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WWBD (what would Buddha do) about terrorism?

karastikarasti BreathingMinnesota Veteran

I read the HHDL's statement about the Paris attacks. Obviously, we can only control ourselves, and peace truly does start with us creating it in our hearts, and then our families, and extending it outward. I can have compassion for people who do horrible things, understanding they come from a place of deep and horribly suffering.

But then what? If TNH, HHDL, Pema Chodron, all the notable spiritual leaders in Buddhism and other compassion-based traditions were to sit down and work out a plan for how to handle a global (or even single country) response to terrorism, what would it be? How would Buddha suggest we handle this?

I am not a fan of war and bombing. It's heart breaking to see us make the same mistakes over and over again. But what to do instead? You can't exactly offer to meditate with ISIS and people with that kind of mindset. So what practical things can actually be done on a large scale to force/inflict change without using violence? I truly wonder what Buddha and Jesus and Mohammed etc would do.

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Comments

  • I don't think Buddha could do much about terrorism. 'You can't fix samsara'

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    Well, no. But if we aren't supposed to fight wars, what are we supposed to do instead when faced with things like ISIS/terrorism or other major problems that impact many countries? Continuing to let them harm people doesn't seem to be the right answer. But how to stop them otherwise without creating more hated and more violence in the mean time? If HHDL etc. are going to suggest we not fight. Then what ARE they suggesting we do on a larger scale?

    masterpeace
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited November 2015

    I think there are some records of Buddhas conversation with soldiers in the Pali Canon.

    Another thought is that there are worse (or comparable) problems in the world than terrorism which we also do very little about.

  • NamadaNamada Veteran
    edited November 2015

    You need weapons for defence against terrorists, you cant be like Ghandi, they dont care, they will kill you without hestiating. Only option is to run fast or to kill them first or be killed. Its the same with World War 2, if the allaies didnt use weapons against Hitler, he would rule the world. Terrorists are not humans, but zombies with totaly wrong view.

    To attack them with bombing, like France and Russia do right now , will only make more terrorist, and not reduce their numbers, they are not a nation, but terrorists are located diffrent places. So many cevilianse will be killed or badly injured, Russia and France are obiously making it even worser.

    To cure terrorism is not possible, there are always some reasons to hate each other. The Paris attack are only peace of cake compared to the war in Syria, things like this happen in Syria everyday, so we in the west are not protected against this. The best thing is to stay calm and grove goods seed everyday. If a terror attack happen were we are, we need to defend ourself as best we can.

    What would Buddha do? he would move far away, he was very strict with what kind of people he would try to help, if they didnt want to listen to him, he didnt care, they were then not ready for his teachings, so he would try to stay away I guess.

    rohitsilvermerx
  • EarthninjaEarthninja Wanderer West Australia Veteran

    The reason people do anything is for their own happiness,
    Even murderers get a rush out of overpowering somebody else. It all starts with that deep innate desire to be happy.
    Terrorists are the same, they get a sense of fulfilment out of these acts. And couple this with religious belief in an afterlife, we have problems :/

    Humans will never get along if they see their beliefs as real. You can't force anybody to question their beliefs.
    It's much easier to question other peoples belief than our own. Therein lies the problem.
    It's selfishness, based on the idea we are a separate entity. This entity has beliefs and wants good things for itself. If that clashes with others... Well...

    I don't think there is a recorded time in history where we have all got along. It really is up to each individual to wake the $&%# up. Question ourselves.
    But this won't happen while we are too busy trying to fix the world...

    Buddha would just point to what is. That's all he can do. He has already done this but nobody cares to look.

    rohitsilvermerx
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    @Jeffrey yes, I realize there are other problems, but I am talking specifically about how to deal with people who will wantonly attack and kill others. It was in direct response to the HHDL's brief comment (I'll put a link below) and my thought of "ok, yes, but what do we do?"

    @Namada I disagree with you that terrorists aren't humans. They are still humans. They may have gone horribly astray from their nature, but a number of us would have too had we been raised in the same conditions as them.

    @Earthninja The answer, of course, always lies in ourselves. As Buddhists we look at ourselves (or we should be). I do. I don't' have it all figured out by far, lol, but I look at my views and beliefs and reasons for them quite a lot.

