainly helped me from doing anything overly stupid.
My Psychiatrist at the time who was Indian and a thoroughly good man was supportive of my meditation practice.
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Weird experience... I am visiting my daughter this weekend and came here by train. Did a spot of meditation during the journey. When I interrupted it to check which station the train had stopped at, a woman next to me said, "you were meditating...." I smiled and just nodded. She replied "I could tell by your aura... it's the most glorious purple colour... "
"Oh.... wow. That's cool...." I replied..... Not a lot you can really say to that....!
Grounding is for most, based on regularity, commitment and recognition that meditation is a lifetime practice commitment. It changes. Perhaps irregular 'only in a crisis' practice is the real danger?
@namarupa said:
Depends on the person I think, but all meditation is safe in my opinion. The mind is dangerous not meditation.
Perhaps for most people, basic simple techniques are indeed nothing more than sitting peacably. However for some that is when they meet what they have been avoiding - themselves ... as you say the danger is the mind . . .
I have seen many wounded people made worse, they may have needed AA, medication, therapy. I have seen egoic teachers impress the gullible that meditation will solve everything. Instead of being referred, they were offered 'the ripening of karma' or practices that induced melt down. Others have used teachings and practices to band aid and calm their unresolved issues.
Meditation is one of a range of safety measures ...
Initially it annoyed me because the article felt like something written to get some views, but then I found this paragraph:
"Some meditation researchers, like Pacific University’s Sarah Bowen, suggest that trauma may arise because Western meditative traditions bypass the rigorous practices and intensive guidance of older meditation cultures. By treating meditation like a spiritual smoothie rather than an intense and complex practice, we run the risk of confronting meditation’s dark sides, or at least sinking into them more easily than those who have a framework of coping and recovery in place."
Which, I think, applies to a lot of people who think that "mindfulness" is something that can be put in the same basket as the stuff from "The Secret" and "how to get rich fast using spirituality" schemes.
I've meditated once after snorting a fairly big amount of cocaine. This gave me a manic episode ( pre-psychotic) wich lasted several weeks. I thought I reached Nirvana
I voluntary hospilatized myself were I refused anti-psychosis medicine. Instead I contuined my meditation practise and thats what proberly got me sane again.
So, in my opion, meditation can both damage and heal the mind. Its all about context and intention.
1
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
@iamthezenmaster said: ... So, in my opion, meditation can both damage and heal the mind. Its all about context and intention.
Meditation cannot damage your mind.
What is in your mind, regarding meditation - can damage your mind.
Misconceptions, unreal expectations and high doses of illegal drugs will damage the mind.
meditation - when followed in a well-practised and authentic way - will NOT damage the mind.
If you notice damage, it is merely exposed BY meditation.
So, in my opinion, meditation can both damage and heal the mind. Its all about context and intention.
Thanks for sharing that. Great insight based on very real experience. Would anyone be gullible enough to follow a cocaine snorting 'zen master', an alcoholic 'lama rinpoche' or a nitrous oxide taking guru like Rajneesh?
A work in progress has to display integrity and honesty. Buddhism is a complete range of practices. Context, intention and for teachers, integrity.
The wider context and unreal expectations and also very real benefits of genuine regular practice can not be underestimated.
The moment to moment unfolding awareness that @how and @genkaku allude to on the whole is a natural progression not always possible without prior experience.
@lobster are you talking about Trungpa Rinpoche? I think he was an alcoholic but also a master teacher. I would follow his teachings but not go to bed with him!! Might have a game of quarters with him though?? That might be fun.
^^^the guy on youtube is horrible. me and my friend Don could destroy him. I iz the quarters master!!
I have heard 2 stories about meditation,one related to me by a close friend,an elderly ex-schoolmaster who had since died,and the other related by the head of the True Buddha sect, in a Chinese book of his.
In the first case,my friend came into direct contact with this man who apparently became insane after practicing meditation.It is not known what sort of meditation he practised.When my friend visited him at his home after hearing that he had become severely mentally sick,he was cooking his own excrement in the living room and wafting the rising smoke all over his body.The whole house was filled with the stench of shit.Some Buddhist monks had tried to see him to help him,but they were violently beaten off.Soon after my friend's visit,the man died.It is not known if he had taken his own life.
