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Did HHDL actually say this?
zenguitar
Bad BuddhistNew England Veteran
Dear Sangha, you can call me skeptical (why wouldn't he knock the things below), but did HH the Dalai Lama actually say this? If so, what is the source of the quote?
"I believe compassion to be one of the few things we can practice that will bring immediate and long-term happiness to our lives. I’m not talking about the short-term gratification of pleasures like sex, drugs or gambling (though I’m not knocking them), but something that will bring true and lasting happiness. The kind that sticks.”
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Comments
http://zenhabits.net/a-guide-to-cultivating-compassion-in-your-life-with-7-practices/
Thanks, though it looks like Leo Babauta wrote that, not HHDL. I guess the internet was wrong (gasp!)
It doesn't sound like the DL's communication style. ("I'm not knocking them" ? Too idiomatic for a foreigner who isn't fluent in English. Not to mention the concepts conveyed, haha.)
Why knock it? There's nothing "inherenty" "wrong" with any of those things and they do bring fleeting gratification.
"Not knocking" something is wise. HH has gotten himself into hot water making public comments that appeared judgemental of people who are actually his students. A lot of his students and supporters have sex, use drugs, and like to gamble. Circumspect language used publically isn't really a bad idea.
Plus, he's not wrong.
As far as idiom is concerned, a lot of Tibetan teacher try very hard to connect with people and will often adopt idioms that may seem a bit out of place and their usege awkward, but they try.
Yes, but the DL doesn't.
Trungpa used a lot of hippy slang words like 'laying trips on people'
Damned straight!
He picked up the idiom of his students, studied it and uused it, although he preferred the Queen's English over American, thinking the latter lazy. He still used American hippy slang to work with his students to find terms they could readily understand.
My Guru uses a lot of "American" terms in his teaching. He likes the Rolling Stones and drinks Coke.
When in Rome .....
Sometimes they don't get it right. They commit little lingusitic faux pas, but that's ok. They're trying.
Doesn't what?
@zenguitar - may I ask why you care who said it?
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Doesn't use idioms and 'hip' talk. Trungpa was a controversial master, who lived a partially-hedonistic lifestyle, and was not, as one might say, your "regular, run-of-the-mill" Rinpoche/Lama. His adoption of certain habits raised a few eyebrows.
The Dalai lama is nothing like him, still speaks English with a strong Tibetan accent, and does not resort to hip parlance or jargon.
So the above quotation was not from him. And in fact, it seems the original 'author' has been exposed.
So? He raised a few eyebrows. He was human and refused to be stuffed into a pigeonhole of our spiritual materialism. And what's a "run-of-the-mill" lama? I've met literally dozens and unless that's not enough, I haven't the faintest idea what that means.
Ever actually listen to Trungpa speak? He was heavily accented, both with Tibetan and English influence. My Guru, an ethic Tibtan born/raised in India speaks very good English with a curious mix of Tibetan and Indian. The fact that actually worked at getting his English langage skills right speaks volumes. Many influential Tibetans today still rely on translators for their oral teachings. Trungpa did not. Even the DL uses translators. This is possibly where the the DL quote comes from - one of his translators used the word.
Nothing wrong with using familiar idom and smart teacher will use it. We have a quote from the DL using common english slang. IT's all over the 'net. Can anyone actually refute this attribution, 'cos I sure can't.
Funny enough, I just learned recently that the Guru who is the Spiritual Director at the dharma center I've started attending is a huge Coca Cola fan. Definitely a "When in Rome" scenario.
What do you mean, "Can anyone actually refute this attribution"? Someone did, at the beginning of the thread. Did you not check out the link?
Because it seemed strange to me for HHDL to say that he would not knock "sex, drugs, and gambling." At least one of them breaks a precept. But of course it wasn't HHDL.
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Perhaps you're being a little defensive, or maybe that's my interpretation, but there is no criticism implied in my comment. It is just an observation.
Given that I do not follow that lineage or school of Buddhism, my comments are both neutral and impartial.
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Fine, very good, wonderful, no argument here.... I'm not really concerned one way or the other....
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Yes, it was done at the top, by @zenguitar:
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No, not until you mentioned it.
If you mean the one that Spiney N. offered, I ignore links without descriptions as a matter of personal policy. Been bit to many times.
That said, following the link is clear that the author actually said it, but my briief research found a good number of quotes attributing that quote to the DL. Who to believe? There are plenty of cases where people on the 'net get attributions wrongs, but there are also plenty of cases where people plagerize.
Whatever.
Of course, but you must also remember that not all schools or teachers place a premium on The Precepts. In my 12 years in the Kagyu lineage, I've never once heard a teaching on living by the Precepts. Not one. I suspect the Gelug are similar, so I rather doubt the DL would condemn a student for not abiding by them.
People will have sex, smoke dope and play poker. Buddhists will do that too. HHDL once made some unsavory comments about homosexuality. He got in a peck of trouble with his students for that one, even though his comments were scripturally "correct".
It helps to be circumspect when dicussing such things.
@chaz, thanks, but since the Dalai Lama is a lifelong celibate monastic ("a simple monk" in his own words) I just can't believe he would have a positive opinion of any worldly pleasures. At best he would probably view them as distractions from the path.
Now if that quote had been attributed to Chogyam Trungpa, on the other hand, I might have just chuckled instead of starting this tedious thread.
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...Even though he has since stated, many times, that his own personal opinions are at variation with scriptures, but that a person in his position does not have the authority to change - or even suggest a change to - the scriptures.
It's like someone who's vegetarian working in a kitchen, and they have to prepare meat. Their own values may be their chosen values - but they still have to comply with their job-spec.
However, your comment with regard to HH the DL's stance, has nothing to do with the kind of speech, language or colloquial hip-speak the thread is centred on, so I'm not sure what your point is.
It also helps to stay on topic and not cloud the issue with non-relevant comments.
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You're being defensive throughout, and honestly Chaz, nobody's attacking, criticising or picking holes in your PoV. You make valid points, and that's fine..
The whole topic began on "Did the DL say this?" and it's highly likely he didn't.
That's all.