    Myself, I am fine cultivating peace and kindness within my life. If doing so gets me killed, I am ok with that. I would defend my children, however. I don't believe a person or a group of people can solve the problem of peace in humanity. That isn't where we come from and we seem an awfully long ways away.

    But my response (in thought) to what the HHDL said was "well, yeah, that's easy to say, bu tit gives us nothing as nations to do practically to solve the problem without violence." War and terrorism won't end if Obama meditates more.

    @Dakini your answer is more what I had in mind, thank you for seeing what I meant, lol. That kind of solution seems to make the most sense, and seems to be what we should investing in as well. To give people who are most risk of joining the ranks of terrorists something else in their lives, to give them a way to support their families, to give them a life. Instead it seems we are more about taking lives away whether indirectly or by destroying so much infrastructure that there is nothing for them to work with.

    If one were able to provide enough positive support, a "way out" so to speak, would that make groups like ISIS eventually moot? Would they cease to matter because their ways of recruiting would be such a draw? It seems like it would be a good start. And is practical.

    Here is HHDL's statement:
    http://www.dw.com/en/dalai-lama-on-paris-attacks-work-for-peace-and-dont-expect-help-from-god-and-governments/a-18852858

    Oneness, harmony, stop justifying killing each other,differences are all superficial....

    Of course. But that does not help us make practical solutions. Those kinds of values reached via meditation or other practices of course are able to help us find more kind and workable solutions. I just would be interested to see what the "big ones" in the compassion world would do BEYOND themselves to contribute to solving some of these big problems.

  • @karasti I Agree with you, animal and plants dosent kill inocent people for a religious belife system, only humans can do so.

    merx
  • WalkerWalker Veteran
    edited November 2015

    The elephant in the room with regards to the Middle East in general is oil. We need to completely revamp our economies and ways of living to wean ourselves off the stuff. As long as we keep doing things the same way (suburbia, big box shopping, 3000 mile caesar salads, etc.) we will need Middle Eastern oil. And access to reliable, cheap oil means asserting control over the region. Very few of us are willing to even talk about the changes that would be necessary to change that reality.

    karasti
  • RE: his statement, I don't think that one of the problems is an "obsession" with economic growth. The problem is not spreading the economic development around, equitably, especially to the people who most need it.

    The DL made a very different statement after 9/11. He said that sometimes, striking back with violence is justified. He has also said that if he'd had the chance, he would have killed Hitler, knowing (in hindsight) what his regime was doing.

  • NamadaNamada Veteran
    edited November 2015

    Why are they terroists? Is it because of their religion? Or is it because they need to hate someone and are just using Islam as a pretext for violence?

    If we know them better and know more about the root cause for their actions, then it can be a chance to do something about it?

    merx
  • Here's some information that is not specific to a particular strategy but nonetheless is informative:

    http://www.beyondthenet.net/thedway/soldier.htm

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran
    edited November 2015

    @Namada I think it's a lot more complex than that. Just like some people take Christianity and twist it all up and use it to do hateful things, so have some people done to Muslim. Religion doesn't make people violent. Their minds do. Their situations, conditions, causes mess up their minds and they see nothing else. They no longer see clearly. Not that most of us do, but at least we know clarity is there somewhere. They are conditioned to believe someone is an enemy and that the world would be better off without them.

    What creates a terrorist has a number of root causes, I think. @Dakini touched on one. I'm sure there are more. Poverty is a very big contributing factor that drives people to desperate states. So is abuse. How much do these people feel abused first by the leaders of their countries and then by the western world? It's like gangs-it makes no sense to us, but to them having a sense of loyalty to someone is really important. Standing together against an enemy in their mind gives them importance. And their sense of what that means is very, very off because they've never had anyone to show them otherwise and "role models" mean something else entirely in their worlds.

    We need to stop abusing people. But, we also need to start seeing those who do horrible wrongs as people who suffer and need help, and I think that's a pretty hard stance for most people to accept.

    JeffreyNamadaWalkermerx
  • One thing to consider is that you only get in the position to have an effect on military and diplomacy if you devote your effort to get into that position. If Buddha were here today I doubt he would have devoted his effort to become a politician etc. I think he would again be a spiritual teacher. So the Buddha were he here today would not have political authority other than his words of advice just as is the case with HHDL, the Karmapa, or Thich Nhat Hanh.