The other case related by Mr. Lu of the True Buddha School,a woman took up meditation purely for health,not believing in anything religious.It seems that she too,became insane.
My own view is that we have to deal with the negative karma of thought,speech and act accumulated in past lives before meditating.Chinese Mahayana practitioners(Pure Land) in my area have various ways of doing this to avoid problems arising during meditation.
1
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
@Namada said:
federica said: I smiled and just nodded. She replied "I could tell by your aura... it's the most glorious purple colour... "
She obviously has the sixth sense, facinathing
so your aura is purple actually, its a symbol for peace?
I can't answer that, I don't know what the colours symbolise, or whether Purple is the colour of Peace... it seems like a nice thought for it to be, though....
I had a friend with whom I studied Shiatsu, who also claimed she could see auras... she also maintained she could feel them, and that they helped her understand a person's physical disorder, and how it affected their psyche.... I lost touch with her (she moved to Africa) but she was fascinating to talk to....
@federica
Yes, I dont know much about auras either,
but the energy/mood level of each person its easier to feel and see then colour.
I cheked it up for you, if its true or not...
Purple Auras and Spiritual Balance
If an advisor tells you that your aura is purple at the moment, this is a good thing. A purple aura (also known as violet or indigo) means that you are in a good space spiritually, and that you are close to experiencing a state of equilibrium and open awareness.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Yes, well, it seems to fit!
My good friend could see pale, pale yellow when people were happy, pink when they were peaceful and pine-green when they seemed pre-occupied.
She also described these sensations as (respectively) tingly, like pins and needles, soft like velvet and slightly rough, like fine-grade sandpaper.
She once reported she had given a shiatsu to a very good gentleman-friend and his aura had been a muddy, greeny-brown... a bit like camouflage - and it had felt sticky, like melting lard... It had been particularly emphatic and present in his pelvic area.
On impulse, she had suggested he see his doctor for a check-up, and he did so, subsequently reporting that they found a small cancerous tumour in his bladder....
So that was a positive result...
On the topic of meditation, she loved to watch other people meditating because (as she put it) their auras 'trembled with delight and sang their colours...'
Federica: "On the topic of meditation, she loved to watch other people meditating because (as she put it) their auras 'trembled with delight and sang their colours...'
One more reason to meditate, its positive for our aura, so meditation is not dangerous
I am currently studying meditation and they say that the only "safe" meditation is mindfulness/zen meditation. As in just being aware of the current moment in it's fullness. Because we are always in it anyway.
The reason behind it is that many other forms that focus or still the mind cause thoughts to come up from the subconscious. These thoughts can hold a fair amount of power and lead someone deeper into depression etc.
I think it's up to the persons level of understanding but I would be cautious.
Even breath work with me brings up some wacky stuff from the subconscious.
I did a ten day retreat meditating and most people felt heavy on about day 6. Some even left the retreat.
The teacher warned that this round happen.
So I'd say yes, without proper guidance and understanding meditation can be dangerous.
With metta
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I disagree.
Just as a knife can serve us when used properly, or cut us when used carelessly, thus meditation functions.
It ain't what it is; it's what you do with it...
@tibellus said:
Which, I think, applies to a lot of people who think that "mindfulness" is something that can be put in the same basket as the stuff from "The Secret" and "how to get rich fast using spirituality" schemes.
Long ago on a flight, when the book "The Secret" was making the best-selling lists, I noticed a woman sitting not far from me, who desperately clang to the book.
Now and then she read it, now and then she said affirmations seemingly from the book almost out loud. At least, loud enough for me to recognize them as affirmations.
She repeated the affirmations with feverish zeal and there was this air of overall desperation about her.
One thing I noticed in the Insight Timer App forum is that many people have what strikes me as very unrealistic expectations about meditation and cling to the practice with ardent zeal, as if it were "the" raft, followed by episodes where they post comments in the lines of "it's not working, I still feel sad, depressed, it's not good, I don't feel better."
I don't think it hurts. Like @federica said above, "it's what you do with it."
But whatever meditation and/or mindfulness would be supposed to do, my feeling is: the more you expect the practice to deliver, the least you feel the results.
Or maybe it simply won't change the original stuff you bring with you into the practice.
It seems to me that it simply does not agree or work with certain people.
