Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Random thought
tibellus
Veteran
Just had a little "aha!" moment, and this thought popped into my mind. Why is there such a need for lots of words, complicated symbolism and questions in every religion, Buddhism included, when we can simplify to "just be good to each other"? Why do we humans like to build complicated systems?
4
Comments
Because "just be good to each other" gets really complex when you bring certain other things into the fold. When someone truly believes a person who has an abortion is committing a murder, how to be good that person? How to convince them not to go through with it? What is the best way to convince everyone else not to kill bugs or eat meat? How to be good to those who kidnap, rape, and marry off little girls? I'm not even saying I approve of being mean to them (I don't) or eye-for-an-eye treatment. But when someone believes strongly in what they are doing, and you believe strongly that what they are doing is wrong, how do you come to a consensus that allows both sides to feel ok and move on?
It gets complex because people are very complex. Due, in part, to our karma and causes and conditions that we come to this birth with (see, there we go again, I can understand something from that point, but if you don't believe in rebirth, then we have a problem even having a discussion).
It is much easier to say "worry about yourself and no one else, and treat others as you wish to be treated." Except the way you treat someone because of how you want to be treated may be the farthest thing from what THEY want. We assume other people want what we do and then we go horribly wrong. Kindness seems easy...until you have to decide if you need to be more kind to terrorist or their victims, or the unborn baby and it's young mother who wants to abort it.
It all, I think stems from all those difficult and mostly unanswerable questions. Every human has the same questions, and we feel we must come to terms with them somehow. So we've developed systems that help us do that in ways that work for us, but those says ways vastly differ and do not work for the next person. It's just us trying to make sense of our lives, and history and how we fit in and how it all fits together. Tough stuff.
Sometimes I think the key aphorism that sums up religion or spiritual life is simply "Get over yourself."
Prior to any actualization of that suggestion, religion is complicated, important, paradoxical, argumentative, anguished, self-referential, financially-challenged, solemn, well-dressed, profound, bling-obsessed, top-heavy with texts, and ... well, you fill in the blanks. Simplicity is not well-regarded because, of course, I am not simple....
Just thinking out loud ....
Because we are selfish.....
@Shoshin you nailed it,
And we invent religions to try and help us with this. Except it can have the opposite effect. !
You can't "love thy neighbour" by force. It's a spontaneous thing.
We could probably start with being honest with ourselves. "I'm a totally selfish rascal!"
Off the bat, I'd say it's very hard for people to be good to each other. That usually involves giving in some way. People are great at taking, but lousy at giving.
Self-centeredness, mostly. We humans tend to over estimate the boundaries of what we can legitimately influence or control (like, the minds and hearts of other people).
ETA: Heck, we have humans projecting their 'self' onto the cosmos, the same ones anticipating God smiting America thanks to SCOTUS okaying equal marriage rights.
Sometimes all of us overly cherish our individual quirks and preferences, and elevate them into objective truths that apply to other people(s). We are big headed, that way.
I understand this to be papanca in action. Pretty much, if it's more complicated than 'get over yourself and be good to other beings', there is evidence of self-insertion and bargaining goin' on.
Mindfulness and insight practice uncovers those sneaky little 'requirements' so the practitioner can let go of that which tries to pretend 'selflessness' in service to preserving some aspect of self.
Exactly so.
Most religions, humanism and just common sense leads us to this approach.
Ajahn brahm summerizes five precepts in one of his video as
'No harm to oneself and no harm to others'
It looks pretty concise to me.
Well, just look how the Buddha started out. He was trying to find out the most simple, pragmatic thing: how to make people suffer less. Not even to stop suffering altogether or to discover each individual suffering.
Turns out, when you get into the nitty gritty of it, it gets much more complex. Telling people to be good to each other is alright as long as you realize how tough it actually is to do.
Many tragic things have happened despite good intentions.
Yes indeed we are too complicated. But it sometimes take a struggle to behave like a human being. Some people are sculpted by the suffering in their life, some prefer tormeting themselves with spiritual discipline.
Because many of the most heinous actions in human history have at one time been justified as being "good" for other people. Good needs a little definition, I think.
Why do we humans like to build complicated systems?
-It seems to me most of the time we are complicated...
True, it's really incredible just how far gone some humans are. That they can kill mercilessly and believe it's the right thing to do.
I like the Dalai Lama when he said something to this regard.
You can believe what you want, as long as you don't hurt anyone.
Something like that.
It's interesting that this thread was revived after a month. I tend to be naive, and sometimes I believe humans are inherently good. I forget how complex they are and how we should always be careful when it comes to others' actions and ideas, right?
'just be kind to each other' is perhaps even simpler and probably what you mean and intend at heart ...
People are simplified, not made simple by kindness. Doing good is very complicated. People may take even a kind act as malign and find an unkind act is something to be grateful for ...
Even kindness and good intentions are complicated by recipients ...
... hey Manjushri did you chop your own arm off? tsk tsk ... These well meaning bodhis with their two edged swords ...
When we talk about things, Buddhism included, some tend to make them complex.
The more circumspect, the more complicated, the greater the the opportunity to obfuscate until the presenter can make whatever the original statement seem to say exactly what the he or she want's it to say, even if it really says the exact opposite.
Now that was clear as mud but it covered the ground.
Darn, the tea grew feet again.