    WalkerpersonNamada
  • personperson Where is my mind? 'Merica! Veteran

    I'm in agreement with @Jeffrey here.

    I heard a story about Nagarjuna, that he prayed that he wouldn't find himself in a position where he would be responsible for the safety of others so he wouldn't be faced with having to make such difficult and potentially harmful choices.

    I suppose you could infer from that, that if he did find himself responsible that he might make harmful choices because of his responsibility.

    I think for most of us pacifists we should stick to improving ourselves and helping those in our sphere of influence.

    The question of what governments should do probably arises from wanting to persuade or defend others of a political position.

    It seems like the US suffers the equivalent of a Paris attack probably every year from mass school shootings, so while our law enforcement and intelligence agencies should keep up the work of defense, I think there is time to take a longer term approach to resolving the middle east conflict through less aggressive measures. Being less dependent on oil would also be a huge help so we could actually put pressure on Saudi Arabia to do something, it seems to me like the hornets nest is there and all actions outside of the country is superficial and temporary.

  • CinorjerCinorjer Veteran
    edited November 2015

    If the Dharma had an answer on how to keep war and terrorism from your doorsteps, then it wouldn't have been driven from India by the Huns and later Muslim invaders.

    What would Buddha do? He'd help the survivors to the best of his ability, no matter what their religion.

    WalkerDakini
  • @karasti said:

    I am not a fan of war and bombing. It's heart breaking to see us make the same mistakes over and over again. But what to do instead? You can't exactly offer to meditate with ISIS and people with that kind of mindset. So what practical things can actually be done on a large scale to force/inflict change without using violence? I truly wonder what Buddha and Jesus and Mohammed etc would do.

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and get naked.

    In 2007, my wife was raped while in prison. It was a guard, and all the evidence miraculously disappeared. Witnesses recanted their testimony. Long story short - he walked. I was visiting my wife immediately after the verdict and a guard, a friend of the rapist, escorted me back. While we waited in a small enclosure with two entrances waiting for the three seconds between one door locking and the other unlocking he asked me, "So how are you going to satisfy your wife when she comes home - now that she's had a real man?" Twenty months later she sat in front of the two women and one man that made up the parole board and they denied her parole. They cited, amongst other things, that they believed that she was somehow complicit in her own rape.

    Loving kindness went out the window.

    I had dreams, waking and otherwise in which I plotted revenge. I nurtured violent visualizations. I was special ops in the military; I know how to break people. I dreamed of kidnapping the parole board's children and breaking them. I dreamed of turning them into prostitutes, drug addicts and killers. I dreamed of them going to prison and having the members of the parole board realize, perhaps for the first time, that these are people behind those bars. They are not animals - they're human beings just like their own children.

    I didn't, of course. I knew how though and that tortured me. No, their kids didn't deserve it - but either did my wife. Either did I. Thirty years of incredibly imperfect practice stopped me. And that was the only thing that did.

    Powerlessness and hopelessness took me, a person who is all about love, kindness and happiness and bring him to the razors edge of insanity and terrorism. These people are powerless and hopeless. All that is left for them is to make their perceived tormentors hurt. I understand that. Three and a half years waiting for disability that the governor's kid would have had three years ago reminds me daily.

    Give them hope. Give them the power to create a life for themselves and their families that is on the other side of abject poverty, pain and despair.

    Ajahn Brahm wrote a short story on 'how to stop an insurgency' that I think is worth considering here:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=azs6AwAAQBAJ&pg=PT75&dq=how+to+stop+an+insurgency+ajahn+brahm&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZpKL6jqjJAhXQRYgKHS2bAJwQ6AEIHTAA#v=onepage&q=how to stop an insurgency ajahn brahm&f=false

    karastiJeffreylobsterRina290
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    @yagr Thank you. Hugs to you and your wife! Thank you for the link, I will check it out in just a minute.

    I agree with you.

    I was thinking also that we talk here often about "what brought you to Buddhism?" and it got me wondering what brings them to ISIS or Boko Haram, or whatever. Most people who change course are looking for something, many of us changed course and got here, or other places on our way to here, trying to find answers, solve problems, cope with difficult situations. I imagine those groups provide an option, provide an answer. It's not the answer we'd hope to see, but as you said, one of hopelessness. Not just an overall societal view, but from an individual place of seeking answers, which we all do. And this is what presents as a valid option.