But then, after reading all these comments by people who suffer from clinical depression, it's like they expect too much from everything they try, from life in general, and all they see is their expectations frustrated every time... mostly by themselves, in my humble opinion...
A few years ago, I started meditating for the same reasons. I thought that meditation is some sort of a Holy Grail, that it will solve all my problems. At that time I actually didn't have so many problems, it was all going inside my head. I had a good job - I didn't see it that way back then -, great friends who supported me and a lot of spare time that I spent wallowing in the mire instead of putting it to good use. And I saw that meditation didn't solve these problems. Or, at least, that's what I thought. So I completely stopped meditating as "it didn't help me".
Then some really hard issues started pouring down. I won't go into details, but at that point I realised what the true meaning of "having problems" is. Everything I built until that moment crumbled away. After trying different solutions to cope with reality, I returned to meditation/mindfulness. This time, studying it more. Studying the way it should be practiced, reading about it, listening to dharma talks etc. in such a way that I learned that I shouldn't expect anything from it. During meditation, I realised I had some things burried deep down into my subconscious, and as they started surfacing one by one I tried to find their causes and possible solutions.
As this is a personal experience, I can't vouch that it will work for everyone, but I think that a step by step approach to meditation - and anything, in general - is the best way to enjoy the benefits of the practice. Asking myself a lot of "why?" questions at every step of the practice has helped me understand why am I doing this and where I want to get to with it. I now do it for the sake of it, and in a weird way, not having expectations brings better results.
During meditation, I realised I had some things burried deep down into my subconscious, and as they started surfacing one by one I tried to find their causes and possible solutions.
Yes, this facing up is perhaps where the solution and potential unsettling/danger occurs. It sounds like you now have a realistic expectation and practice. Meditation and mindfullness are the rocket fuel of dharma but as you rightly point out we must be aware of suitable practice, real disciplined commitment and study, good company, ethical discipline, good will and compassion etc.
Good post. Inspiring personal experience. Many thanks
One will experience a wide spectrum of 'scenery' within the practice of meditation. However, it is 'safe' and is the path out of mental darkness and ignorance. One might, for example, either laugh out loud or feel tremendously sorry for oneself when one starts to touch the deeper levels of the mind and realizes how much of our suffering is self generated and how much of our pain is caused by grasping in all of its guises. Some people apprehend scary moments of 'no mind' but there is no 'no mind' only present mind. If your thoughts stop you are making progress and you will be just resting in an awareness that is untroubled, and this will not cause you any alarm at all, quite the contrary, this is a good taste of liberation.
I was taught that while some meditations only unearth what you are capable of resolving, others that more aggressively dig within, can uncover things that can require a closer master/ student relationship to address.
so...
Perhaps the better question is....
Is the type of meditation practice that you are doing, appropriate for the Dharmic support structure that you currently have in place?
3
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
@Jeffrey said:
lobster are you talking about Trungpa Rinpoche? I think he was an alcoholic but also a master teacher. I would follow his teachings but not go to bed with him!!
He is dead dude. Yuk!
What was his masterful teaching on alcoholism? How about hypocrisy? How about abuse of power? Must have jumped that part ...
No need to answer as he no doubt taught his students about mastering restraint ...
He lit a fire under a lot of peoples ass to study and meditate. Now many of his students are teachers. If you only see the alcohol and womanizing then he is indeed dead. And he did jump off a staircase to see if his guards would catch him. Judge not lest you be judged. I think this is especially true.
@Not_Two said:
I have heard 2 stories about meditation,one related to me by a close friend,an elderly ex-schoolmaster who had since died,and the other related by the head of the True Buddha sect, in a Chinese book of his.
In the first case,my friend came into direct contact with this man who apparently became insane after practicing meditation.It is not known what sort of meditation he practised.When my friend visited him at his home after hearing that he had become severely mentally sick,he was cooking his own excrement in the living room and wafting the rising smoke all over his body.The whole house was filled with the stench of shit.Some Buddhist monks had tried to see him to help him,but they were violently beaten off.Soon after my friend's visit,the man died.It is not known if he had taken his own life.
The other case related by Mr. Lu of the True Buddha School,a woman took up meditation purely for health,not believing in anything religious.It seems that she too,became insane.
