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Self Realization
shanyin
Novice YoginSault Ontario Veteran
in Philosophy
Can someone explain self-realization?
According to google is is this: Self-realization is an expression used in psychology, spirituality, and Eastern religions. It is defined as the "fulfillment by oneself of the possibilities of one's character or personality."
Is that what Ramana Maharshi was all about? Is anyone here self realized?
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Comments
One: Nice definition.
Two: Haven't a clue. He died a while ago, but his Wiki-page is pretty comprehensive.
He was of course, Hindu, not Buddhist, so he had a belief in God which most Buddhists are unaccustomed to considering.
You've just asked a question about breathing techniques in Meditation.
Don't get too far ahead of yourself. This self-realization concept is immensely simple in theory, but is actually pretty 'advanced practitioner' stuff to get a grip on.
Don't over-complicate your life by trying to incorporate something this convoluted into it.
OK thank you.
Enlightenment is the end game of Buddhism. I prefer the term 'awakening'
Bodhi (Sanskrit, Pāli), from the verbal root budd, "to awaken", "to understand", means literally "to have woken up and understood".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightenment_in_Buddhism
Ay caramba! Sounds awful, especially considering my character and lacking personality. Heaven and Buddha save us ... OM MANI PEME HUM
Self-realization is the (realization, understanding, attainment) of one's true (potential, nature, self). It is the goal, such as it were, of all spiritual journeys. It's a term used to describe something because everything has to have a name, even if we can't agree on what it is we're naming or how to get there or what happens after that.
Self-realization for a Christian, for instance, is to understand you're a sinner like everyone else and saved only through the grace of Christ and accept him as your savior. Self-realization for a Zen Buddhist is to penetrate the emptiness of the self and the suchness of life. There are a thousand paths out there, maybe even as many as there are seekers, and each has their own definition of what self-realization means. So to ask for such a thing is pretty darn near impossible.
How can so many different spiritual paths end up at the same place? Because one way or another, the valid paths ask you to let go of your cherished beliefs on what you should be or want to be or are taught must be, and just be. I said valid, because there are fake paths leading to traps and pitfalls. Anyway, that's the best I can explain it to you. Hope it helped.
I wouldn't like to get into a pissing contest about it, but I think there is probably a different meaning to "self-realization" from a psychological and spiritual points of view. In psychology, getting down to the nitty-gritty of personality rates kudos.
But what does "self-realization" rate if it turns out that the "self" is just a fantasy ... a smoke and mirrors dream? If there is no dream, what happens when it "comes true?" Alternatively, if there is no dream, what happens when it "doesn't come true?"
All of this is great for beer-drinking discussion, but the down side is that it eats up time that might better be spent in practice. Beer drinking and BS is a lot less scary than practice, but you know what I mean ...
Uploaded on Jun 25, 2011
Mooji is asked about his experience concerning his own Self-realization. "Let all the rivers flow like they do; all of them will come to this ocean... you cannot escape this recognition." (Mooji) http://www.mooji.org
Uploaded on May 2, 2011
"Yes, the seeing is instant, the recognition can be instant, but it will take some time to stabilize the mind into the heart completely... almost you never come to the end of the possibilities of consciousness; yet, at the same time, you are aware that you are THAT which is beyond transformation ." (Mooji) http://www.mooji.org
As others have pointed out, a healthy ego is helpful BUT very little to do with spiritual/Buddhist awakening.
There are teachers like Mooji who talk about their personal awakening. Ideally a teacher is awake, otherwise they are armchair path walkers, no matter how dedicated.
Clearly charlatans attract huge benefits (power, easy pickings, prestige, sheeple followers etc). The results speak for themself.
I feel it is quite reasonable to work from a psychological but limited model if required and not jump beyond ones needs. Mental stability is not optional.
We hopefully are on a real path, not a fantasy escape into an alternative to genuine requirements ...
Your post reminds me, @lobster, about my main question always wriggling around in the back of my dark mind is who and how does anyone know who's the fake and who's the real deal when it comes to 'gurus' and such?
I think such persons would show no trace of greed or anger in them.
"And how is there the teacher's undoing? There is the case where a certain teacher[4] resorts to a secluded dwelling: a wilderness, the shade of a tree, a mountain, a glen, a hillside cave, a charnel ground, a forest grove, the open air, a heap of straw. While he is living thus secluded, brahmans & householders from town & countryside visit him. When they visit him, he gets smitten with things that infatuate, falls into greed, and reverts to luxury. This is called a teacher undone with a teacher's undoing. He has been struck down by evil, unskillful qualities that defile, that lead to further becoming, are troublesome, ripen in pain, and lead to future birth, aging, & death. Such is the teacher's undoing.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.122.than.html
Certain infamous gurus that are quite popular - even after death - who have angry personalities and makes me wonder.
It is interesting. I can imagine a teacher could have luxury without greed, for example if you don't go shopping or request things but just let it come to you. But it would be a pleasuring of the senses which would lead to sensual desire.
To what extent can one celebrate the beauty of the world, and appreciate it, without falling prey to the effects of sensual desire? Even something like a nature documentary on the Great Barrier Reef is a pleasure to one's sense of sight, in the colours, the movements, and more subtly in the mind, the appreciation of diversity.
I wake up each moment and methinks..."Oh here I am.".... that is, when I remember to wake up that it is I.
Or, is it "Here I am...hummm...it must be me"
Or, I and I...we's da same
However, I do realize I am myself...and it's hard to convince others that I am somebody different...but its still quite easy to convince myself that I am someone other than who I am.
I am bafaack....god I crack myself up...lol
Obviously....
One of my teachers was a street light. There are no 'false' street lights, when ready and prepared to listen, in other words when we are a genuine student, we can learn.
When we develop equinimity and discernment we are not bedazzled by platitudes, cliches, acting the part gnus, gurus and grrrs. In other words we look behind the mask from our own genuine attitude. This means we can learn from good people, frauds, cats, children, situations and most importantly our own falsity.
Each person on this forum has the capacity to be learned from. Does that make them a guru or us a potential student ...
... as usual multiple choice available ...
I think we just have to know we can go on with its passing. Because we are all temporary, I am better able to appreciate rather than take for granted.
It's easy to fake not being greedy and not feeling anger when you're surrounded by worshipers attending to your every whim. I met Da Free John one time (Franklin Johns, big man on the guru scene back in the 70s and 80s) and he positively radiated peace and enlightenment. He was also a huge con artist living off the hard work of his disciples, like all the other gurus of the time taking advantage of people's desire for the Truth.
If you want to know if a teacher is real or not, the only tip I have is to look at their disciples. The one thing the fake teachers will not share is enlightenment, because it's the one thing that makes them special. Their disciples never seem to achieve anything, do they? Then the guru would have to treat someone as equal and it would be competition.
Look how many of Buddha's followers were Arahants by the time he died. Suppose he'd told them that none of them were perfect like he was? The cult would have died when he did. Same as Da Free John's cult.
Exactly right. By their fruits they are known. Charismatic salesman end up impoverishing others. The genuine results in genuine empowering results. Look to the students, no-controversy, lack of bling etc. Circus and circuit gurus always attract a crowd. Buddha created teachers and a transmission.