    There's just so much pain in the world. I am helping refugees as I am able. I'm not sure how to help others, yet. It seems like so little. But one more person with clothing, furniture, supplies, an annual bus pass is one more than there was not long ago.

    Walkeryagrlobstermerx
  • WWBD (what would Buddha do) about terrorism?

    The Buddha would suggest working on our terror, need to terrorise those who terrorise us and tendency to want to save the world instead of ourself ...
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Poisoned_Arrow

    When you have worked our how to 'do something' about terrorism ...
    we can start on:

    • ignorance
    • poverty
    • starvation
    • injustice
    • disease

    etc etc

    yagrShoshinhow
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited November 2015

    @federica said:

    Is, I believe, what the Buddha would do, at a meeting of the UN, when all the necessary representatives of World Powers were present.

    Iz plan!

    The Lucis Trust still send me info about the UN, triangles, World Goodwill. They are an esoteric Christian group that holds meetings in London, around the world and at the UN
    https://www.lucistrust.org/world_goodwill/un_wg

  • rohitrohit Maharrashtra Veteran

    Buddha would have visit suadi king and converted him to Buddhism.

    CinorjerAjeevakDharmanasilvermerx
  • Turkey shots down Russian warplane today, war against terror at its best, what will happen next?

  • Russia is apparently taking the opportunity to bomb not just ISIS, but other Muslim tribes that have caused their boy Al-Assad problems over the years. Some of them live along the Turkish border and sounds like Putin continues his contempt for any borders but his own. It's a mess, isn't it?

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    Makes sense to fight war with more war, right? "I see your war, and raise you one more war."

    I can't imagine the terror the citizens live with between Al Assad, ISIS and bombings from other countries. Horrible.

  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited November 2015

    @karasti said:
    Makes sense to fight war with more war, right? "I see your war, and raise you one more war."

    I can't imagine the terror the citizens live with between Al Assad, ISIS and bombings from other countries. Horrible.

    Also, Russia now has stepped up its bombing, in retaliation for their plane being sabotaged in Egypt. Except....ISIL, or whoever, said the Russian plane bombing was in retaliation for Russia's involvement in Syria.

    Where is Ghandi when you need him? "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind". This is where we're at--an endless vicious cycle making the whole world blind. And....dead.

    Violence does not beget peace. You'd think it would be a no-brainer.

    dhammachickyagr
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    And then you have China who declared war on ISIS as well over several it's citizens being killed by ISIS.
    It's fast turning into a world war.

    merx
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited November 2015

    I couldn't quote you, karasti . But that's what I was thinking: is this what WW3 is going to look like? High-tech countries doing the bombing, while low-tech insurgent groups retaliate via terrorism? I think heads of state need to meet in a group to come up with a better solution.

    China? What attacks have there been on Chinese citizens? The Uighurs aren't that rabid, are they?

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    ISIS had held hostage a Chinese man and a Norweigan, and they executed them both. Also, 3 Chinese were killed in the attack in Mali (though I thought Al Qaeda took credit for that one?).

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran
    edited November 2015

    This just about sums it all up......

    Say 'it' again

    dhammachickJeffreyWalker
  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `     ` `     ` Outa Range Fridays thru Sundays South Carolina, USA Veteran
    edited November 2015

    (Note: not written to any Buddhist, so if you please, choir, kindly disregard.) =)

    What more can a Buddha do to combat the seeds of terrorism than he or she has already done? That, to me, is a very interesting question, the answer to which would fill the whole of one's life. The very core teachings of a Buddha or a Christ point out that our creature comforts, security, status symbols, and accepted beliefs get in the way of our getting a real handle on justice.

    One aspect of terrorism that bothers me most is the lethal force that the police forces across the USA are so quick to inflict on young people of color (and 7-year-olds with toy guns) —all in the name of "feeling threatened." It seems all too subjectivistic —all this "feelings" mush.

    The Lord Buddha and the Lord Jesus taught compassion, a sort of standing under things and seeing things [objects other than ourselves] from a more intimate aspect [objective feelings]. That understanding, that compassionate urge to understand (rather than judge or condemn others), is what they taught.

