What is "Compassion" ?
Shoshin
No one in particularNowhere Special Veteran
PLEASE NOTE : THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT "ISIL"- I HAVE USED THIS GROUP "JUST" AS AN "EXTREME" EXAMPLE-THIS THREAD IS ABOUT ALL ASPECTS OF COMPASSION AND WHAT IT MEANS TO SHOW COMPASSION ...
Compassion = Deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it.
The young members of ISIL often seen on news clips, their conditioned minds clouded by ignorance & delusion, easily lead on by self-generated fear and craving...Many of the clips are quite disturbing/unsettling...It's as if their mentally disturbed energies permeates the minds of others...They are somebody's children, sons, brothers, fathers, cousins, and in a past life they could have been our mother or other loved ones.....
Is any compassion felt when seeing them or something similar ? Or is it thoughts of hatred and revenge ? ISIL is just an extreme example of the difficulty for many to show any form of compassion towards what they perceive as something evil ...
As Buddhists (along with other things) our lives are meant to revolve around developing compassion , not only for other sentient beings but also for our 'ignorant' selves...
I gather that the goal for many members is "Enlightenment" and an enlightened being is meant to have compassion towards all sentient beings in equal measure...
In everyday life, how often do we show compassion towards complete strangers regardless of whether they are the victims or perpetrators of heinous acts ?
And is this compassion due to what we perceive as their suffering and our desire to alleviate it ?
Is it really true compassion felt ? or just compassion's poor cousin pity ? (Some say "Pity is egotistic and compassion is altruistic !")
Some people speak of a "tough love" kind of compassion, like the "One has to be cruel to be kind" sort...
How does one tell the different between "tough love" compassion and a candy coated "angry self-centred hate-filled response" ? (Bearing in mind that "doing the "right" thing" may stem from ones desire for things to be a certain way "my way or the highway" ....
We are all a work in progress I know, but I guess it's a thing that we all must bear in mind when unwholesome situations occur...(and in Samsara this more often than not sadly is the case)
Just some more rambling thoughts thinking out loud ...Enter my mind at your own risk..All care but no responsibility taken . :screwy: ..
The Ultimate question.... What does compassion mean to you ?
Comments
@Shoshin
Compassion can arrive in the form of many different kissing cousins but if one is really looking for a serious relationship with compassion, just focus on softening and dissolving the walls between self and other. In the absence of those walls or the identity of a self verses others is compassion, empathy, sympathy, tenderness, benevolence, love & wisdom as the words we use to describe such an awakening.
I always seem to get in trouble for my response to this question, so I will preface my answer by saying this is my standard...it does not have to be "yours".
To me, compassion is when you care enough about a situation to do something about it.
I feel very sorry for the people suffering under ISIL, but I am not doing anything about it. So I am not showing compassion. But, none of us can address every bad situation in the world.
It's a little like a conversation I was having with my neighbor earlier this evening when we were talking about how some parents force their children to say they are sorry. If it's forced, there's no real sorrow there.
As for the men in ISIL who behead, crucify, rape children and women, or who support those who do -- I have no compassion for them. Real compassion is not infinite, and I will reserve my compassion for the victims. Yes, I know, that's a hard line.
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( wipes a tear)
That was beautiful.
. . . Real compassion is not infinite . . .
Oh but it is. Tough on ignorance, tough on the causes of ignorance. Infinite kindness, whatever it takes . . .
'To infinity and beyond'
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The compassion of a Buddha, is infinite and non-referential.
As is taught, it is without gift, giver or reciever. It is not confined to place, person or event. It's compassion born out of the wisdom of emptiness.
If you want to limit your compassion for sentient beings, that's your buusiness, of course. In that case you're quite correct. Your compassion is limited and will remain so until you choose to do something about it. But don't worry. Lacking compassion won't kill you.
Lobster, it depends on how one defines compassion. I define it as taking action, not thinking. As I said, I realize that definition is not for everyone.
Hey vinlyn
just what do you have to lose with allowing compassion to be unlimited.
That kind of Fire & Brimstone probably points you closer towards the pearly gates than the path towards sufferings cessation, but good on you for your honesty about it.
