how dare I be unenlightened
Kale4Dayz
California Explorer
Today I was talking to this guy on campus and he asked me how I'm coping with the stress of my program. I said meditation helps. Then he asked, "Are you enlightened?" I immediately burst into laughter and loudly said, "NO!" My amusement quickly died though when the guy shot me a visibly offended look and mocked my response. "What do you mean NO?" There was an awkward pause because I couldn't believe this guy was serious.
So then I asked him, "Are YOU enlightened?", trying to deflect. And you know what he said? "Yes, I believe I am." I wish it ended there with me saying "Okaaaay..." and walking away but before I could, he proceeded to go on and on about the reasons why he knows he's "enlightened". I just let him have his say while inwardly groaning to myself. Shortly after that he invited me to join his yoga studio because of all the hot girls there. And then he got really offended AGAIN when I said I was too busy with school.
I don't have much of a point to make with this post except that people are really strange sometimes....
Comments
I remember some discussions I had as a student on a campus. One talking to some evangelical Christians a long discussion including where I talked about the the thumb of some animal I had read about in my philosophy textbook and as it related to evolution. Then talked to some Hari Krishnas about how I am polluted by eating meat and how the sun and every single thing has a spirit that animates it. And then another Hari Krishna at a different campus talking about how breath meditation can enlighten but that they had found a short cut of chanting Hari Krishnas name.
Just remember, everyone has Buddha nature, even that guy
But it doesn't sound like he has done the hard work to bring it out - wisdom can sometimes be found in strange places but this person sounds like they don't understand the process of enlightenment.
He is definitely enlightened.
Seriously, if someone considers themselves enlightened, good for them. No need to analyze their motives or actions.
I remember those days, sort of.
I was probably one of the strange ones.
More than probably.
I think Buddha himself when he became enlightened met a wandering spiritual person in a forest (who he did not know from previous) and he told the man that he had accomplished the spiritual goal. I forget the man's name but it is a traditional story and I think in the Pali Canon. The man's response was 'may it be so' and then the two went on their own ways. This lead Buddha to think that he not only had to say that he had reached 'the goal' but he also needed to have a way to explain it to others and he went on his way to deer park and formulated the 4NT and 8FP which he explained to his former friends (who were I guess all yogis who had practiced for years in exclusion of all else) at deer park in his first sermon.
I donno, some people.... it's either....
Or...
"Enlightenment" Pff......... so yesterday's news
My motto is, ''Enjoy the trip. Who cares about the destination? ''.
Speaking of hot girls/boys in yoga/meditation classes and getting offended.
Indeed.
Despite the likely deluded condition of ultra-yogi, it is a fair question.
Why aren't you enlightened? No more deflection.
I quite often come across people who feel enlightenment is impossible for them. That is not my experience. Others like our new age yogi feel that a bit of serotonin euphoria is sufficient to be termed enlightened ...
The term is easy to misuse. If someone doesn't display the signs of enlightenment, a deep understanding and a compassionate nature, and obviously is still a slave to their desires, why should I believe them when they call themselves 'enlightened'? I would be simultaneously happy for him that he does not feel the urge to chase that goal and is free to live an entirely natural life, and sad that he has missed the point of what enlightenment means and that there is a deeper level to self-exploration and realisation.
Just a question: Is it any more idiotic to consider yourself enlightened than it is to consider yourself unenlightened?
Is it ever skillfull to consider yourself something you are not?
Is it ever skilful to consider yourself 'anything'.....?
LOL
As we know samsara is nirvana, which is my experience. We may be here, there or idiotic but ultimately we are Buddhas (ay curumba! lobster faints)
If we are snoozzzzing Buddhas, pseudo-awakers or genuinely enlightened we have ourselves to blame. It is our karma.
The first task in dharma is 'Houston we have a problem' aka NT1 then we have the Noble Truth 2, something about causes ... the rest is dharma history ...
I am not sure I agree that samsara is nirvana. That's like saying phenomena understood are phenomena not understood.
Thank you all. I am amused (no disrespect intended).
Enlightened or not enlightened..eh!
I for one am just enjoying this hike...
Peace to all
It may be. Often considering yourself something is a gate to understanding, in the process of comparison new insights arise. It calls to mind Thich Nhat Hanh's teaching on emptiness, where he says that there is no such thing as an independent being, that you still carry with you your father, your mother, and that we are all part of a great interdependence.
So you're all of those things, you're something, but with 'Emptiness', you're everything, yet 'nothing' at all.
No wonder meditation unravels the Gordian knot.....
Let me tell you about one time when I witnessed a new guy asking Rev Young a similar question at one of his meditation classes in Florida, after a short talk on enlightenment, satori, etc, and before the meditation began. This one impressed me so much I wrote it in my journal that night.
(student, raising hand): "So are you enlightened?"
(Rev Young, cocking his head) "Hold on. Do you hear that? What is that?"
(student, listening for a minute) "I don't hear anything."
(Rev Young) "Neither do I. Are we ready to meditate now?"
Those off the wall questions are fun, if you like being a smartass.
Yes, that's it! Samsara and nirvana are only different in the relative sense, because they designate entirely different things. Again, in the ultimate sense, there is no difference, because of their emptiness. Everything is empty, including emptiness. Not two, not one.
Here is more on why the ultra yogi is enlightened or knot [sic] ... understanding the objective from our spiritual relatives ...
http://opcoa.st/09kRV
@Kale4Dayz
The frailest thing supporting enlightenment is anyone thinking it is possessable.
^^^possessable, passable or possible?
Ultimately irrelevant ... but for nows frailty ...