    What did Buddha teach? Buddha would introspect deeply so as not to allow himself either wrong thoughts or knee-jerk reactions to perpetrations of violence. Metta —thoughts absorbed in some degree in loving-kindness— is the only way out of this nightmare into daylight.

    Teaching those of extreme proclivities that thinking and theory is one thing: and what that thinking and theory actually represent is quite another thing altogether —is also a vital step in the education process. Namely, all people of sound mind and good will everywhere OUGHT to invest their time pursuing clarity and truth, rather than reaching out (whether in thought only or in deed) in desperate acts of destruction of things they are lacking in any truly noble purpose to understand.

    Of course, military bombing campaigns and the like DO NOT meet the above criterion of seeking clarity and truth and avoiding desperate measures (or countermeasures) such as the chaotic and random acts of violence that the ISIS extremists engage in. It seems to me that the Buddha, in today's situation, would definitely warn the extremists such as those in the political right spectrums against broad warfare and mass bombardments into foreign parts. It hasn't done any good yet.

    THE MODERN PROBLEM, of course, is that we cannot understand why these extremist destroyers feel themselves to be some kind of new moral nobility. Unless perhaps those calling the shots for the Western governments should go too far... A lot of the pent-up energy of ISIL/ISIS is trying to weaken the European establishment that broke up the old caliphates and such, and that must be borne in mind by sober leaders and not ignored by grandstanding vote-seekers.

    Buddha would have us listen, listen, listen and not rush, rush, rush.

    robotCinorjer
  • rohitrohit Maharrashtra Veteran
    edited November 2015

    One minsister had asked buddha that 'does peace menas that he need to drop his weapons and allow viloent people without punishment' Buddha told that the violent and criminal people should get punishment and he need not to drop weapons to punish criminals.

    But the question is that who allowed to have a such situation. When usa bombed iraq on fake claims of chemical and nuclear weapons. No european country opposed it. May be france was only one to oppose that crime of usa. Afterwards usa grabbed oil resources of iraq . the son of former president bush got oil refinaries in Iraq. Even now the picture is really clear that usa does not having any problem of Isis but europeans are getting migrants to there countries .

    Eye for an eye make whole world blind. Does it means that criminals should harm our eye and we keep quite to avoid more roit. If you do that then only criminals would left with eye and all innocent with no eye.

  • howhow Veteran
    edited November 2015

    One can wring one's hands and impotently ruminate over the tragedy of the ISIS offensive (gee, I wonder who would like to see us doing that)
    or
    one can rise out of the comfort of our armchair and actually do something about it.

    Perhaps even manifest some of that compassion/sympathy/tenderness/empathy/ love and benevolence that sometimes gets so eloquently spoken of on this site.

    Offer help to those displaced refugees of this war.
    Volunteer to take them where they need to go.
    Help them navigate the various levels of officialdom which is not in their language.
    Donate what you no longer need to help them settle in.
    Figure out which of your skill sets could actually make their lives easier and offer it.

    While I don't claim any clairvoyance over what the Buddha might or might not have said about today's terrorism, I am pretty sure that the folks most pleased about our armchair quarterbacking would be ISIS themselves.

    Your call.

    lobsterCinorjerWalkerVastmind
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Yes, @rohit I would also like the link to this statement, thanks..... :)

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Thanks. :)

  • rohitrohit Maharrashtra Veteran

    @dhammarato said:

    @rohit said:
    One minsister had asked buddha that 'does peace menas that he need to drop his weapons and allow viloent people without punishment' Buddha told that the violent and criminal people should get punishment and he need not to drop weapons to punish criminals.

    Any Pali cannon refferences for this extreem claim about the Buddha? See MN 86 for a contridiction of your claim.

    https://books.google.co.in/books?id=7-LMkge_hdgC&pg=PA170&lpg=PA170&dq=buddha+said+that+criminal+should+be&source=bl&ots=g_pxJ2zUdC&sig=E17-g45NYuj4UkRVvKO42FDo6nQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj3_JHopKvJAhWBUo4KHSmYDAsQ6AEIETAD

  • rohitrohit Maharrashtra Veteran
    edited November 2015

    @dhammarato said:
    @rohit, This refference you sent is not up to the standards that you yourself use. It is a modern author telling an old story. And 16 kings all at once, what year was that and are there names for any of these so called kings? Do you know any of the names of the kings that the Buddha actually knew?