But
compassion is about doing what is appropriate to cease from evil, do only good and purify the heart/mind. Sometimes doing that calls for your personal action just as other times the personal action that is called for is no action. This may or may not apply to your situation but for this reason I would not automatically say that your lack of action represents a lack of compassion......
and actual compassion (not being Ego bound) allows for you to see your own potential for being ISIL like while doing what ever is best to minimize the ignorance that it propagates.
How, it isn't about what I "allow".
I know people who walk around constantly saying, "I feel so sorry for _________", but don't ever do a damned thing about it. I just find that spinning the wheels. None of us can do compassionate things for everyone on earth who deserves compassion, but we can be actively involved in compassionate acts that make a difference.
Again, you or anyone else here may choose to define it differently. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind.
You know, guys, there is not just one definition of "compassion". A nice summary can be found on Google about different perspectives about compassion.
Perhaps each of you is a modern day version of Kuan Yin. Most people are not. We're just people who try to do good things for people when we can.
@vinlyn
My point is that Compassion does not adhere to anyone's "standard".
Each new nano second presents a different you and a different set of circumstances to respond to. Holding onto ideas, opinions and standards is just us being too lazy or scared to accept the responsible for the mindfulness that each new possibility presents.
Compassion is us also being those who spin their wheels or knowing that nothing that another being does really makes them innately separate from us.
Fine, How, think and do as you wish.
May I have the right to believe something different?
Essentially, compassion (karuna) is the desire for the suffering of others to stop. And for me, compassion is easy to feel for most people. It's what comes after that's difficult and requires wisdom.
In your example, I feel compassion for people who live in places where life is difficult, and where the politics are complicated by culture, religion, and the intervention of foreign governments. They're suffering, and they're trying to liberate the suffering and alienation of their nation by changing the material conditions that support it.
From their point of view, they're doing the right thing, the necessary thing. But from my relatively comfortable perch in the US, I can see how their actions are only going to condition more suffering. Not only for themselves by provoking retaliation from foreign nations like the US, but for the soldiers who are charged with carrying out that retaliation and the civilians caught in the middle.
That doesn't mean I have to agree with either side, however. I think the entire situation engenders compassion, and I wish all parties involved realized the impact of their actions and acted accordingly.
We're taught to cultivate compassion for all living beings, to desire to ease their suffering; and we're also supposed to act on those feelings. But we can't always succeed in that task, which is why we must also learn to cultivate equanimity (upekkha)— the even-mindedness that remains neutral in the face of experiences we simply can't change — in order to keep a balanced mental state.
In this case, even though I feel compassion, there isn't much I can do to ease the suffering of those involved; and I think equanimity is also needed so that compassion doesn't become suffering.
Dear friends of the first Noble truth
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Existence is dukkha . . . some infinite Boddhisattva ain't the action figure we figured on?
. . . In a similar way to our infinite capacity towards active enablement or empowerment our feelings of metta and compassion have a continuum of potential. That continuum stretches like the arms of a thousand skilful Bodhi manifestations as far and wide as our limitations allow.
I am a limited being but my potential for experiencing compassion is part of an infinite continuum. The skilful means to enable that continuum is finite. Oh the humanity
. . . The reason why I need all the help I can get . . . same as all us ignorami . . .
Compassion is that which makes the heart of the good move at the pain of others. It crushes and destroys the pain of others; thus, it is called compassion. It is called compassion because it shelters and embraces the distressed. —The Buddha.
Compassion is that which makes the heart of the good move at the pain of others. It crushes and destroys the pain of others; thus, it is called compassion. It is called compassion because it shelters and embraces the distressed. —The Buddha.
That Buddha he sure gets everywhere . . .
The Dalai Lama once said that "compassion is a necessity, not a luxury", and that without it humanity cannot survive !
A simple truth...I like that... . :thumbsup: ..
What does compassion mean to you ?
An openness to suffering.
Aspects that I believe @vinlyn is stressing are 'idiot compassion', sentimentality and non engaged Buddhism (theoretical compassion). Good idea to explore these 'we will pray for you' type 'compassion substitutes' . . .
With metta
Yours Sincerely,
Lobster . . .
Yes, we can have compassion for your view.
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Something that happens when we see others as ourselves.
