I hate Buddhism but I can't live without it.
dooksta123
Explorer
I don't like having the constant idea in my head that life is suffering and that anything I gain in this life is pointless (as my monk put it). I've been an on and off Buddhist for three years thanks to the fluctuation of my feelings towards it. One day I'm all like 'Buddhism is amazing! I don't have to care about stuff that doesn't matter! I can relax!' and then sometimes THE NEXT DAY I'll be having "huge misunderstanding" that I know I misunderstand but I can get rid of it that I believe that Buddhism is about either suffering through realms of samsara being miserable for eternity or spend my whole life separate from everything so I can disappear in order to not feel pain. I know this is the wrong view, but please people, I'm not looking for answers like 'I need medical help,' or 'I need a teacher (which I have and couldn't find a new one so far),' and ESPECIALLY I don't want the answer 'You don't understand this' and then not explaining what is wrong and what is right. I've had issues for all three years with this idea of a 'burn or die' mentality. Please correct me. No one has for three years.
Comments
Your dilemma has horns.
My take on this is as follows:
Of course life is suffering. It is also joy and fun. Some folks, like your monk friend, get hug up on the suffering part.
It is not the 'things' you gain in life, but the attachment to them is what I hope your monk friend was trying to say. Enjoy your 'things', but remember that they are transient, often ephemeral.
a. Your sparkling humdinger will age, decay, may get crunched.
b. Your lease on current emanation will expire and all the goodies will pass to others.
c. 'Things' are not what brings true joy, contentment, happiness, etc.
It is certainly not an issue of what is 'wrong' vs what is 'right'.
Your life, all life, is a treasure beyond all measure.
We all have our little and not so little imperfections. So what?
You'll undoubtedly get a lot more, in probably great detail from fellow participants on this forum.
Peace to you
Peace to all
Why are you blaming Buddhism for your problems? And what sort of teacher is telling you that life is pointless, or that life is suffering? Buddha taught the problem is, people are suffering when they don't have to. That's a far cry from the thumbnail and wrong translation of "Life is Suffering". Also life isn't pointless. Your life has whatever meaning you give to it. It's up to you, to decide your purpose in life.
If you want a dialog, I'm sure we can provide one. Maybe we can give you some pointers to help out. We should start by making sure you are actually practicing Buddhism.
@dooksta123 It sounds like you are becoming aware of "monkey mind"
@dooksta123
I don't know if my view will help where so many others have apparently not, but...
this is really just about the difference between the egos/identities story line
and
what is left as we learn to stop habitually supporting that story.
Our identity says our very existence is defined by our innate separateness from the rest of existence.
A practice that no longer supports our ego's habituated "self verses others" story line, eventually shows each of us to be little more than just temporary compilations of karma inertia that can either be resolved or not.
Not resolving that karmic inertia through our habituated clinging, rejecting or ignoring of phenomena, creates our sense of dissatisfaction.
Resolving that karmic inertia through not clinging, rejecting or the ignoring of
phenomena, disolves our sense of dissatisfaction.
That's all.
And one more thing, I understand it's all my fault and not Buddhism. Perhaps I could talk to someone and explain what I think Buddhism is and see what I got wrong.
@how
Didn't really understand that at all.
Find a practice.
Practice it.
Bitch as necessary.
Another thing is how do I motivate myself at work when I find money and things pointless? Ever since Bhante Gunaratana told me in Mindfulness in Plain English that pleasure is empty, that's how I've felt, accompanied by guilt whenever I try to enjoy life. So why even get out of bed? And I understand I'm depressed and it's being taken care of but I want a Buddhist answer to finding a way to want to be successful. I go to meetings for my insurance business and everyone is so motivated to be rich and I'm all here like 'I just don't want to work fast food.' I feel left out with everyone taking care of themselves and I don't even care. I do want to start my own charity, either to take care of the homeless or to help with world disasters, but I just can't push myself ever since my monk taught me on day 1 that I need to turn my emotions off and become nothing... When does the happiness start? I've already tried 'not forcing' and 'not expecting anything' and I gave up on that. My efforts to be detached is only making me a stagnant vegetable.
When you stop whining and start doing. You can be as kool and sincere and heart-felt as you like, but until you add some actual, practicing experience to the mix, you might as well go back to high school.
Buddhism for me is not really so much of an understanding, as a manifestation of the Buddha's teachings.
Perhaps you could explain to us how the 4NT & 8 FP either fits into your life
or doesn't?
I'll listen ... especially as it is your fault and I can not be blamed ...
Also I would love to know what Buddhism is (if anything). We stagnant vegetables have a right to know ...
Have you watched videos of Mooji on youtube?
