80 years old and depression
Namada
Veteran
My grandfather has been healthy all his life, but now when he is 80 years old, he started to devleop
depression. He punish himself all the time for not being able to live up to his high expectations.
Today I spoke with him, and he really suffer, his depression are a lot worser then I expected.
He could not sit still, he didnt know what to do.. He blamed himself for destryoing the funeral to his
sister, his plan was to give a very good speech and he couldnt do it.
But thats only tip of the iceberg
he blame himself for not maintaing his boat that he loved, and he blame himself for causing trouble for his wife, and many other things.
He now hate himself and dont know how to handle this, he is producing evil thoughts faster than I can speak, and he belive all of them are true.
I tried to introduce him to mindfullness and metta practice. I also told him its very good you are open about your problems, you can speak about it to as much as you want to me, and Iam there for you I told him.
I told my mother to call a doctor toomorow, so he can get mental help and medications, because he suffer alot.
Do any of you have simillar experience and thoughts about cases like this?
Comments
You have done the right thing @Namada , he needs professional help...Does he live alone or with family ? It's important for him to have love ones close by, especially ones like yourself who have a sympathetic ear...prepared to sit and just listen....Just being there for him will be a great help....
Metta
Good work. This is the correct course of action here. Depression is best treated by a professional.
I have struggled with depression myself and have also had the opportunity to work in the mental health field and help others as well. Everything your grandpa is experiencing is a normal symptom of having depression. I know it is difficult to watch him suffer like this, but you have done your part to help and that is what matters.
I wish you and your family all the best.
I think a therapist can help too. That idea about not living up to expectations. Medicine can affect a lot of things like how you feel in your mind and body but a therapist can give him a chance to talk about his experience with expectations.
@Shoshin Thanks for you comment
My grandfather lives with my grandmother, she is a very sympatic and lovely person, but she cant handle his depression much longer, so she suffer aswell.
@Glow Thank you for your kind words, I will try to do my best even though Iam not proffesional
@Jeffrey
He has visited a psychologist three or four times, but he didnt get really better so he didnt continue to go, but i belive he will need more visits to see some effect.
Its unfortunatly not only high expectations, its a mixture of many things, like blame, not forgiving what he have done, and also mourning of the loss of his sister.
So he carry a big bag of heavy things that drag him down in the mud.
Yes, the best solution would absolute be to not use medicine.
I have no experience with anti depressiva or medicine for mental issues, are there any help in them at all?
@Namada I think there can be benefit of anti-depressants. I was on them a short time. I don't think I had depression but I did have onset of schizophrenia and a lot of grief in a girl not reciprocating romantic feelings. Grief adapting to my illness and that dissapointment with the woman in my laboratory. I was in grad school doing chemistry research in a lab. The reason I say the anti-depressant helped was that things bothered me less. With depression sometimes you are more upset than is rational even if you do have some things of concern to you. Your brain is more upset and after taking meds sometimes the same thing happens and you are not as upset. But this is one reason some people don't like them because it is kind of 'insulation' and you can feel less alive. I only took anti-depressants for like 6 months and by that time I was done with the chemistry and working towards preparing for pharmacy school (which is another story... I still had the schizophrenia).
So I think they change how upset you get. For me I remember I broke I vacuum pump set up to some extent and I realized that if I wasn't on the medicine I would be a lot more upset. But it's definitely not an all plus 'happy pill'. There is drawback in how you feel. You feel a little bit drugged or 'insulated' as I say.
But I think the grief and blame themselves need to be looked at by him. Therapy doesn't fix you. The therapist doesn't fix you. You have to do the work yourself. It's up to you. The meds might make a less overwhelmed mind and the therapist kind of grounds you to 'what can be explained to someone else' and that has a grounding effect that brings you back to reality whereas the entire content of your mind can be spinning nowhere. When you have to explain to the therapist that limits the content of your mind to what is grounded and can be explained. Does that make sense?