TNH says, basically, that the inter-being of all living things can be a basis of compassion. Nothing exists without the rest. The poverty and ignorance that lead to the cruelty and horrors of ISIL exist because of the riches and excess of other parts of the world. We are them and they are us.
On a practical level, I surely find it impossible to have compassion for animal abusers (for example). But if I can think of their beginnings, without visualizing what they've done after being abused or tortured themselves, it is easier to have some level of compassion. I think it's a very advanced Buddhist who can do this. Not me ... yet...
Meditating on compassion and the changes in the brain...
https://psyphz.psych.wisc.edu/web/News/Meditation_Alters_Brain_WSJ_11-04.htm
This Mind&Life Institute link is quite interesting, it runs for around two and half hours, however you could start at one hour thirty minutes in, where compassion and empathy are discussed in more detail...
I'm with @How (and the others who've probably expounded on his post that I skipped reading, but will go back). I've directly experienced this loosening, flimsy barrier of 'other' all but disappear on me -- not a difficult thing as a nurse, considering the intense situations we are exposed to.
I took care of a grandmother who gave her two year old grandson Methadone and killed him. She was my patient, and remained bubbly and/or petulant without a single sign of sadness or remorse. It was a bizarre 'war' going on in my head just to be in the room with her. It would hit me "She killed her grandbaby!" after several long moments where she and I were just simply there together, like I was with any patient or person. It wasn't like I 'forgot' what she did (and worse -- why she did it, the child was fussy and easier to cope with knocked out). It just didn't . . . matter.
Talk about an internal war in my head
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I have no doubt that that flimsy false barrier would vaporize off and on if I were to sit with a terrorist, a rapist, murderer. I've had it happen too many times to believe I could never cope with such a person OR feel compassion for them.
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when the knowledge of 'dukka' (suffering) arises the inevitable results is the compassion for everyone
That is a way of looking at compassion that sharpens the idea, focusing on behavior, and I sincerely believe that individual humans are going to have differing personal experiences. For me, undoubtedly shaped by my experience of forced intimacy as a nurse, compassion is not confined to behavior, it is an experience. It's not really a feeling or emotion, it's like a set of eyes, a perceptual instrument.
That I may do nothing (no action) doesn't seem to impact this experience of compassion, it is there whether or not I even agree with it lol.
From my comfy couch in the USA, the grotesque happenings in the middle East are almost impossible to relate with. Do I experience compassion for the propagators of ISIL? Absolutely not. Yet I know if I were to find myself in a room with one of them, just sitting around suffering, I wouldn't be capable of sneering or feeling glad for their suffering.
Compassion at my level of experience is very dependent upon physical proximity, perhaps :buck: . I imagine a great bodhisattva would generate great compassion across the miles and miles of atrocity, and getting a glimpse of that is possible for me, but not a living reality at all.
Imagine being in a room where there is a dog in a cage that looks playful with its tail wagging, and that dog has just mauled a child. Would I want to see someone tormenting it with a stick? Or torturing it out of desire for revenge? Of course not. Would I want it to be put down? Absolutely. As humanely as possible.
Same with the brutes in isil.
If I ever find myself decapitating someone with a carving knife, I pray that someone puts me down as quickly as possible.
What some people here are calling compassion is so easy when they are sitting in their relatively safe home on their leather sofa watching a widescreen television or listening to their component stereo system after having gone out for dinner at a good restaurant. The kids are in their beds dreaming about a safe and pretty good school they attend. The finances are decent despite 3 credit cards and a mortgage. The job is pretty secure, probably with health care and some type of pension program. There's a nice car out in the garage...maybe two. In the late 1960s or 1970s they probably sat in a circle around a campfire in a field of daisies singing "Kumbaya". Now they're western Buddhists just full of loving thoughts.
They probably haven't been to the third world at all. They haven't walked through the slums of the Philippines and seen the hopelessness. They haven't talked with the paraplegic begging on the street in Bangkok, or the leper holding on to his tin cup with fingers that are half gone. They never see the primary school aged children that don't go to school at all. They never see the children who have no home at all, but instead are lucky if they are living in an upcountry Thai orphanage, and if they're unlucky they're living under corrugated tin down in the old port area of Klong Toey. They haven't seen the crucifixions or beheadings taking place in Iraq, or the tens of thousands who are alive but have had to flee their homes and villages and even their country...probably unable to take a single possession with them (maybe they saw a sanitized news report on their favorite internet news site). They haven't been to Ecuador and seen the kids with cleft lips and palates whose facilities cannot possibly afford corrective surgery. Heck, they haven't even been to a ghetto right here in the United States.
