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Irish referendum on equal marriage rights appears to have passed

vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

It occurred to me that this news story and what appears to be happening right here in the States may indicate -- in at least one way -- that the concept of human rights is trumping religion in some cultures.

What do you think?

Comments

  • WalkerWalker Veteran Veteran

    I think so too. It wasn't that long ago that the Irish voters were saying no to divorce.

    Now the Middle East is a different story...

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    How true!

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    A few years ago Ajahn Brahm gave an interesting talk on "Gay Marriage" & "Human Rights" from a Buddhist perspective...

  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran

    Ireland -- of all places! This is very exciting and a huge relief. The mass movement to tolerance is not just a blip on the radar, if a country like Ireland can permit gay marriage.

    The folks 'in power' are listening to the Millenials (my kids generation) who, even if they are religious, are very tolerant of LGBTQ and so forth. On NPR the other night a Catholic priest from Dublin was interviewed, and this was the point he brought up -- they are losing the youngest adults in droves, seeming because of the intolerance of homosexual marriage. No doubt there's more to it than that, but gay marriage seems to be the pivot point.

    Now if we can just get them to OK birth control . . .

    ShoshinWalkerNichyRowan1980
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    edited May 2015

    This is also another indication that more Catholics are thinking for themselves, and not letting the Church think for them.

    ShoshinKenneth
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran

    @vinlyn said:> This is also another indication that more Catholics are thinking for themselves, and not letting the Church think for them.

    Interesting article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/24/world/europe/ireland-gay-marriage-referendum.html?_r=0

    It says: "Not long ago, the vote would have been unthinkable. Ireland decriminalized homosexuality only in 1993, the church dominates the education system, and abortion remains illegal except when a mother’s life is at risk. But the influence of the church has waned amid scandals in recent years, while attitudes, particularly among the young, have shifted."

  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    How wonderful.

    Church/bigotry removal services always welcome. Oh the local Anglican Church bells have started ringing. Maybe they are celebrating. I hope the local Catholics will be flying rainbow flags shortly, maybe the local Tibetan Buddhists have spare bunting ...

    Eh Ma Ho as we X-Catholics say. Forgive me Father Lama for I have been unmindful ...

    Hamsaka
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran

    I await gay cake rows with interest. Or perhaps gay Guinness? ;)

    lobsterRowan1980
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    ^^^ or Gay Byrne?

    That name is Gay! O.o

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
  • yildunyildun Explorer

    hi
    The RC Church will not have to carry out LGBT Marriages,this vote in fact had nothing to do with the RC church ..under current law a gay marriage was just a civil union and could be repealed by legislation while a Straight marriage was supported by Bunreacht na hÉireann the Irish constitution now LBGT or HETRO are the same under the Constitution,BOTH are equal under the Constitution and can not be legislated away.

    The RC Church can still refuse to marry LGBT people and it will sadly so so.

    Slainte

    Yildun

    Hamsaka
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited May 2015

    ^^^ indeed. It really is about legal rights not Church dogma. It illustrates how far homophobic countries like Ireland can travel. Still more to do. Brothers and sisters in other countries being relegated to secondary or illegal status.

    GAY is an acronym 'Good As You'. That really is the status of equality ...

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited May 2015

    @yildun, you're completely missing the point.

    Kenneth
  • HamsakaHamsaka goosewhisperer Polishing the 'just so' Veteran

    @lobster said:
    ^^^ indeed. It really is about legal rights not Church dogma. It illustrates how far homophobic countries like Ireland can travel. Still more to do. Brothers and sisters in other countries being relegated to secondary or illegal status.

    GAY is an acronym 'Good As You'. That really is the status of equality ...

    That's the whole point. I don't think anyone is trying to secularize church dogma. We're just trying to keep church dogma off the law books and in the churches where it belongs, where it can be hailed or prayed to and bigotted right left and center in the privacy of their puny little hearts.