@how
I see the four noble truths as a way of saying that life isn't worth living and that stress should be avoided as well as pleasure because everything essentially leads to suffering. And I see it as 'if I'm enjoying life, I'm doing it wrong.' I know all my views are wrong but I've had some miscommunications with some monks from day 1 and I still am confused. And thus I've come to you guys for whatever wisdom I can get a hold of. I also see Buddhism that if I don't do everything all the way then I'm doing it wrong. I want to go out and be successful but it all seems meaningless when I've come to a reasoning that doing well in life and enjoying pleasure is going against the meaning of life. And I do feel that way. I've become both anhedonic and nihilistic because of my misunderstanding. My monk told me nothing's worth doing because it'll all disappear in the end and I feel that's the truth. I just want that peace of mind but I also want to LIVE. I have no idea what I'm doing.
Thanks for being willing to help as well, guys.
I've seen a couple videos but I've grown to be suspicious of any wisdom that isn't from a Buddhist source. After months of an Osho addiction, after hearing about his 99 Rolls Royce, I was devastated by his cultishness and my heart was broken and now I stick with Ajahn Brahm. Although I could use some new online monks, if they have Ajahn Brahms style... Or even if they don't. I'll try to be open-minded.
Sigh. Maybe reading The Buddha's life story would help you get a grip on what it's really all about? Shrug. For lack of anything constructive to say like @how and @Lionduck (their responses rezzed the most w/me), I suggest that you read his biography Old Path White Clouds by Master TNH. It really brought the Buddha and his teachings to life for me.
Indeed.
Good idea. So far so good ...
What?! ... No plan? Can we not start living? [can't wait for advice on how to live ... how exciting ...]
@silver Great point! I've read the story a few times, even taught it to my friends, but a reread would hurt.
@Lionduck Great answer. Definitely "rezzes" with me.
@lobster You are my spirit animal.
Mooji deals with the issue of what you do when you are no longer motivated by money/success and so forth in some of his talks. My guru Shenpen Hookham recommended him to me (a Mooji talk which I cannot find) to me and she (Lama Shenpen) is from a traditional lineage in Tibetan Buddhism so I guess you could say she can vouch for Mooji.
Here's Lama Shenpen's educational facebook page if you want to take a look. Not sure if she talks about anything of interest to you. https://www.facebook.com/BuddhismConnect/
Maybe read some Pema Chodron. Buddhism isn't really about happiness to be honest. It is about understanding the mind. I guess it depends what you mean by happiness, but it it is not about getting something better than now to have in the future.
That sounds so awful, though. I have such a good life story (even though I'm sort of immobilized in a pit right now) and I have a lot of new stories to make! But I also want to remain Buddhist because it makes life easier and I know it's the truth. When I think of ending the ego, I think of pitch-black darkness. Buddhism from my eyes is the most depressing outlook on life there is... but the problem is that it's not wrong...
Maybe I'd be happier if I've come to an understanding that Buddhism isn't about happiness? Maybe I'm trying to hard in the wrong direction. But I'll probably burn out of that really quickly. Pema Chodron covers that Buddhism isn't about happiness, I guess?
And could someone here verify that Buddhism isn't about happiness?
But seriously, why would I want to be Buddhist if it isn't about being happy?
It depends what you mean by happiness. There isn't a happiness other than what is right here. Which is not to say that there won't be variations in our feelings with time. I don't know it depends what teacher you have. Pema Chodron specifically says that the meditation she teaches is not about special states. It is right here whatever is here: sit with difficult states, nothing special, be your unconditional friend, sit with what is here, see clearly etc. Other meditation methods might be trying for special states. There is wide variation in Buddhism. If you think it is about happiness then you're going to have a lot of times when you think 'I must be doing it wrong'.
Do you practice Vipashana or meditation?. I was thinking like you too before to practice meditation sometimes.
Such happens because we just have read scriptures or rules of Buddhism and accepted it at intellectual level when we start.
But when we practice meditation we understand all these knowledge through experience then even scriptures is not needed as much.
I think you meant to say that it wouldn't hurt to re-read it.....
Over on another forum that I visit regularly, they're 'conversing' about this 'split-mind' business -- I wonder if that's what you're suffering from.
You want to start a charity. That's always been my dream, too. Maybe you could apply your work skills to someone else's charity, or go to evening school to get qualified to work at a charitable foundation.
OR: be the best you can be in your profession, get promotions, sock away those paychecks while continuing to live modestly, invest the money wisely, and in 10 or 15 years, you might have enough to start your own charity! Or you could find partners to start one with, pooling your funds with a few others. Make this your goal. Everything you do will go toward that goal. What a wonderful goal!
The Buddha said somewhere (sorry, I don't have sutras at my fingertips) that one should use one's talents in the service of the Dharma and ending suffering for others. In other words: you have skills and talents. Make the most of them, and apply the results to benefit others in whatever way works for you.
See? Feel better? THAT is Buddhism.
Monks practicing in the old world Asian style often don't understand or appreciate the needs and psychology of people living in the modern world and what makes sense for them doesn't work for us. I would recommend spending time focusing on reading books and teachings from westerners.