But they are with their loving thoughts that make them feel so good...thoughts which change not one thing happening to the millions of unfortunates in the world.
I was first introduced to Buddhist thought by reading the Dalai Lama's Art of Happiness. His compassion has always drawn me to him but he makes it clear in this book that, however much a person may wish to act when feeling compassion, each of us can only do the little we can. He uses the example of his exclusion from Tibet and the resultant impact on buddhists there. He could not solve this, however much he would like to. So, I am not certain that feeling true compassion can always involve action beyond seeking what little I can do (which may be no more than thinking about it). I am reminded of the serenity prayer:
the courage to change the things I can
and the wisdom to know the difference.
@vinlyn - I really appreciate you putting forward your point of view here. But are you perhaps being harsh on yourself? Are you, perhaps, more compassionate than you make yourself out to be? Thoughts may not change the immediate circumstances of millions of unfortunates but they change me and I have no idea what the roll on impact may be ... :mullet:
So true @ vinlyn. Spending time in the third world is a real eye opener. Faces etched with hunger. Eyes that reflect hopelessness. Yes the most sublime thoughts cannot change the day to day life of suffering humanity. A surgeon I know who volunteers with Interplast told me that many children and their families suffer doubly. Not only from the defect but from folk belief that the parents of these children had been involved with unclean spiritual practices that caused their kids defects. Hell realms? Right in front of us.
@vinlyn, there's much truth in what you are saying...However, "loving thoughts" are what gets many people motivated, perhaps karmically their are not in any position to act on these thoughts...
I've found that many Westerners who are drawn to the Dharma have their own personal baggage to deal with, anxiety, depression, etc etc...
Suffering is suffering, I guess Dukkha takes on many forms and does not discriminate against ones socioeconomic status, race, nationality etc etc...
I've witnessed much of what you have mentioned when travelling through countries where poverty is the norm...There are many things that I would like to do to 'save the world', but I'm financially poor, but rich in spirit (karmically fortunate so to speak) so I put my hands and heart to good use, helping to alleviate suffering in my own backyard-within my local community-using the skills I've obtained from the kindness of others...
No doubt many members here (who are karmically fortunate-and have worked through their baggage) are doing what they can to help others too...
When it comes to compassion it's also the 'thought' that counts.
Thank you for asking that question, Sarah. I'm not being harsh on myself (nor am I trying to be harsh to others here on the site). I believe that real compassion is when one tries to make another person's life better. When one takes action to alleviate suffering. As a teacher and later principal (before retiring), I was considered to be very child-centered and one who went beyond what the majority of teachers were doing to help kids both in and out of school. I would take kids from our gang-riddled neighborhood out on special outings so they could experience another side of American life, and sometimes they would warn me to get them back home before dusk because it would not be good for me to be in that neighborhood after dark because of too many shootings and robberies. Minority kids got special attention. Our handicapped learners got special attention (the special ed department chair once complimented me as being the favorite adult in the building of the mildly mentally retarded kids). But, no pats on the back are deserved because I can think of other times when I let kids down either one-on-one or because I didn't hold certain teachers to their responsibilities toward troubled kids. I tried, but should have done better.
In my time in Thailand I would talk with the many beggars I would encounter (if they spoke any English). I shook hands with lepers who were missing fingers. I bought beggars food and water, and in some cases even helped them eat and drink. But I also remember one year, on my last day there, when I gave one teenaged beggar the equivalency of about $15 (where most would give him about 25 cents, if anything) and felt pretty good about myself UNTIL I later thought that what I gave him was about the price of one CD I would buy each week at the record store...I didn't feel quite so good about myself after that.