    I have an . . . acquaintance (barely) who is a Biblical literalist Christian who only talks to me, I think, because I both fascinate and disgust him (it works!). He claims that the move to 'tolerance' is an attempt to force people like him to THINK it's OK to be gay married. I didn't really understand that for the longest time. What does anyone care what you THINK in the privacy of your little pinhead?

    But after some thinking about this, it hit me -- it's projection.

    His POV is all about thought-control, and it is daily religious life for him to be preoccupied with controlling HIS thoughts and no doubt the thoughts of anyone he feels he has authority over, which in my estimation, is nearly everyone.

    So naturally, he assumes the move toward equality is just like his literalist Christian intent, to control his thoughts. No amount of explanation or reassurance does a THING to comfort him out of this. I think it's because he can't conceptualize much of the human experience outside of the razor wire of his fundamentalist beliefs. Thought control (his own and that of others) has become some bizarre reality and he can't conceptualize how it might work otherwise.

  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited May 2015

    @vinlyn said:
    It occurred to me that this news story and what appears to be happening right here in the States may indicate -- in at least one way -- that the concept of human rights is trumping religion in some cultures.

    What do you think?

    I agree. Not only is Ireland the first country to approve gay marriage via a popular national vote, it managed to do so with a majority Catholic population (72%), suggesting a shift away from religious intolerance and towards a growing awareness of the need for equality among people of faith.

    lobsterRowan1980Hamsaka
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    @yildun said:
    hi
    The RC Church will not have to carry out LGBT Marriages,this vote in fact had nothing to do with the RC church ..under current law a gay marriage was just a civil union and could be repealed by legislation while a Straight marriage was supported by Bunreacht na hÉireann the Irish constitution now LBGT or HETRO are the same under the Constitution,BOTH are equal under the Constitution and can not be legislated away.

    The RC Church can still refuse to marry LGBT people and it will sadly so so.

    Slainte

    Yildun

    The vote has everything to do with the Catholic Church in Ireland. 84% of the people in Ireland are Catholic. That means a lot of them voted in a way not approved by the Church. They turned their backs on Church dogma and voted for their perception of morality.

    If anything, the Church's intransigence on this issue will simply lead more away from being dominated by the Church.

    lobsterRowan1980
  • WalkerWalker Veteran Veteran
    edited May 2015

    I think that's OK. There are die-hard conservatives in all cultures that oppose any attempts to reform society. If the hard-core don't want to perform ceremonies, or otherwise include the LGBT community in their organization, they shouldn't have to, or feel they have to.

    If human rights are observed in a nation, then LGBTs are free to associate with like-minded people in the religion of their choice. People will go where they are welcome and accepted.

    I think it's all about balancing everybody's rights, and this seems to be 'the Middle Way' in my opinion anyway.

  • WalkerWalker Veteran Veteran

    I'd like to clarify that I'm speaking only about religious organization here. I find the stuff going on with Hobby Lobby, etc. ridiculous. Keep everyone's bedroom preferences out of business altogether!

    lobster
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    I do think that a church should not be required to conduct marriages against their tenets.

    lobsterHamsaka
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran

    @Walker said: Keep everyone's bedroom preferences out of business altogether!

    Quite so! And the idea that a supreme being would be in the least bit interested in what people get up to in the bedroom seems absurd to me.

    lobsterHamsaka
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Well, I have heard it said "God, that felt good!" so, maybe.....

    WalkerlobsterBuddhadragonHamsaka
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited May 2015

    @SpinyNorman said:
    Quite so! And the idea that a supreme being would be in the least bit interested in what people get up to in the bedroom seems absurd to me.

    I am not sure what the Supreme Beings get up to in the bedroom, if anything. Creation is weird/absurd enough for me ...

    ... and now back to the celebrations ...

  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran

    @federica said:> Well, I have heard it said "God, that felt good!" so, maybe.....

    Nice to hear that things are going well. ;)

    WalkerRowan1980Hamsaka
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