    Surely your faith is strong, but it needs to be balanced with logic and plain seeing. Try for something actually in the Pali cannon. Give me a real target, not fake. This is especially true because of the claims you make are so outragous! Rolling on the floor with the Buddhas, laughing right out loud outragious. ROTFWTB

    I used to follow a nepali theravada monk. This story i read was from nibbana.com i guess. But i would like to learn from you through this site. Is there any book to start learning basics of pali myself? Thanks very much.

  • rohitrohit Maharrashtra Veteran
    edited November 2015

    @dhammarato what are your opinion on jataka tales in marathi translated books. Many time I use those stories to understand the worldly life. For example when I think that bieng over kind and polite is going to harm onself if we are dealing with people who do not need help but just taking benefit of our goodness. Jataka tales should be read or not?

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Moderator note: @dhammarato , @rohit - _Please continue this discussion privately. as you are steering the thread off-topic. Thanks. _

  • WWBD (what would Buddha do) about terrorism?

    As far as I understand it the Buddha taught that we are ineffective and often counter productive until we deal with our inner conflict. We need a course of jhana jihad.

    This is very different to the terrorism of Moses and his forged tablets, Jihadhi Jesus and his ultimate imprisonment and death for insurrection and god whisperer Mohammad and his idol bashing and military campaigning. [ too wikid o:) ]

    The Buddha [PBUH] suggested attaining equanimity and calm within as our primary overiding counter terrorism strategy.

  • In Mahayana Buddhism (Tibetan and Zen), the way you overcome suffering in the world is to focus harder on quickly attaining enlightenment, so that you can then help others become free from suffering.

    The First Noble Truth is that suffering exists. This is a truth, and you cannot escape it except through enlightenment.

    What would Buddha do about terrorism? Feel great compassion and increase efforts to assist others to work towards enlightenment.
    What would Pema Chodron do? Work even harder for attaining enlightenment so she COULD help others.

    Nirvana
  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `     ` `     ` Outa Range Fridays thru Sundays South Carolina, USA Veteran

    @FoibleFull said:
    What would Buddha do about terrorism? Feel great compassion and increase efforts to assist others to work towards enlightenment.
    What would Pema Chodron do? Work even harder for attaining enlightenment so she COULD help others.

    @FoibleFull, attaining some kind of enlightenment (whether quickly or no) is indeed essential to escaping the whirlpool of the worldly barrage of 24/7 hype.

    To be enlightened is to have an ego whose center is small and whose circumference is not truly locatable —and is also to be free from out-of-control hostile thoughts and actions.

    All acts of random violence (and also targeted governmental violence without great scrutiny and prior study) are forms of terrorism; and adept Buddhist practitioners would "increase efforts to assist others to work towards" alternate ways of confronting violence shown towards them and those who are in need of finding better ways.

    Having a lot more enlightened folks among all the religions is the only answer. My friend's friend's Parrot says, "That's what they call a No-Brainer."

    On the other hand, the nations gearing up for war and bombing, among many other pitfalls, will include the following: It's like what the monkey said when he was peeing on the cash register, "That'll run into SOME money."

  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `     ` `     ` Outa Range Fridays thru Sundays South Carolina, USA Veteran

    Sorry, but I just can't understand headlines such as in the New York Times, "F.B.I. Treating Rampage **[in San Bernardino] **as Terrorist Act" http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/05/us/tashfeen-malik-islamic-state.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=span-ab-top-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

    What could it be but terrorism, whether affiliated with another group or not? That is my question. I mean, people with body armor break into a place brandishing weaponry and killing people. Doesn't sound like a pastime or random act of cruelty to me.

    Viruses and other pathogens need not belong to the same species for us to group them in the same inimical category.

    What is this idiocy gripping the human race, that cannot call a spade a spade? Terrorism is just the setting aside of all decency and decorum to spread terror —plain and simple. It need not be affiliated with the IRA or with ISIS or any other group.

    What would Buddha do and say? What should Buddhists do?

    I think they should spread the BuddhaDharma.

    What does the BuddhaDharma teach? That there is a skillful way to go through life and one that is very unskillful. And that those who are most skillful should lead the way and should not overreact to those who are very unskillful. For that would be a mistake.