My whole point here is that thinking good thoughts doesn't actually help anyone...other than the person having good thoughts. Oh it's nice, but it doesn't improve anyone's life, cure anyone's cancer, feed a starving person, etc. I have an 81 year old neighbor woman who works one day a week at the local soup kitchen feeding the homeless; that's what I call compassion. When I saw film of the Pope washing the feet of disabled people and prison inmates; that's what I call compassion.
I think I have done many compassionate acts in my life...but never enough...never as much as could have afforded (either monetarily or time-wise) to do, there was always more I could have done...and should have done. Maybe I get a B-.
I think that you are presenting a balanced viewpoint about compassion. I commend your attitude toward the subject.
Every day we pass those who help others who remain silent. The surgeon I mentioned is a good example. I knew him many years before he told me of his work with Interplast. If anyone is curious Interplast is an organization that sponsors surgeons and nurses to volunteer their time to go to countries in the developing world who volunteer their time and skills to repair facial birth defects. They are there for a limited time and always have to turn away patients.
For me compassion means that it isn't that they ARE evil just they have evil arisings in their mind and they have a LOT of work to do.
That's such a good example, Grackle. One of my retired teachers and her husband developed a similar medical program to send doctors to Guatemala. They developed mobile surgery units so that many surgeries (including lip and cleft palates) can be done right in the rural villages. Interestingly, the woman's husband worked as an engineer in the Navy in Washington, and when he retired he and his son got the group going because the son had been in Guatemala in the Peace Corps.
Thich Nhat Hanh (lot of training) said that in the Vietnam war he saw that as a test of his faith. I can't recall the whole text but I remember him saying that he gave some of his rice away and then the community seeing him as a leader gave him their extra rice so he could be sort of a care taker of the least fortunate. I assume he is telling the truth
He is also a Buddhist who walks the walk. He (at least on some occasions) would not take interviews unless the interviewer would sit with him in meditation for awhile. I saw a youtube of when he was asked to talk to the UN and he had them do a meditation.
There is relative and ultimate bodhicitta. Relative is doing good things. Ultimate is the generosity of a person as the nature of their mind. This can be amazingly obscured in some people.
Ok ^^^ this is out of a book. Still it's the basic Mahayana teaching so it is not some airy dairy thinking.
Obviously.
I don't think having compassion for a terrorist, rapist and/or killer is the same as feeling sorry for them or wanting to allow them to go on their merry way.
@vinlyn
Do you suppose having compassion for a member of isis would stop someone from killing them?
If it came down to it, I could kill a terrorist without losing my compassion for them.
@Ourself, I understand what your position is, but I can't agree with it. But that's okay, we all look at things differently.
But they are with their loving thoughts that make them feel so good...thoughts which change not one thing happening to the millions of unfortunates in the world.
I can't help that I was born into the wealthiest country on the planet, never missed a meal in my life nor had any dearth of heat, running water, medical care and healthy children. I'm not even particularly fearful that I'll ever be without any of the above. I can totally see how this would make a citizen blind to the torture of the rest of the world but it hasn't done so to me to the best of my ability.
There is something very egotistical about this statement of yours that I quoted, it's almost soppy with sentiment, and for . . . ? It's sounds like such a put down, but I won't just believe that. It's a dead end, more of a statement of the futility of it all that if only we were aware enough we'd agree with, hanging our heads. My 'survivor's guilt' may be playing into this, so I'm not accusing you, more just sharing without being all convicted.
There is great suffering here that all our money and comfort cannot seem to prevent. We fat sassy Americans love our children as much as the babies born in an Indian ghetto, maybe more confidently because we know they will live, and can believe in a future for them? Are we really suffering, then, and when we do, what's our excuse?
Of course it depends on the person. Some people will feel real compassion and some will feel hate, some will feel nothing. But I think Buddhist teaching makes it clear that the more wisdom a person has, the more compassion they have. Avalokitesvara, for example, is extraordinarily wise and extraordinarily compassionate. All Buddhas are naturally extraordinarily compassionate. All wise beings are naturally and unconditionally compassionate.
"Deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it."
That's a fine definition I think. Although, this is samsara. Some suffering just can not be relieved, that's what makes it samsara. Samsara is filled with suffering and it always will be. You can't stop it. But that does not mean you don't still wish that is could be. The ultimate Bodhisattva action is to attain enlightenment for the purpose of leading beings out of samsara. As long as they are still stuck in samsara, their suffering can not be stopped.
