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teachers
JohnMac
DrScotland Veteran
What does it mean, really, to have a Teacher? Can you, for example, read the teachings of say, Lama Zopa, and decide that he is going to be ones Teacher? I.e the figure to which one feels most strongly drawn, perhaps due to some karmic link?
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Comments
@JohnMac -- For whatever it's worth, my teacher once said, "Except for me, everything is the teacher." But that may not be responsive to the OP question. Basically, I think you're about right: Pick your poison, pick your friends.
Practice has a way of responding to the question.
That's what I'm hoping. ..
Good question.
I usually find 'being most strongly drawn' is of little consequence as most people don't know what to look for and assume they are teachable.
Most people don't want to learn, they want to be validated. If that is your game, many 'teachers' will play with you. Anyone genuine will not. So the skilfull question is what qualities are required to be teachable?
Ask that. Seek that ... and lo and behold, cushion, dharma teaching present all along.
That's kind of what meant but I type as I think instead of the other way around. I'm coming from the premise that one does not need validation and that there is a genuine and pure attraction.
There is indeed genuine and pure attraction BUT we have to do the preliminaries. I would suggest practically any dharma web site, any book, any nun/monk/lama can teach us the means to an ethical and disciplined life practice. Celebrity teacher not required. Fairy dust not required.
Application required. Apply within.
Yes, true. I'm struggling with the whole teacher thing, again, at the moment. However, the Buddha left many Teachers.....
@JohnMac -- I'd be wary of that premise. Hope and belief -- pretty nifty validators -- push things along at the start. They inspire. They get students off the dime. They carry the woo-hoo fire that translates talk to walk. They put gas/petrol in the tank.
Genuine and pure, like contrived and muddied, are part of a landscape that is not so necessary. High hopes and great expectations ... well, that and a couple of dollars will get you a bus ride. Just practice.
Just my two cents.
Hmm mm mm thinking thinking.....
@JohnMac
Our ego/ identity/ selfish self is our immersion in the stream of our own ignorance.
The best chance of developing some perspective of that stream that controls us requires some alternative to us remaining subject to it's inertia.
A mediocre Buddhist teacher will have you contest the inertia of that stream.
Here the practice alternates between brief insights of stream surfacing s followed with repeated dunkings again.
A good Buddhist teacher, however, simply points to shore. These teachers never need to be had.
So just having a teacher is not necessarily the same as walking the path towards suffering's cessation.
I advise paying less attention to what you may be drawn to (which may well be just another part of your stream) and more to whether his or her followers seem to have made their own way well into shore, or not.
Yes, i get that. Definitely. Thanks
A lot of it is down to feeling a personal connection, which can be a bit hit and miss. Some people stick with one teacher while other people move around a number of teachers and learn what they can. The other approach is to think about which Buddhist school appeals and then investigate teachers in that tradition. Teachers can only point you in the right direction of course.
Yes, true. I am thinking more about a proper, determinate course of practice under a teacher, otherwise, i fear going off at various tangents
Are there any Buddhist groups in your local area?
Ah, you see, this is much of the problem. I live on an isolated island. ....I'm trying to solve the teacher issue and ensure that what I'm doing is right. Being left to ones own devices is a blessing I suppose, but doubt runs riot.
There's lots of Youtube talks by Buddhist teachers - are there any that appeal to you? Another option might be to travel to do a retreat somewhere.
Indeed, I have studied Pema Chodron, Lama Zopa, and Thubten Chodron, all of which resonate strongly. I am saving for a retreat, however it's more the day to day practice i need directions with. I think, unless. ....The validity of Internet teachings bothers me too....
I find it very helpful to have a flesh and blood individual who guides my practice and with whom I can openly talk about my thoughts, feelings and experiences, without holding anything back. I am blessed to have that at this point in my life and am infinitely grateful to my teacher for having helped me through very confusing and daring periods of my life.
If one day, through some unfortunate circumstances, I found myself separated from my teacher, I would look very, very hard for another, while forever keeping my original one in my heart. Also, I like the term "spiritual friend" better than "teacher" because that does not imply hierarchy and subordination.
I sincerely wish to everyone to have a guiding, friendly figure like that in their lives, as I do not know of any greater fortune than that.