  • @Nirvana said:
    What would Buddha do and say? What should Buddhists do?

    I think they should spread the BuddhaDharma.

    Indeed.
    We all want to jump up and down and scream, 'kill the murderers'. On occasion the Buddha was in a position to preach to potential combatants, sometimes succesfully, sometimes not.

    Those conflicted spread their presence and we too have a calmer being to offer [theoretically].

    Can we calm the desire to hit back against atrocities? With practice I feel we can ...

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    @Nirvana For law enforcement purposes, the FBI and similar agencies have very strict and technical definitions for terrorism. Obviously, anyone who terrorizes people in such a way are terrorists. But for legal purposes and allocation of resources and direction of investigation, their definitions are more strict and different. Every mass shooting is an act of terrorism, to the victims and our whole society. But not under law enforcement definition.

  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited December 2015

    @Nirvana said:
    Sorry, but I just can't understand headlines such as in the New York Times, "F.B.I. Treating Rampage **[in San Bernardino] **as Terrorist Act" http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/05/us/tashfeen-malik-islamic-state.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=span-ab-top-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

    What could it be but terrorism, whether affiliated with another group or not? That is my question. I mean, people with body armor break into a place brandishing weaponry and killing people. Doesn't sound like a pastime or random act of cruelty to me.

    Viruses and other pathogens need not belong to the same species for us to group them in the same inimical category.

    What is this idiocy gripping the human race, that cannot call a spade a spade? Terrorism is just the setting aside of all decency and decorum to spread terror —plain and simple. It need not be affiliated with the IRA or with ISIS or any other group.

    What would Buddha do and say? What should Buddhists do?

    I think they should spread the BuddhaDharma.

    What does the BuddhaDharma teach? That there is a skillful way to go through life and one that is very unskillful. And that those who are most skillful should lead the way and should not overreact to those who are very unskillful. For that would be a mistake.

    What they were trying to determine in the beginning is whether it was a case of "domestic terrorism" (like the Timothy McVeigh case, the Weather Underground, and others), vs. international Islamic terrorism. IMO, they were wise to not risk raising a false alarm, potentially causing hysteria. Once you give in to fear and hysteria, the enemy has won.

    The fact is, it was some of both; the main perp had had a problem for some time. with one of his co-workers who was Jewish and had a hostile anti-Islam blog on the internet. As he was nursing his anger, he was plugged into internet info posted by ISIS, and had some kind of communication with people who are believed to have ties with terrorist movements, but acted on his own initiative. That's what I got from the reports. We should be grateful that the authorities have been cautious in drawing conclusions, and thorough in their investigation.

    Buddhism, after all, is partly about seeing things as they are and not jumping to conclusions. It's about leaving behind the illusions that cause us to jump to conclusions.

  • merxmerx estonia New

    @karasti said:

    I am not a fan of war and bombing. It's heart breaking to see us make the same mistakes over and over again. But what to do instead? You can't exactly offer to meditate with ISIS and people with that kind of mindset. So what practical things can actually be done on a large scale to force/inflict change without using violence? I truly wonder what Buddha and Jesus and Mohammed etc would do.

    They would say:You will love yourself and eachother and everybody will happy. =) =)

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @karasti said: I am not a fan of war and bombing. It's heart breaking to see us make the same mistakes over and over again. But what to do instead? You can't exactly offer to meditate with ISIS and people with that kind of mindset. So what practical things can actually be done on a large scale to force/inflict change without using violence? I truly wonder what Buddha and Jesus and Mohammed etc would do.

    Mohammed would applaud, stating that these warriors are following his very word and killing infidels. Remember he was around during a time when war, conquest and overcoming the enemy was effected by hand-to-hand combat, strategy and conditions not affected by modern 21st century means (and all that it entails).
    So in that mindset, his thoughts would in all probability match theirs.

    Jesus was seem by some as a passive terrorist, one intent on causing waves by being verbally turbulent; he too was governed by times when another nation wielded power over his. Therefore while maybe not contributing or taking physical part, he understood what it was to live in conflicted times. He knew exactly what to say to create a schism, and did so on several occasions.
    Hence his untimely end at the hands of his own people.

    Buddha?
    We already know, or a pretty confident, in what he would say.
    So these three then, would not make equal companions round the table, in talks of peace and ending conflict.

    Steve_B
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