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Giving/dana

i say, 'we need to practice giving in order to practice Insight Meditation or any meditation'

how far can you agree to above statement

giving can be materials, advice, offering to listen to someone's problem, paying attention to what someone has to say without arguing or offering one's advice etc.

CinorjerVastmind

Comments

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    @upekka ...
    i say, 'we need to practice giving in order to practice Insight Meditation or any meditation'

    ...The other way round also works :)

    FosdickVastmindmarcitko
  • @upekka said:
    giving can be materials, advice, offering to listen to someone's problem, paying attention to what someone has to say without arguing or offering one's advice etc.

    Yes.
    That advice methodology is used by the Samaritans, 'Rogerian Councelling'.

    It is not the only skilfull dana. It is suitable for monks and beginners.

    Real dana involves offering opportunities for other to practice dana, as the sangha does. It may also entail giving 'impacts' that move people on in their practice. In this sense it might have 'wrathful' aspects.

    So generosity has a range of possibilities ...

    personVastmind
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited April 2016

    I would say the neat thing about some of the paramitas like dana is that you can practice them even at times when you aren't really doing any meditation or reading (for whatever reason). You can still not harm others or give to them.

    lobster
  • pegembarapegembara Veteran
    edited April 2016

    How about giving (up) our body, feelings, memories, emotions, attachments, fears and thoughts, basically giving everything away? That too is giving.

    lobsterShoshinVastmindkarasti
  • howhow Veteran

    @uppeka
    i say, 'we need to practice giving in order to practice Insight Meditation or any meditation'

    There are as many forms of giving as there are expressions of meditation.

    A practice of giving, like a practice of meditation, can serve different masters.
    These masters can unfold as selflessness or the selfish self.
    Your true intent in either practice determines the results.

    If a Buddhist meditation or a practice of giving, manifests as the dissipation of the boundaries between self and other, then I'd call it a path towards suffering's cessation.
    If a Buddhist meditation or the practice of giving, manifests as the solidification of the
    boundaries between self and other, then I'd simply call it a path towards suffering's cause.

    lobsterperson
  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran
    edited April 2016

    @pegembara said:
    How about giving (up) our body, feelings, memories, emotions, attachments, fears and thoughts, basically giving everything away? That too is giving.

    There is such a thing of "giving" away too much, in which case giving becomes a form of avoiding our responsibilities. Some things are ours to carry and transform, like difficult memories which may drop away when we are done with them.

    I find it is more beautiful to give of our time and our insight to try to help others. Often it is the burdens you carry that lead to the hard won wisdom of tomorrow.

  • @Kerome said:

    @pegembara said:
    How about giving (up) our body, feelings, memories, emotions, attachments, fears and thoughts, basically giving everything away? That too is giving.

    There is such a thing of "giving" away too much, in which case giving becomes a form of avoiding our responsibilities. Some things are ours to carry and transform, like difficult memories which may drop away when we are done with them.

    >
    In truth, you are not actually giving away anything since none of those things are yours in the first place. I am not saying there is anything wrong in taking up the responsibilities but realise that there is no end to them. That is precisely the nature of samsara.

    I find it is more beautiful to give of our time and our insight to try to help others. Often it is the burdens you carry that lead to the hard won wisdom of tomorrow.

    I agree. Read this advice from Patrul Rinpoche.
    http://sealevel.ns.ca/patrul/

  • @pegembara said:
    How about giving (up) our body, feelings, memories, emotions, attachments, fears and thoughts, basically giving everything away? That too is giving.

    <3

    Well said.
    That is a high calling but definitely the plan.

    One of the ways to practice this is refuge prostrations. Another is through 'giving them up' during meditation or mindfulness ... and where possible not reattaching.
    http://opcoa.st/09qSc-56e48

  • SwaroopSwaroop India Veteran

    @lobster said:

    @pegembara said:
    How about giving (up) our body, feelings, memories, emotions, attachments, fears and thoughts, basically giving everything away? That too is giving.

    <3

    Well said.
    That is a high calling but definitely the plan.

    One of the ways to practice this is refuge prostrations. Another is through 'giving them up' during meditation or mindfulness ... and where possible not reattaching.
    http://opcoa.st/09qSc-56e48

    Giving up is not the same as giving. To qualify as giving there should be a receiver.

  • @Swaroop said:
    Giving up is not the same as giving. To qualify as giving there should be a receiver.

    There is.
    Ourselves.

    Swaroopyagr
  • SwaroopSwaroop India Veteran

    If you give up your dukka and then receive it you are back to square one aren't you @lobster ?

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    The act of Dana should begin with one's Thoughts>Words>Deeds....

    However the first and second are not always in sync with the third....where the action is performed but in a reluctant way ...(example Thinking to oneself "Bugger this ...why can't they do this themselves, can't they see I'm busy !" Speaking out loud " Why didn't you ask so & so to help you... I'll help you this time, but next time you will need to find somebody else! " 'Reluctance' ...