My own view is that we have to deal with the negative karma of thought,speech and act accumulated in past lives before meditating.Chinese Mahayana practitioners(Pure Land) in my area have various ways of doing this to avoid problems arising during meditation.
What in the world makes you think the meditation had anything at all to do with their mental illness? This is what gets me. How, exactly, can meditation possibly damage the human brain? You're sitting quietly doing nothing. That's it. If you have a biochemical imbalance of the brain when you sit down, it's something that's going to mess you up no matter what you do. There is no mechanism by which the brain can damage itself by a few hours of quiet introspection once in a while. You're not going to make your head accidentally explode like some horror movie. No demon is going to invade and take over your body because you have a "back in half hour" sign on your chakra.
@Cinorjer there is a story of HHDL where he is asked how he deals with his feelings. He uses sadness and guilt as an example and tells the interviewer of a student who asked to study Tantra. HHDL told this student that he was not a fit enough vessel to study. Maybe he was too old or too sick. I don't remember this part of the story. Anyhow the student committed suicide in order to get more rapidly to a life where he can practice tantra. HHDL related this to feelings of sadness. He said his sadness never went away to this day. But that he had to go onward in the world.
My teacher in an interview (made somewhat public on an e-mail newsletter) with a student they asked if certain practices were dangerous and asked about tummo specifically. Shenpen, my teacher, said that she could not give support to that practice and that if her students practice it then they are on their own.
I am pretty sure that meditation affects the brain and it is an assumption that the brain cannot be harmed. It is much like saying a 'natural' plant cannot harm a person's brain. I know that you can have hallucinations (from talking to people I assume are not lying).
Rigdzin Shikpo who is my teachers husband in his book about the nature of mind talks about imbalances of the indiryas that can lead to odd states of mind. For example the energy of the mind can outbalance the concentration and lead to like a bubble around the person of their own fantasy world and they are filled with 'realizations' which sounded a lot like a mentally ill bipolar mania, but what he was talking about was even more strong version of that. He said in some cases a teacher might have to knock the student out cold. Ordinary people might have a touch of the energy you can notice in bed falling asleep and you see pictures sort of pictures.
Comments
I don't know, but I suspect that the deluded in that way would lack the discipline to meditate @dharmamom because they think that they are beyond all that..
When you read accounts of people who declare themselves enlightened or an avatar one of the characteristics is that they expect others to work hard on the cushion while they give orders.
@Citta: do you think I could suggest trying meditation to my neighbour? I suspect he's prone to depression bouts...
Personally I would would drop hints about what I do and then wait to see if there is a response thats indicates interest.
Personally I've found that Samatha has helped with my Schizophrenia, quite often when a bout of disturbed thinking comes in I'm able to let go of it and bring my attention back to the moment. Of course I am stable on an older generation antipsychotic and SSRI.
I took up Buddhist meditation as I was looking for a way to calm my mind when my Risperidone stopped working on me. It didn't cure me I ended up in hospital a couple of times of the last three years or so but it certainly helped me from doing anything overly stupid.
My Psychiatrist at the time who was Indian and a thoroughly good man was supportive of my meditation practice.
Its good to hear that @Lonely_Traveller .
Weird experience... I am visiting my daughter this weekend and came here by train. Did a spot of meditation during the journey. When I interrupted it to check which station the train had stopped at, a woman next to me said, "you were meditating...." I smiled and just nodded. She replied "I could tell by your aura... it's the most glorious purple colour... "
"Oh.... wow. That's cool...." I replied..... Not a lot you can really say to that....!
Grounding is for most, based on regularity, commitment and recognition that meditation is a lifetime practice commitment. It changes. Perhaps irregular 'only in a crisis' practice is the real danger?
@lobster ** Is meditation safe**
Define safe?
So true! I tell my students this almost every day.
I can offer a competitive meditation insurance package to protect against unwanted side effects.
Perhaps for most people, basic simple techniques are indeed nothing more than sitting peacably. However for some that is when they meet what they have been avoiding - themselves ... as you say the danger is the mind . . .
That leading out of rather than into Dukkha.
I have seen many wounded people made worse, they may have needed AA, medication, therapy. I have seen egoic teachers impress the gullible that meditation will solve everything. Instead of being referred, they were offered 'the ripening of karma' or practices that induced melt down. Others have used teachings and practices to band aid and calm their unresolved issues.