Most of the world lives in a different way than a Buddhist would, focusing on accumulating career points and party socializing. So in practicing the path your goals will change, there will be some difficulty adjusting to new life goals and you may find you won't fit in as well with the majority of the world. But as these things fall away new joys and an increasing ease with life eventually sets in. Sangha is helpful in making this transition as they are in the same boat, so finding a group of like minded people will help a lot.
A
Guys, my understanding of Buddhism is LITERALLY my biggest fear. It's gotten to the point where I've been metally hospitalized MULTIPLE TIMES!!! I have no idea what to do!!!!!!
Don't think more. mud settles down when water becomes still.
I think you meant to say Anxiety! You sound like you are suffering from anxiety attacks. I know I do. Once you learn what triggers them, you learn to avoid them by not thinking about or on them. That's how you fix this thing. In short: You're driving yourself crazy.
Yes, I was going to say it sounds like you have an anxiety disorder. Go to your doctor to get a blood workup. You may have a hormonal imbalance, or some other condition causing this. Maybe your parasympathetic nervous system isn't working properly, to keep you calm. Depending on the results of testing, your doc can recommend where to go next.
BTW, you must have been evaluated in the hospital, especially after multiple hospitalizations. What was the upshot of the evaluation?
Moderator Note:
If I have to issue the reminder - yet again - that this forum is not a place where medical or therapy advice is given, I will.
@dooksta123 , we are not here to remedy what ails you mentally.
This is a Buddhist forum.
Your mental conditions are such that you need to discuss your concerns with your Medical advisers.
Take the medication they prescribe, religiously, do precisely as they suggest and take your treatment as prescribed.
As for Buddhism, I am convinced that you perceive it in a certain 'warped View' because of your mental afflictions.
It's not that you don't understand Buddhism.
It's that in your irrational mental state, you CAN'T understand it.
Buddhism will not fix what ails you, and you cannot digest Buddhism and what it teaches - until YOU fix what ails you.
I have to agree with @federica mate. Having read a number of your posts over the last couple of months you seem to swing from joy / emthusiasm to not wanting to get out of bed.
I think you need to be discussing this with a therapist. We won't be a great help to you I feel.
Good luck!
It sounds like there is a lot of complex stuff going on with you. You my not understand Buddhism well if you are coping with anxiety and other things. Worry about Buddhism after you get those things under control. Buddhism isn't going anywhere
I think you are thinking too much about it rather than experiencing it, and I don't know if you are able to be open to experiencing it just now.
I first "found" Buddhism when I was 22 and in college, in a world religions class. It immediately "spoke" to me, but I could not get past the idea that life is suffering. I had no resources other than college library books and my ability to understand was greatly lacking. I couldn't comprehend that Buddhism was at once a religion of peace and kindness while seeing everything as misery. My understand was grossly incorrect. I know differently now because I was at a better place in my life to pick it up again. I set it down and didn't revisit it for several years. Thankfully, it was still there when I was ready
@dooksta123 maybe the distinction I am trying to make about happiness is that Buddhism isn't entirely about the 'symptom' of happiness, but rather it is necessarily also about the CAUSES of happiness. And Buddhism is not only about the 'symptom' of suffering but is also about the CAUSES of suffering.
The less attachment you have towards "self", the less you will cling. The less you cling, the less suffering you will have. Life may be suffering, most of it is because we created it for our "self".
It is easy to misunderstand what is meant by "suffering". I am not saying that is the case here. But that misunderstanding has been a roadblock for me from time to time.
@Gui, that's interesting, are you more comfortable now with the concept of what is meant by 'suffering', or would you like to start a new thread?
@federica, I am. I try to always replace the word suffering with dukkha when it relates to Buddhism. I don't always remember to do that. But when I do, I am reminded that suffering is dukkha and happiness, or even just not suffering, is dukkha. I think I would like to start a new thread once I collect my thoughts.
Have to echo everyone else. We can give you encouragement when you're struggling, but all you have to say is you're having a hard time in your life right now. If your leg was hurting, you'd know there's something wrong with your leg that a doctor needs to treat with medical care. But when your mind is hurting, it's hard to accept there's something wrong that needs the medical care of a doctor.
As for Buddhism, people can and do misuse it by twisting its words. I have a feeling for you, the biggest concept to comprehend is impermanence. Your low points will pass. You will eventually feel better. Nothing lasts forever and the one constant is change.
I have to concur 100% with @federica . Also it sounds to me like you are mixing Nihilism with Buddhism and are missing the point as well.
http://www.tricycle.com/insights/bliss-product?utm_source=Tricycle&utm_campaign=f253667afc-Daily_Dharma_January_31_201601_31_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1641abe55e-f253667afc-307236489
"Bliss is a by-product"
This mixed with what the moderator said, I think I really do need to see a doctor and get some type of mood stabilizer so I can better understand Buddhism. I can't fill my glass if it's broken.
I wish you well @dooksta123!
Thank you much, @Bunks.