    Insight meditation helps bring all three into harmony...... so it pays to be generous and "Give it" the time of day.... :)

    "Mind is the forerunner of all mental states"

    karastiCinorjer
  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    @pegembara said:
    In truth, you are not actually giving away anything since none of those things are yours in the first place. I am not saying there is anything wrong in taking up the responsibilities but realise that there is no end to them. That is precisely the nature of samsara.

    My experience has been a little different. I find that with fear I tackle, each attachment I resolve, each feeling I come to grips with, my load becomes lighter and my understanding increases. Trying to give away these things has just led to them being unresolved and returning in another form. For me, it is better to just do the work.

    Perhaps that is a process that comes back in a future life, but in this life it feels like progress.

    Cinorjer
  • WalkerWalker Veteran

    @karasti said:

    We all get assistance in some forms, and to pretend we don't is just lying to ourselves. We just are not open and vulnerable with what we need and what we receive while others are.

    Yes, and it never ceases to amaze me when I hear right-wing types moan and complain about paying taxes. They rarely say anything about how much better their lives are because of such basic things like safe drinking water, sanitation, efficient transportation and communication systems, health care and education.

    CinorjerTravellerShoshinperson
  • At the same time, when religions focus on giving, it seems to be a corrupting influence because the church or temple focuses on giving to them, not others outside the group. Even if it's not the televangelist living a millionaire lifestyle with mansions and private jets, the church becomes a business with building plans and memberships. Even Buddhist groups fall into the trap, where for instance a recent scandal in the Korea pointed to some needed housecleaning.

    So when we talk Dana, I have to focus on the giving to those who cannot give anything in return. We're expected to help the Sangha, but maybe that's something different. It's our Sangha and we never really let go of the money. We demand it be spent for the bettering of the Sangha or to support the Teacher. That's a different type of giving than handing something to a stranger and walking away. Or giving a few hours of your time and work to cut the grass of the old woman across the street. Or giving the neighbor a ride to and from work while her car is being repaired.

    Shoshin
  • namarupanamarupa Veteran
    edited April 2016

    I feel they are two different things but both can be used to reach happiness. They might compliment one another, but I dont think they need eachother in order to develop. People who can't meditate can practice giving, and those that dont have enough to give can give by meditating. I prefer meditation because it is alot more accessable to me than giving. Although I do give donations quite often.

    Cinorjer
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    edited April 2016

    @Swaroop said:
    If you give up your dukka and then receive it you are back to square one aren't you @lobster ?

    No, not in this context I don't think. :)

    If you give up smoking, you receive benefit.
    If you give up ignorance, you receive benefit.
    If you give yourself a break, you receive.
    If you give up talking, you might receive the capacity to listen ... to yourself ...

    We are quite prepared to give to others but we have a primary duty to give ourselves - time, care, attention and the gift of giving up unneccessary behavours ...

    :)

    Swaroopyagr
  • pegembarapegembara Veteran
    edited April 2016

    @Kerome said:

    @pegembara said:
    In truth, you are not actually giving away anything since none of those things are yours in the first place. I am not saying there is anything wrong in taking up the responsibilities but realise that there is no end to them. That is precisely the nature of samsara.

    My experience has been a little different. I find that with fear I tackle, each attachment I resolve, each feeling I come to grips with, my load becomes lighter and my understanding increases. Trying to give away these things has just led to them being unresolved and returning in another form. For me, it is better to just do the work.

    Perhaps that is a process that comes back in a future life, but in this life it feels like progress.

    "Giving" when things are not resolved is not really giving. It is only pretend giving. The work is to understand why it is so difficult to give(up).

    lobster
  • upekkaupekka Veteran

    @Cinorjer said:
    Dana or giving was both preached by Buddha and not included in his 8-fold path specifically.

    Right Thought in 8-fold path is the highest giving

    CinorjerShoshinlobster
  • My experience has been a little different. I find that with fear I tackle, each attachment I resolve, each feeling I come to grips with, my load becomes lighter and my understanding increases. Trying to give away these things has just led to them being unresolved and returning in another form. For me, it is better to just do the work.

    Indeed. :)
    'Giving up' as in 'oh I give up', is avoiding the issue. It is as @pegembara says, 'pretend giving up'. We are releasing the bonds/fetters/attachments ...
    Create space in the mind. Find the unsettling in the mind. Let it be? Be with it? Understanding ...

    pegembara
  • personperson Where is my mind? 'Merica! Veteran

    Traditionally there are considered to be three forms of generosity.
    1)Giving of material aid
    2)Giving of protection from fear
    3)Giving of the Dharma

    Then when giving we should strive to give without pride or expectation of return. Its also best to give good quality items, not only things we don't want anyway. Not things obtained unethically, so Robin Hood wouldn't be a Buddhist hero. And its claimed that giving to certain types of people is better than others, so the poor, the saintly and our parents are above the average recipient.

    http://thubtenchodron.org/1993/11/giving-material-aid-freedom-from-fear-dharma/

    Cinorjerlobsterupekka
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