Meditation is one of a range of safety measures ...
I was just reading this article: http://magazine.good.is/articles/when-meditation-is-bad-for-you and thought I should share it with you.
Initially it annoyed me because the article felt like something written to get some views, but then I found this paragraph:
"Some meditation researchers, like Pacific University’s Sarah Bowen, suggest that trauma may arise because Western meditative traditions bypass the rigorous practices and intensive guidance of older meditation cultures. By treating meditation like a spiritual smoothie rather than an intense and complex practice, we run the risk of confronting meditation’s dark sides, or at least sinking into them more easily than those who have a framework of coping and recovery in place."
Which, I think, applies to a lot of people who think that "mindfulness" is something that can be put in the same basket as the stuff from "The Secret" and "how to get rich fast using spirituality" schemes.
I voluntary hospilatized myself were I refused anti-psychosis medicine. Instead I contuined my meditation practise and thats what proberly got me sane again.
So, in my opion, meditation can both damage and heal the mind. Its all about context and intention.
Meditation cannot damage your mind.
What is in your mind, regarding meditation - can damage your mind.
Misconceptions, unreal expectations and high doses of illegal drugs will damage the mind.
meditation - when followed in a well-practised and authentic way - will NOT damage the mind.
If you notice damage, it is merely exposed BY meditation.
@federica said: I smiled and just nodded. She replied "I could tell by your aura... it's the most glorious purple colour... "
She obviously has the sixth sense, facinathing
so your aura is purple actually, its a symbol for peace?
Thanks for sharing that. Great insight based on very real experience. Would anyone be gullible enough to follow a cocaine snorting 'zen master', an alcoholic 'lama rinpoche' or a nitrous oxide taking guru like Rajneesh?
A work in progress has to display integrity and honesty. Buddhism is a complete range of practices. Context, intention and for teachers, integrity.
Good reference from @tibellus too.
The wider context and unreal expectations and also very real benefits of genuine regular practice can not be underestimated.
The moment to moment unfolding awareness that @how and @genkaku allude to on the whole is a natural progression not always possible without prior experience.
We crawl, we stand, we walk.
@lobster are you talking about Trungpa Rinpoche? I think he was an alcoholic but also a master teacher. I would follow his teachings but not go to bed with him!! Might have a game of quarters with him though?? That might be fun.
^^^the guy on youtube is horrible. me and my friend Don could destroy him. I iz the quarters master!!
I have heard 2 stories about meditation,one related to me by a close friend,an elderly ex-schoolmaster who had since died,and the other related by the head of the True Buddha sect, in a Chinese book of his.
In the first case,my friend came into direct contact with this man who apparently became insane after practicing meditation.It is not known what sort of meditation he practised.When my friend visited him at his home after hearing that he had become severely mentally sick,he was cooking his own excrement in the living room and wafting the rising smoke all over his body.The whole house was filled with the stench of shit.Some Buddhist monks had tried to see him to help him,but they were violently beaten off.Soon after my friend's visit,the man died.It is not known if he had taken his own life.
The other case related by Mr. Lu of the True Buddha School,a woman took up meditation purely for health,not believing in anything religious.It seems that she too,became insane.
My own view is that we have to deal with the negative karma of thought,speech and act accumulated in past lives before meditating.Chinese Mahayana practitioners(Pure Land) in my area have various ways of doing this to avoid problems arising during meditation.
I can't answer that, I don't know what the colours symbolise, or whether Purple is the colour of Peace... it seems like a nice thought for it to be, though....
I had a friend with whom I studied Shiatsu, who also claimed she could see auras... she also maintained she could feel them, and that they helped her understand a person's physical disorder, and how it affected their psyche.... I lost touch with her (she moved to Africa) but she was fascinating to talk to....
@federica
Yes, I dont know much about auras either,
but the energy/mood level of each person its easier to feel and see then colour.
I cheked it up for you, if its true or not...
Purple Auras and Spiritual Balance
If an advisor tells you that your aura is purple at the moment, this is a good thing. A purple aura (also known as violet or indigo) means that you are in a good space spiritually, and that you are close to experiencing a state of equilibrium and open awareness.