I think this is really common in elderly people, he might want to look for someone who specializes in working with them. Even just asking a social worker, perhaps. My grandmother dealt with this many years. Lots of processing regrets, lots of guilt and shame, lots of sadness at loss of what she determined made a happy life for her. When they start to slow down and spend more time thinking and less time raising families and doing all those every day life things, those are the thoughts that creep in. But they can be managed. It is also a time when hormones in the body drop off heavily for a lot of people which contributes too, of course. I would definitely look for someone who works with older people, maybe find some resources for him via elder care or social services at a local hospital rather than just a standard psychologist.
Good call. Do you think he will accept some help?
He needs medicines. For meditation or even therapy to work the mental faculties should be functional. Because of his age your grandpa is likely to have some dementia as well. So psychiatric help is certainly needed. Medicines will calm him.
I have some friends with depression, and medication did not help them, in fact it made them more suicidal for several months after starting the drugs. Both have now come off the medicines and one regularly smokes weed, to help her calm down - and that seems to work for her.
There are many, many medications, all which will have different outcomes for different people. I'm not saying someone should take them no matter what. But sometimes they are necessary to get a grip on things and start to move forward, but it can take a while to find the right one and the right dosage. Unfortunately for a lot of people weed isn't available legally and may or may not be the best option for an elderly person.
@Namada
I had a friend whose job often consisted of prescribing meds for his depressed clientele.
With years of doing such a job, & a long established meditation practice under his belt and a depression sufferer himself, I asked him what criteria he used to choose one med over another.
He said with all his training, it often felt like a crap shoot where the clients, the playing field and the goal posts seldom remained consistent enough to have him do more than guess. He thought his best help was just being able to remain present and caring in the company of those clients.
There are a number of other threads on NB that have also dealt specifically with depression and some possible ways of facing it.
I think there are differences in meds that are observable like one med has less problem of weight gain. So if someone is gaining weight as a result of a med then you might try the one that has this typical pattern. That is an example. It could be having tremor or simply just not having a therapeutic effect. Dosage changes, 'off label' meds, and 'cocktails' of meds are also part of the tool box. In the future they might be able to look at your bodies genome (all the DNA that allow processes in your body to happen 'edit: interesting in a Buddhist forum I felt compelled not to anthropomorphically describe that'). Your DNA might suggest which meds to try. I find it a crap shoot in my experience but also like 'trying on clothes' in that presuming you didn't die from the med you can always stop it and try another.
I think, @Namada, that you have been doing what you could do, you are doing the right thing. It seems that he is in part dealing with the loss of his sister, the reality that he is not "young" anymore, his own mortality, etc. I assume that he and his sister were close.
If nothing else, he is going through a period of "grief and morning". Yes, a grief counselor would be helpful. Meds may or may not be necessary. I am not a Psychiatrist and can not, nor would I presume to make such a call.
Whatever the cause of his depression, your being there is a good thing.
While I am a "young" 68, having lost my brother (age 72), I did and do have the benefit of my Buddhist practice which did indeed provided the bridge over my chasm of loss and grief.
I know you will continue to be there for him, For that he is fortunate.
You and he have my prayers and wished for victory in this battle.
Peace to you
Peace to all
Thank you all for your advice and vice comments I really apreciate it!
I visited grandfather two days ago . He was in a little better mood than the last time I talked to him thankfully. I sat in the living room of his, and he talked about his sister who had passed away and he showed me letters that she had sent to him when she was only 15 years old, they were 60 years old letters. He became in a better mood right away, he talked also about all the trips he and my grandmother had been on, it was a good tone all the time during my visit. But the body is not as before , he said , and he can not do everything that he used to, but it is natural part of the life stages, so the reason he is depressed is to actually accept the nature...things dosent last forever.
After I left I felt better for him, I just realised he just need someone to talk to and not medications. Our family will visit him more and he will also visit a therapist.
So I belive he will be fine