A teacher is someone at whose feet you can literally, physically sit, and take lessons and guidance from them (generally along with several other people).
They are not an online source, not a book. They are a person.
A teacher is one who knows more than you do, does it better, and is a good example to you for how to be. They inspire you, they are tolerant and accepting of your flaws and even your errors/ignorance.
Almost always they are an ordained Buddhist monk or nun, and ALWAYS they have been given the task of teaching. Self-appointed teachers are not considered to be suitable as teachers.
Even if your teacher lives far away, or only comes to visit you dharma group once/twice a year, the benefit is huge. Travel, if you need to, to see your teacher ... instead of going to warm Mexico for a week in the middle of winter, travel to take a teaching retreat from your teacher.
There is something about taking teachings in person that teaches you in subliminal ways, osmotically absorbing knowledge, that you cannot pick up from vids or written information.
If you are not able to go see a teacher, and it there are not teachers where you live, do what you can on your own. By doing so, you are creating karmas for HAVING a teacher, and they will bear fruit at some time. When you are ready to make use and progress with a teacher.
My sister, a practicing Buddhist for over 20 years, suffered from a concussion SO severe she could no longer go to teachings (she could not ride in cars because of the jostling on her brain). A Tibetan Rinpoche moved into her apartment building and so she no longer had to miss teachings because she could not travel (she was not able to ide in a car for 5 months!).
True enough and difficult to describe. It is called Barakah in Sufism, Grace in Christianity, Blessing in Tantra, Darshan in Yoga etc. It is why I spent as much time as I could with my teacher. He never taught me anything in terms of information or spirituality. Rather he embodied the essence of all the traditions ...
The important thing is being able to recognise this subtle potential. We do this through preparation, not increasing greed for the teacher.
In the Sufi tradition we say, 'the teacher is always present'. In other words it is us who are absent.
“Ready are you? What know you of ready? For eight hundred years have I trained Jedi. My own counsel will I keep on who is to be trained. A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. This one a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away… to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph. Adventure. Heh. Excitement. Heh. A Jedi craves not these things. You are reckless.”
Bodhi Yoda
Yes, there is a definite advantage with face-to-face contact.
Thank you Foiblefull, i think you have got it. I suppose I'm creating karma for a rinpoche to move to my Island! That would be grand!
@JohnMac -- A face-to-face teacher is probably just one step on the road to recovery -- off the meditation cushion and back into the world you never left. It has a get-real capacity to it. Face-to-face after face-to-face and pretty soon all this lead-and-follow stuff has the opportunity to drop away. And it's important that it should: You are you; the teacher is the teacher ... no big deal; it's just the lay of the land. Your job is just to leave the teacher behind, so to speak, much as his/her job is to leave you behind, so to speak.
In this way, no one gets left behind.
Love it, great answer
When the pupil is ready...The Master will appear
Every Buddhist teacher is for me a potential teacher regardless of whether "I" comes across them, in person,(attend a Dharma talk) on film,(watch a youtube clip) or in a book,
The teacher can give you a method to practice and you can try to understand that method and try it.
It is important to consider your motivations for wanting a teacher.
Good answer @Shoshin
The idea is brought even further in this traditional Buddhist teaching from Tibet
http://web.archive.org/web/20060720060729/http://pages.britishlibrary.net/edjason/eight/
I prefer the terms 'teacher' or 'mentor' to the term 'master'. Semantics perhaps, but you serve a master but you learn from a mentor or teacher. You choose your mentors or teachers in Buddhism.
As @jeffery points out, there are poster or postcard 'Masters' who seem to talk the talk but are '..an inch thick and a mile wide'. If you look past the flash, they are easy to spot.
A good teacher, a good mentor will be a guide along the path, along your journey.
Well said @Lionduck
Always look past the superficial.
The term 'spiritual friend' is sometimes used in Dharma. In this sense the mentor is not there to exploit others, for example 'masters' of self interest such as Chogyam Trungpa, Sogyal Rinpoche or other self servers. The primary motivation or expression of service is present. In other words making oneself redundant.
There you have it.