Yes, well, it seems to fit!
My good friend could see pale, pale yellow when people were happy, pink when they were peaceful and pine-green when they seemed pre-occupied.
She also described these sensations as (respectively) tingly, like pins and needles, soft like velvet and slightly rough, like fine-grade sandpaper.
She once reported she had given a shiatsu to a very good gentleman-friend and his aura had been a muddy, greeny-brown... a bit like camouflage - and it had felt sticky, like melting lard... It had been particularly emphatic and present in his pelvic area.
On impulse, she had suggested he see his doctor for a check-up, and he did so, subsequently reporting that they found a small cancerous tumour in his bladder....
So that was a positive result...
On the topic of meditation, she loved to watch other people meditating because (as she put it) their auras 'trembled with delight and sang their colours...'
Federica: "On the topic of meditation, she loved to watch other people meditating because (as she put it) their auras 'trembled with delight and sang their colours...'
One more reason to meditate, its positive for our aura, so meditation is not dangerous
The reason behind it is that many other forms that focus or still the mind cause thoughts to come up from the subconscious. These thoughts can hold a fair amount of power and lead someone deeper into depression etc.
I think it's up to the persons level of understanding but I would be cautious.
Even breath work with me brings up some wacky stuff from the subconscious.
I did a ten day retreat meditating and most people felt heavy on about day 6. Some even left the retreat.
The teacher warned that this round happen.
So I'd say yes, without proper guidance and understanding meditation can be dangerous.
With metta
I disagree.
Just as a knife can serve us when used properly, or cut us when used carelessly, thus meditation functions.
It ain't what it is; it's what you do with it...
I should of rephrased the first bit. They say the only suitable mediation for EVERYBODY is mindfulness/zen.
Without proper guidance and understanding a knife can be dangerous.
I exchanged knife for meditation in the top post.
I think we are agreeing?!
Good, that's alright then. I'd hate to ban you for being argumentative.
Long ago on a flight, when the book "The Secret" was making the best-selling lists, I noticed a woman sitting not far from me, who desperately clang to the book.
Now and then she read it, now and then she said affirmations seemingly from the book almost out loud. At least, loud enough for me to recognize them as affirmations.
She repeated the affirmations with feverish zeal and there was this air of overall desperation about her.
One thing I noticed in the Insight Timer App forum is that many people have what strikes me as very unrealistic expectations about meditation and cling to the practice with ardent zeal, as if it were "the" raft, followed by episodes where they post comments in the lines of "it's not working, I still feel sad, depressed, it's not good, I don't feel better."
I don't think it hurts. Like @federica said above, "it's what you do with it."
But whatever meditation and/or mindfulness would be supposed to do, my feeling is: the more you expect the practice to deliver, the least you feel the results.
Or maybe it simply won't change the original stuff you bring with you into the practice.
It seems to me that it simply does not agree or work with certain people.
But then, after reading all these comments by people who suffer from clinical depression, it's like they expect too much from everything they try, from life in general, and all they see is their expectations frustrated every time... mostly by themselves, in my humble opinion...
A few years ago, I started meditating for the same reasons. I thought that meditation is some sort of a Holy Grail, that it will solve all my problems. At that time I actually didn't have so many problems, it was all going inside my head. I had a good job - I didn't see it that way back then -, great friends who supported me and a lot of spare time that I spent wallowing in the mire instead of putting it to good use. And I saw that meditation didn't solve these problems. Or, at least, that's what I thought. So I completely stopped meditating as "it didn't help me".
Then some really hard issues started pouring down. I won't go into details, but at that point I realised what the true meaning of "having problems" is. Everything I built until that moment crumbled away. After trying different solutions to cope with reality, I returned to meditation/mindfulness. This time, studying it more. Studying the way it should be practiced, reading about it, listening to dharma talks etc. in such a way that I learned that I shouldn't expect anything from it. During meditation, I realised I had some things burried deep down into my subconscious, and as they started surfacing one by one I tried to find their causes and possible solutions.
As this is a personal experience, I can't vouch that it will work for everyone, but I think that a step by step approach to meditation - and anything, in general - is the best way to enjoy the benefits of the practice. Asking myself a lot of "why?" questions at every step of the practice has helped me understand why am I doing this and where I want to get to with it. I now do it for the sake of it, and in a weird way, not having expectations brings better results.
