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five aggregates

can anyone explain the difference between 'five aggregates of clinging' and 'five aggregates'

(the aggregates are form, feeling. perception, volition and consciousness)

Comments

  • howhow Veteran
    edited April 2016

    @upekka

    I am not sure what your question is here? From the view from this zafu....

    The 5 aggregates are simply the 5 Buddhist avenues by which all possible human life can be experienced.

    Our karmic inertia (the first noble truth) coalesce around these 5 aggregates as the only manifestations of life that can be clung to.

    The more interesting distinction between them to explore (that often causes confusion) is that these 5 aggregates themselves always remain innately void, unstained & pure
    regardless of whether we experience them through sufferings causes or through suffering's transcendence.

    Unfortunately, actually experiencing the differences between the aggregates and our own clinging seems conditional to how ego bound or ego free, we are at any moment.

    Shoshinupekka
  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran
    edited April 2016

    @upekka said:
    can anyone explain the difference between 'five aggregates of clinging' and 'five aggregates'

    (the aggregates are form, feeling. perception, volition and consciousness)

    In a nutshell ( Though you may need to explore the entire nut tree for more in depth understanding)

    The first lot are thirsty "Taṇhā" and the others are not/no longer thirsty :) ...

    The clinging aggregates are those caught up in the habitual behaviour patterns"sankhara"

    The non-clinging are just their non-conditioning natural state, that goes with the flow ...

    "Aneka jāti samsāraṃ sandha vissam anibhissam
    Gahakaraka gavesanto dukkhajāti punappunam
    Gahakaraka ditthosi puna geham nakahasi
    Sabba te phasuka bagga gahakutam visamkhatam
    Visamkhāragatam cittam tanhanam khayamajjhaga"

    "'Seeking but not finding the housebuilder,
    I have traveled through the round of countless births.
    How painful is birth over and over again.
    Oh housebuilder! You have now been caught!
    You shall not build a house again.
    Your rafters have been broken. Your ridgepole demolished.
    The unconditioned consciousness has been attained.
    And every kind of craving has been uprooted and destroyed.'
    (Dhammapāda, verses 153,154)"

    personupekka
  • pegembarapegembara Veteran
    edited April 2016

    For a self to exist, one has to take ownership of one or more of the five aggregates. Taking ownership is the clinging referred to.

    To understand how this happens, we have to look more closely at how suffering arises — or, in other words, how khandhas become clinging-khandhas.

    When khandhas are experienced, the process of fabrication normally doesn't simply stop there. If attention focuses on the khandhas' attractive features — beautiful forms, pleasant feelings, etc. — it can give rise to passion and delight (§36). This passion and delight can take many forms, but the most tenacious is the habitual act of fabricating a sense of me or mine, identifying with a particular khandha (or set of khandhas) or claiming possession of it.

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/study/khandha.html

    "An uninstructed, run-of-the-mill person — who has no regard for noble ones, is not well-versed or disciplined in their Dhamma; who has no regard for people of integrity, is not well-versed or disciplined in their Dhamma — assumes form to be the self, or the self as possessing form, or form as in the self, or the self as in form.

    "He assumes feeling to be the self…

    "He assumes perception to be the self…

    "He assumes fabrications to be the self…

    "He assumes consciousness to be the self, or the self as possessing consciousness, or consciousness as in the self, or the self as in consciousness."

    — SN 22.85

    upekkasilver
  • namarupanamarupa Veteran
    edited April 2016

    I believe they are the same. "Clinging aggregates" is just another way to say "five aggregates" based on this study guide.

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/study/khandha.html

  • Ignore my previous post. After reading further they are different. Based on how @pegembara describes it.

  • upekkaupekka Veteran

    @namarupa said:
    Ignore my previous post. After reading further they are different. Based on how @pegembara describes it.

    good that you have noticed they are different

    can you point out what are the differences you have noticed?
    we all can learn from it, thanks

  • A clinging aggregate would be describing a type of aggregate where a seed is sown for future karma. An aggregate by itself would not sow any seeds on its own I believe.

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