Is a teacher surrounded by co-dependents [teacher-student co-dependency] or practicing with a mixture of beginners, fellow far shore dwellers, no co-dependents, those who have gone beyond ...
http://www.thenakedmonk.com/2013/06/09/inconvenience-of-doubt/
Investigate your teacher. Good luck.
I'm investigating some right Now!
P.s i particularly liked the naked monk link, thank you, thought provoking
I went on retreat with Sogyal Rinpoche and didn't find him "self-serving", just too preoccupied with young ladies.
^^^ Many list both individuals as teachers or their teachers teacher. Many find great comfort and benefit in their work. So at best they are tradesmen. They have something to offer: spiritual techniques, retreats, lectures, community, insights, books etc.
What do they get in return? Should you ask?
The lower classes of society are those who fatten themselves in life in the name of religion.
Bodhi Ibn el_mubarak
http://spiritualfriend.com/quote-of-the-week.htm
Too wikid?
I'm looking for a teacher simply because it seems impossible to progress in the tibetan tradition without one. I'm happy to be corrected.....
Bravo! I couldn't correct a watch showing the local time ... however ...
... You can begin practicing to prepare. Open practices/sadhana, in one sense they are all open, are available.
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/advanced/tantra/level1_getting_started/practicing_tantra_effectively/transcript_3.html
Dear Lobster, you are spot on again. I am practicing to practice, as it were, my fear is going off at various tangents as matters progress. I have a terrible fear of ' doing it wrong'. Irrational, perhaps I worry too much,.
I read somewhere that a good teacher will admit they learn just as much from their students than vice-versa. Maybe that applies to a spiritual teacher as well?
I would hope So!
I hope not. I expect teachers to know more than I do, at least.
Nobody starts by 'doing it right'. I am an experienced expert on doing it wrong ... just don't worry about Ms Takes ...
Soon you will have to tell me how to do it right.
Iz plan ...
Normally, it means you meet with them in person and have some kind of personal relationship with them. This way, they can teach you what is correct for you personally. In other words, they are able to give you teaching that is specific to your own individual practice.
I occasionally still attend Triratna meditation classes, and some of the Order Members leading them are well, not all that good at explaining things. Once or twice I've had to resist the urge to stand up and offer to take over.
LOL
Do not be tempted by the dark side @SpinyNorman
Being mindful in the presence of ignorance is a teaching, as some yoda muppet intimated ...
Mum-in-law has a phrase for people like that: 'Couldn't organize a piss-up in a pub'
My head hurts now
@JohnMac -- You might want to consider where you imagine you might "progress" to and who, precisely, defines that realm.
I'd just like to know that what I'm doing is right and to do a bit more.., by a bit more i mean progress .....i don't think i could learn nuclear physics without a teacher either!
@JohnMac -- So you equate Buddhism at its most important as being somehow difficult and outside your current ken?
Yes.. In a word
This sounds like a useful thing to know about yourself. If this is the case, then all you'll need to do is read up on your topic, ponder its intricacies and connect-the-dot explications and then ... voila! you'll be doing it right and all will be revealed. E=mc2 ... no problemo.
Sorry. Just a little teasing. But there is a serious element to it all as well. It is natural, after a lifetime of figuring things out to bring the intellect to bear on whatever current problem crops up. The fly in the ointment is, as Swami Vivekananda pointed out, "the mind [he meant the intellect] is a good servant and a poor master." The good servant knows which drawer contains the spoons and can fetch you one in a trice... a very capable fellow. But if studying up and knowing where the spoon drawer was actually cracked any of life's nuts, we'd all be in the pink.
Unfortunately, the question is left hanging: "Who is the good master?" or "If I'm so smart, how come I'm not happy?" The intellect and collections of knowledge may assist in cracking serious nuts, but if getting or doing things "right" is used as a yardstick ... well, oh dear!
It's probably easier and more fruitful to credit Buddhism with the reminder, "mistakes R us." Which does anyone learn more from, his/her perfections or his/her mistakes? And if the answer is "from the mistakes," it is hard not to wonder whether the perception of what a mistake might actually be isn't a bit screwy.
No point in playing the dummy, obviously. But equally obviously, no point in imagining that the doofus gene has at last been excised or that it would be better if you actually could excise it.
Just noodling.