Hamsaka:
Teacher #1 teaches Spanish. She often makes comments like, "I feel so sorry for some of our Latino kids. They just have almost nothing, live in that terrible neighborhood where there is so much drug traffic and crime. Their parents work double jobs. It's just such a shame." She spends her time after school working with the gifted children, most of whom are white upper-middle or upper class. Her husband had an income in the half million dollar range. They live in a $2 million dollar house and drive very expensive cars.
Teacher #2 teaches History. She doesn't talk much about the Latino kids. But she has tutoring sessions for them almost every afternoon. Visits at least some of their homes. Goes to events they invite her to. Works with some of the Latino parents on issues related to their adjustment to America. Her husband and her together have an income of maybe $110,000 and are putting one son through college, with another on the way. They live in a house that cost maybe $300,000 (keep in mind, this is the D.C. burbs). They drive somewhat beat up cars.
Which is being more compassionate? The teacher who talks a good game, or the one who gets in there, rolls her sleeves up, and actually does things for these minority families? Which one is making a valuable contribution to IMPROVING lives?
And the person who has the least is doing the most. And the person who has the most is doing the least.
"Deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it."
Good definition.
In Vajrayana the Bell and Dorje are used ritualistically to represent compassion and the wisdom to empower that compassion.
We require insight or wisdom to know that there is great Dukkha and we develop empathy and compassion and the wisdom to apply its implementation.
In our initial efforts we develop compassion for ourself, in other words we acknowledge the inherent imperfections of existence. That wisdom enables us to start avoiding karmic bindings and implementing a positive working framework such as the 8 fold path.
This is why Buddhist compassion often entails facilitating people to embody and start on their road to understanding.
TNH often says "Compassion is a verb!" And of course he walks the walk. He's practically the founder of "Engaged Buddhism". However, I'm sure he's not going to travel to Iraq and give a dharma talk and pass out some food to a group of armed terrorists! Ha! But I'm sure he still has compassion for them. I think it's pretty accurate to say compassion is a verb, to a certain extent.
Nope, but compassion, in the context of Buddhadharma, isn't about positive thinking. Norman Vincent Peale wrote a whole book on that topic, but I don't recall the Buddha ever teaching it.
Maybe not even that.
There are times where I wouldn't go that far. Like the times when you encounter some obsequeous little twerp, who read a couple chapters of a Buddhist book and is running around acting out what he thinks is compassion - like thinking good thoughts.
It's funny, but I don't recall the Buddha curing anyone's cancer - I think Jesus was into that, though. I'm curious to know if sutra's telling us that anyone's life was "improved" (whatever that means). Jesus is recorded as feeding the multitude with a few loaves of bread and some fish, did Buddha do anything like that?
I would say that it's compassion that drives such activity and that's what compassion is about. Compassion fuels practice and practice leads to Buddhahood. A Buddha turns the Wheel of Dharma ...........
Really? I call that hygene. Hell, dude, I've washed people's feet before. It's not that big of a deal. In the Pope's case, people expect him to do that. He's merely living up to expectations.
Don't worry. We don't get graded on Compassion.
Can one manifest compassion anywhere but within this one present moment that we find ourselves in?
Fretting over compassion, manifested or not, in yesterdays or tomorrows moment or
comparing our own manifestation of compassion against others is just another ego game.
Sit.
Observe the arising & passing of phenomena and stop feeding our habituated responses to them.
Only when we can get our identity on such a diet can compassion be something more than just another ego treat.
and especially....
Do not misdirect the need to be compassionate to who & where we actually are, by emotionally fixating on a possible lack of compassion that might be somewhere else.
When it comes to compassion, (or any other Dharma practice) we must operate in a conventional world, but with an ultimate goal in mind
I don't know if it's a built-in biological survival mechanism in the brain, but I get a sense of satisfaction every time I help a person in need (a feel good buzz-by-product of ones actions) also there's a feeling of warmth/gratitude I feel when someone helps or offers to help me. I'm under the impression this would be the case for most people, but then again I could be wrong...Perhaps I'm just selfish and this sense of satisfaction is the ego's way of rewarding itself...
Dukkha= Unsatisfactoriness