Yes, this facing up is perhaps where the solution and potential unsettling/danger occurs. It sounds like you now have a realistic expectation and practice. Meditation and mindfullness are the rocket fuel of dharma but as you rightly point out we must be aware of suitable practice, real disciplined commitment and study, good company, ethical discipline, good will and compassion etc.
Good post. Inspiring personal experience. Many thanks
One will experience a wide spectrum of 'scenery' within the practice of meditation. However, it is 'safe' and is the path out of mental darkness and ignorance. One might, for example, either laugh out loud or feel tremendously sorry for oneself when one starts to touch the deeper levels of the mind and realizes how much of our suffering is self generated and how much of our pain is caused by grasping in all of its guises. Some people apprehend scary moments of 'no mind' but there is no 'no mind' only present mind. If your thoughts stop you are making progress and you will be just resting in an awareness that is untroubled, and this will not cause you any alarm at all, quite the contrary, this is a good taste of liberation.
I think the wrong meditation - the one you try to achieve something - could be harmful.
The misunderstanding from the person who is practicing the meditation could make it something negative.
A dumb example would be: A pen. One can use it for making beautiful drawings or stick it into one's eyes, lol.
IMO, when meditation is practiced focused in relaxing the body and mind, there is no way it could ever be harmful!
Is meditation safe???
I was taught that while some meditations only unearth what you are capable of resolving, others that more aggressively dig within, can uncover things that can require a closer master/ student relationship to address.
so...
Perhaps the better question is....
Is the type of meditation practice that you are doing, appropriate for the Dharmic support structure that you currently have in place?
Ugh....Too wordy....
Meditation: Howzit workin' for ya...?
He is dead dude. Yuk!
What was his masterful teaching on alcoholism? How about hypocrisy? How about abuse of power? Must have jumped that part ...
No need to answer as he no doubt taught his students about mastering restraint ...
.. Now back to climbing into the 'safe' vault ...
He lit a fire under a lot of peoples ass to study and meditate. Now many of his students are teachers. If you only see the alcohol and womanizing then he is indeed dead. And he did jump off a staircase to see if his guards would catch him. Judge not lest you be judged. I think this is especially true.
What in the world makes you think the meditation had anything at all to do with their mental illness? This is what gets me. How, exactly, can meditation possibly damage the human brain? You're sitting quietly doing nothing. That's it. If you have a biochemical imbalance of the brain when you sit down, it's something that's going to mess you up no matter what you do. There is no mechanism by which the brain can damage itself by a few hours of quiet introspection once in a while. You're not going to make your head accidentally explode like some horror movie. No demon is going to invade and take over your body because you have a "back in half hour" sign on your chakra.
@Cinorjer there is a story of HHDL where he is asked how he deals with his feelings. He uses sadness and guilt as an example and tells the interviewer of a student who asked to study Tantra. HHDL told this student that he was not a fit enough vessel to study. Maybe he was too old or too sick. I don't remember this part of the story. Anyhow the student committed suicide in order to get more rapidly to a life where he can practice tantra. HHDL related this to feelings of sadness. He said his sadness never went away to this day. But that he had to go onward in the world.
My teacher in an interview (made somewhat public on an e-mail newsletter) with a student they asked if certain practices were dangerous and asked about tummo specifically. Shenpen, my teacher, said that she could not give support to that practice and that if her students practice it then they are on their own.
I am pretty sure that meditation affects the brain and it is an assumption that the brain cannot be harmed. It is much like saying a 'natural' plant cannot harm a person's brain. I know that you can have hallucinations (from talking to people I assume are not lying).
Rigdzin Shikpo who is my teachers husband in his book about the nature of mind talks about imbalances of the indiryas that can lead to odd states of mind. For example the energy of the mind can outbalance the concentration and lead to like a bubble around the person of their own fantasy world and they are filled with 'realizations' which sounded a lot like a mentally ill bipolar mania, but what he was talking about was even more strong version of that. He said in some cases a teacher might have to knock the student out cold. Ordinary people might have a touch of the energy you can notice in bed falling asleep and you see pictures sort of pictures.
It's not safe if it's not according to the Dharma OP